Politics Ukraine / Russia

Discussion in 'Blazers OT Forum' started by Hoopguru, Jan 20, 2022.

  1. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

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    You surely must have an answer for that question. When you post, who benefits?

    barfo
     
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  2. beast blazer

    beast blazer Well-Known Member

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    Everyone, I enlighten you all.
     
  3. SlyPokerDog

    SlyPokerDog Woof! Staff Member Administrator

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    Exclusive: US and Germany foiled Russian plot to assassinate CEO of arms manufacturer sending weapons to Ukraine

    US intelligence discovered earlier this year that the Russian government planned to assassinate the chief executive of a powerful German arms manufacturer that has been producing artillery shells and military vehicles for Ukraine, according to five US and western officials familiar with the episode.

    The plot was one of a series of Russian plans to assassinate defense industry executives across Europe who were supporting Ukraine’s war effort, these sources said. The plan to kill Armin Papperger, a white-haired goliath who has led the German manufacturing charge in support of Kyiv, was the most mature.

    When the Americans learned of the effort, they informed Germany, whose security services were then able to protect Papperger and foil the plot. A high-level German government official confirmed that Berlin was warned about the plot by the US.

    For more than six months, Russia has been carrying out a sabotage campaign across Europe, largely by proxy. It has recruited local amateurs for everything from arson attacks on warehouses linked to arms for Ukraine to petty acts of vandalism — all designed to stymie the flow of weapons from the West to Ukraine and blunt public support for Kyiv.

    But the intelligence suggesting that Russia was willing to assassinate private citizens underlined to Western officials just how far Moscow was willing to go in a parallel shadow war it is waging across the west.

    https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/11/politics/us-germany-foiled-russian-assassination-plot/index.html
     
  4. UKRAINEFAN

    UKRAINEFAN Well-Known Member

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    This is really out there. Very disppointed that you make a rare appearance to post this.
    Biden base doing rusia, russia, russia thing? What? Nobody in USA, especially Dems had any interest at all in russia until russia invaded theri neighbor. In fact, Biden base would be about the same as Obama base, wouldn't they. and Obama didn't really give a shit what russia did to Georgia or Ukraine. Advised Ukraine not to fight bac when russia took Crimea.

    USA never talked seriously about Ukraine to NATO, they just kept throwing up roadblocks (they still are in fact) to make sure they never got in. did you view the Prigozhin video that I posted here where he states russoa's invasion had absolutely nothing to do with NATO, that it was simply a resource grab by russian elite? This has been borne out by how much grain and metal products that russia then stole and exported from Ukraine.
    NATO doesn't have missiles on the borders of russia, invact Obama canceled plans for installing defensive missile interceptors in NATO countries.

    Biden's account tweeted in February, 2020: "Vladimir Putin doesn't want me to be President. He doesn't want me to be our nominee. If you're wondering why—it's because I'm the only person in this field who's ever gone toe-to-toe with him," the then Democratic presidential candidate said
    That doesn't sound confrontational, it's just puffery in a political race. On the other hand, after his rejection of reconciliation with the West in his Munich speech of 2007. what did Putin actually DO:
    "Following the speech, Putin matched his words with actions, dismantling the structures designed to keep peace in post-Cold War Europe. Russia formally announced in July 2007 that it would no longer adhere to the Conventional Armed Forces in Europe Treaty. It continued to reject the principle of host-nation consent for its troop presence in Georgia and Moldova, and began ignoring Vienna Convention limits on troop concentrations, exercises and transparency.

    In 2008, Russia invaded Georgia, trading its peacekeepers in the regions of Abkhazia and South Ossetia for regular military personnel, and driving tanks toward the capital, Tbilisi. Six years later, Russian operatives took over Crimea and rapidly orchestrated its illegal annexation by Russia. Russia followed up with attacks in eastern Ukraine and continues to engage in low-intensity fighting and to occupy parts of Donbas to this day. Later, Russia violated the INF Treaty and began to deny overflights requested under the Open Skies Treaty."

