OT "I'm Dealing With A Few Transgender Issues"

Discussion in 'Blazers OT Forum' started by ABM, Jun 29, 2021.

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  1. Phatguysrule

    Phatguysrule Well-Known Member

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    If they are winning at the highest level without violating the rules then good for them.
     
    Phatguysrule, May 23, 2024
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  2. Chris Craig

    Chris Craig (Blazersland) I'm Your Huckleberry Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

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    I am saying I don't think there is an amenable process. One side is not going to get their way, and that side will be the trans community.

    I thought that's what Platy was saying make a 3rd open division? Oh, so just a women's division and everybody else competes with the guys in a "open" division? Is that not cruel to trans athletes. Does that not deny their identity?

    There is no way to make everyone happy here.
     
    Chris Craig, May 23, 2024
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  3. Chris Craig

    Chris Craig (Blazersland) I'm Your Huckleberry Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

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    You don't think if trans boys start beating cis boys there won't be any effect?
     
    Chris Craig, May 23, 2024
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  4. Phatguysrule

    Phatguysrule Well-Known Member

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    There are many different levels for competitors in the boys (open) division.

    There are plenty of places to play. Maybe some or most can't make a living doing it. But most people can't make a living as a pro athlete. That's just life.
     
    Phatguysrule, May 23, 2024
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  5. oldfisherman

    oldfisherman Unicorn Wrangler

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    A boy that goes through puberty, with full normal testosterone levels, has a huge advantage in sports over females.

    Full growth testosterone levels make the boy taller, have larger lungs and muscles, and a larger frame size.

    Once full grown, taking down testosterone levels doesn't matter, even for over a year. The transgender female still has the blatant sport advantages of a male.
     
    oldfisherman, May 23, 2024
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  6. PtldPlatypus

    PtldPlatypus Let's go Baby Blazers! Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

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    If the trans boys are beating the cis boys without having hormone levels that are elevated above a cis-male biological standard, then yes some cis-boys (and advocates) will complain, but their complaints will not be justified in my mind.
     
    PtldPlatypus, May 23, 2024
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  7. Phatguysrule

    Phatguysrule Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't have any sympathy for anybody who had a problem, as long as everyone was following the rules.
     
    Phatguysrule, May 23, 2024
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  8. PtldPlatypus

    PtldPlatypus Let's go Baby Blazers! Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

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    You're right, there's no way to make everyone happy. That is not my goal. My goal is to be fair and reasonable.

    And no, I don't believe that this is cruel to trans athletes or denying their identity. The undeniable, biological fact is that physiology has a greater impact on athletic competition than identity does. The reason for Title IX's existence has nothing to do with gender identity expression; its implementation was based on the factual differences in physiology between those AMAB and AFAB. If we want to be true to the intent of that law, we need to protect athletic opportunities for cisgender girls.
     
    PtldPlatypus, May 23, 2024
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  9. PtldPlatypus

    PtldPlatypus Let's go Baby Blazers! Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

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    I agree with that as well. However, I would also posit that from a Title IX perspective, the exceedingly rare instance of cisgender females participating in the open division would need to not reduce the availability of athletic participation opportunities for boys and trans-girls.
     
    PtldPlatypus, May 23, 2024
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  10. Hoopguru

    Hoopguru Well-Known Member

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    Athletics at many levels have different leagues, to accommodate fairness. 6A versus 4A, rec leagues for kids versus classic/top leagues for kids. Triple A vers MLB. They are available to level a playing field with regards to fairness. There should be leagues available for trans athletes. However, since the percentage is probably low they may not be able to field teams.
     
    Hoopguru, May 23, 2024
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  11. Chris Craig

    Chris Craig (Blazersland) I'm Your Huckleberry Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

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    I get that. But, in a way it's not fair to the transgendered athletes because in their view it denies their identities, even if in your view it does not.

    I get you are trying to be fair and reasonable. I get cis female athletes are feeling disadvantaged and their parents feel they are disadvantaged. I'm not disputing that view. I'm not arguing the law. I'm just looking at it from both sides.
     
    Chris Craig, May 23, 2024
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  12. Phatguysrule

    Phatguysrule Well-Known Member

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    I don't think a league for just trans people is necessary. If somebody isn't competitive enough to play in the top open division they should be able to play at 4A or JV, or AAA or AA, or whatever level best matches their ability.

    If people aren't competitive enough to play at any of those levels then they have to join the rest of us in the stands or play rec.

    That's what most people do. There is nothing wrong with that.
     
    Phatguysrule, May 23, 2024
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  13. Hoopguru

    Hoopguru Well-Known Member

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    What would be your recommendation?
     
    Hoopguru, May 23, 2024
    #4553
  14. crandc

    crandc Well-Known Member

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    I don't agree with you but thank you for clarifying.
     
    crandc, May 23, 2024
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  15. SlyPokerDog

    SlyPokerDog Woof! Staff Member Administrator

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    [​IMG]
     
    SlyPokerDog, May 23, 2024
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  16. Phatguysrule

    Phatguysrule Well-Known Member

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    I'm with @PtldPlatypus. Assessment at birth seems the most fair, most accurate, and least invasive line for the most people.

    I don't see any drawbacks for anybody beyond what most people who like to play sports have to deal with.

    If I were talented enough to play basketball for a living I wouldn't be at my current job.
     
    Phatguysrule, May 23, 2024
    #4556
  17. Hoopguru

    Hoopguru Well-Known Member

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    So a transitioning AMAB would have to sign up and compete in a boys/mens team/league?
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2024
    Hoopguru, May 23, 2024
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  18. Phatguysrule

    Phatguysrule Well-Known Member

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    Yes.
     
    Phatguysrule, May 23, 2024
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  19. Hoopguru

    Hoopguru Well-Known Member

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    Correct me if I'm wrong but OSAA doesn't use that criteria?
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2024
    Hoopguru, May 23, 2024
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  20. Phatguysrule

    Phatguysrule Well-Known Member

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    I'm not aware of the exact OSAA criteria. I know I've seen girls play up into the boys divisions. Wrestling, football, etc. so it doesn't seem like much of a stretch.
     
    Phatguysrule, May 23, 2024
    #4560
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