    I don't what your next sentence is about. First you seem to say Biden was confrontational and that NATO on russia's borders is confrontational but then you seem to be saying USA should have had more trrops in Europe to deter Putin? In hindsight I think we can see that what would have deterred Putin is if USA was serious about getting Ukraine into NATO.

    Yes, a lot of blood is being spent needlessly. One man can end that in a minute by withdrawing his troops to his own country. Ukraine has seen the torture, imprisonment and executions in the street that takes place wherever russia occupies. They correctly don't think peace will stop the killing by the russians.

    Do you think USA is using Ukraine as a proxy to fight russia? What would be the benefit to USA of that? As I said, Americans didn't give a thought to russia before they invaded Ukraine. I agree with you, USA gains nothing by being involved in a war against a nuclear power, or as some say "a gas station with a nuclear bomb". USA and Biden would be very happy if russia would go home and end the war.
    I don't usually waste my time responding to dis-information here, but I was concerned that some people might think you had some credibility. I'm not trying to be dis-respectful but I just don't understand where you are coming from.
     
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  5. UKRAINEFAN

    UKRAINEFAN Well-Known Member

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    10,000 now in combat roles.
     
  6. UKRAINEFAN

    UKRAINEFAN Well-Known Member

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  7. UKRAINEFAN

    UKRAINEFAN Well-Known Member

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    russia declared hybrid war against the West many years ago.
     
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  8. UKRAINEFAN

    UKRAINEFAN Well-Known Member

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    Sorry I don't usually bother responding to you. There is absolutely no evidence that CIA funded or supported Maidan. I was there virtually every day and night. Completely spontaneous and fought with paving bricks and molotov cocktails by people whose main motivation was they wanted to live in a "normal" country. If you are gonna spread shit, you need to back it up.
     
  9. UKRAINEFAN

    UKRAINEFAN Well-Known Member

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    Thank you. It's just incredible that there are posters on here, supposedly Americans, who support the ridiculous lies of russia.
     
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  10. beast blazer

    beast blazer Well-Known Member

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    The US openly supported the ousting of Yanukovych. It's not my fault that you're so painfully ignorant. And no, the leaders of the Maidan coup were Neo-Nazis who began to oppress the ethnic Russians in the east who supported Yanukovych.

    You've proven your ignorance over and over again with all your posts about how Ukraine is winning militarily. I've been saying for the last 2 years this was not the case, and have been proven correct.
     
  11. SlyPokerDog

    SlyPokerDog Woof! Staff Member Administrator

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    I'm curious, and I'm being serious, is your family Russian?
     
  12. beast blazer

    beast blazer Well-Known Member

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    I'm not Russian, I just don't like only one side of the story being told. I could argue that Russia shouldn't have escalated this as they have, but what we have here is two dogs fighting over a bone (Ukraine) only this fight has already caused the deaths of tens of thousands, and could possibly result in the death of billions.

    But our current leadership isn't interested in ending the conflict, but in attaining a victory which will never happen. And the masses cheer this on, as they've been sold a story of a righteous struggle against evil.
     
  13. SlyPokerDog

    SlyPokerDog Woof! Staff Member Administrator

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    But it's Ukraine's bone.
     
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  14. beast blazer

    beast blazer Well-Known Member

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    Ukraine is the bone.
     
  15. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    It has been Biden's full intention to admit Ukraine to NATO. That was the talk at the time when Putin started building up troops on the Ukraine border.

    Look, in the early 1960s, Russia tried to put missiles in Cuba and president Kennedy blockaded Cuba and nearly forced a nuclear war over it. But it's OK for the US to not want missiles on its borders (90 miles way from Florida), but not for Russia?

    I'm not at all pro Russia, I'm just saying you have to look at both sides since there are TWO SIDES in any conflict.

    Russia invaded Crimea during Obama's term and Ukraine during Biden's. Whatever foreign policy they had towards Russia was an utter failure.

    How do you expect him to respond to fighting words?

    "Toe-to-toe" with him is picking a fight.

    The Russia, Russia, Russia thing is a disproven theory that Russia and the Trump campaign colluded to win the election. The constant lies about this and assaults on Russia as our enemy sure fires up Biden's base.

    You might want to look at what Trump did regarding Russia - the financial penalties put on the country and its oligarchs. And no, I'm not a Trump fan - I'm just being objective.

    It's an ironic thing. The Republicans used to be anti-Russia/anti-communism and now it's Democrats who are assaulting and making war against Russia.

    Ukraine being a NATO country would mean NATO missiles on Russia's border. There are missiles aimed at Russia in every other NATO country in Europe.

    During the Cold War, the US and NATO had troops in West Berlin and West Germany to deter Russian aggression and it worked. These troops were not a threat to invade East Germany or East Berlin. Those troops would have been wiped out within minutes if Russia did invade. I hope you might see the difference.

    The whole thing would have been avoided by:
    1) Not talking a path for Ukraine in NATO or offering NATO membership to Russia (think about that one!)
    2) Positioning American/NATO troops in Ukraine as we did in West Berlin and West Germany during the USSR days. Russia did not invade those two.
    3) Saying "nothing is off the table."
    4) Not saying things like "I think what you're going to see is that Russia will be held accountable if it invades. And it depends on what it does. It's one thing if it's a minor incursion and then we end up having a fight about what to do and not do." -- Joe Biden

    War is hell. I don't wish it on Ukrainians, nor do I wish it on the Russian citizens who are needlessly fighting.

    Absolutely the US is using Ukraine as a proxy to fight Russia. That's why there are no US boots on the ground there. That's why we are supplying Ukraine with weapons to hold off the Russian forces. The idea is to try to drain the Russian economy and ability to make war through a long and drawn out war in Ukraine. It's not US men and women dying there. It should be NOBODY dying there.

    It's why there's been a limit put on the Ukrainian forces on how to attack Russia. It's why weapons like the fighter jets that Zelinsky has been asking for have been denied.

    It's Biden standing toe to toe with Putin.

    The disinformation is what's being spoken on TV and in the newspapers and in the news bubbles people expose them to that support this war.

    Again, it should never have happened. After Obama and Biden presidencies, there are a number of nations around the world that have their cities bombed to rubble, and it's an outright shame.

    (Trump did continue with Obama's drone strikes - 10s of thousands of them, which is also a terrible legacy)
    [​IMG]

    Libya, one example. And Libya was helping in the war on terror, though they had a despicable leader in Khadafi.

    It's hard to fathom why a US president would pick a fight with a nuclear power. We're closer to nuclear war than ever, or at least as close to the Cuban Missile Crisis (read about it).
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2024
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  16. riverman

    riverman Writing Team

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    Make no mistake about it....it was Putin who picked a fight, not the US....standing up to bullies is not the same as provoking them. If you look at both sides you'll see atrocities from the Russian camp that show the true nature of Putin's attempts to rebuild the former Soviet Union and his tendency to assasinate all his detractors or political opponeents. Protecting NATOs borders is quite different from threatening nuclear war. There will be no nuclear war over this issue. That's just the paranoid being paranoid.Putin knows a nuclear conflict would end his regime and destroy Russia. Not liking the democratic party is one thing but using our NATO response as a political spin point is disingenuous. I certainly hope we hold up our promises to Taiwan as well. China nor Russia have nothing to gain from going to war with the United States. It's a death sentence to both countries.
     
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  17. beast blazer

    beast blazer Well-Known Member

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    Get your ass over there and fight.
     
  18. UKRAINEFAN

    UKRAINEFAN Well-Known Member

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    Maybe you are not pro-russia but you seem kind of anti-America. I am not a blind follower of USA policy. in fact I spent 18 months in prison because I believed our Viet Nam policy was bad for our country. but I will continue to believe our help for Ukraine is correct and good for world security. In no way do I think USA instigated this war or wants this war. Period.
     
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  19. UKRAINEFAN

    UKRAINEFAN Well-Known Member

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    Maybe one day you will come up with some facts instead of insulting the intelligence of everyone here?
     
  20. Everything Beagle

    Everything Beagle Local Trans Icon

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    Shut up when the adults are talking please
     
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