ok now...this is from summer league right, the "potential flashing" you saw?? In SL, Clingan shot 35.7% on FG's, 23% on three's, and 50% on FT's. Look at those numbers...they are bad. The sub 36% on FG's for a 7'2 C is bad. 23% on three's is bad. 50% on FT's is especially bad considering it is a pretty solid predictor of actual shooting skills. And Clingan didn't post those numbers against Jokic and Gobert and Saboni and AD. He posted them against SL bigs at the level of Duop Reath or worse in terms of rebounding, rim protection, and paint defense, I thought Clingan looked better than my expectations. But his offense and shooting was miles behind those things
You're right, he's so bad at free throws he should stop taking them. No sense in attempting to get better.
snark...I get it but, I didn't say anything of the sort. Nor did I imply he shouldn't practice FT shooting. I simply questioned how shooting like he did in SL was flashing potential as a decent shooter
I agree with this second to last sentence and you don't say anything I disagree with in that last sentence but he also exceeded my expectations as a passer on offense and looks like he's going to be a really good screen setter. I would have liked to see him roll harder but there are a lot of things on offense I would have liked to see that I didn't... his passing and screen setting though are really nice.
Not the analogy... His mechanics look good and he hit some open threes. Might as well shoot as many as he can, see if it can become a thing. Stats be darned
Yeah, of course his offense and shooting is miles behind his offense. I didn’t disagree what anything you said. He shot nine 3’s overall in college, and he shot more of them in SL. I don’t see a broken shot. I am assuming that if he’s willing to shoot them in SL, he’s going to not care about shooting them in the NBA and air-balling a few, maybe even a lot of 3’s. That’s the only way he’ll get better at them. Going from having assumptions that he would be no better than Rudy Gobert on offense to seeing him be able to do what he did, that’s enough flashes for me to be excited about. It’s not like those were his numbers half way through his rookie season. The numbers don’t particularly matter to me this early in his career, I’m just happy to see he is willing to try some of the things he’s done so far. Yeah, you, in particular, dictate how you feel about a player or prospect based on numbers (imo anyway, correct me if you feel different). I’m kind of semi—the same way, relying on numbers, but I also use intangibles, work ethic, and things like that I see in a player to be a bit forward thinking to what a player can be when it matters, and that’s kind if how I judge a prospect. It’d be like me and you arguing over any stock currently at the top of the NASDAQ ten years ago, where I go “yooo this company is going to be worth $___b in the future because I see *blah blah blah*” and you go “but it’s a shit company right now, look at the stock price”. Fine, but if I see potential in the technology, I trust the management team, and I already know it is being used in everyday life, I’m excited about the company regardless of the stock price. But in the case your first question wasn’t rhetorical, yes, the flashing potential I saw was indeed what I see from SL lol. Do I think Clingan is going to shoot 35% half way through his rookie year? I do not. The other two shooting stats don’t matter to me as long as it gets better every year, and that is obviously a multi-year game. I honestly don’t mind him shooting 25% his first year as long as he has some volume. Have him shoot three 3’s a night. If he averaged 25% from 3 on 3PA, he would only have a 42% chance of missing all 3 per game lol.
here's why I don't agree with the notion of Clingan shooting three's: I think it's a bad idea because it takes him out of offensive rebounding position and offensive rebounds are just about the most valuable possessions in the NBA coincidentally, Jusuf Nurkic had his highest 3 pt shot rate in 2022-23 at 24%; and he shot 36% on three's. Yet, he was always open on his three's because defenses preferred him chucking from the line rather than being in offensive rebounding position; they encouraged it. And, that season when he had his highest rate of three point attempts was also the season when he had his lowest offensive rebounding rate I want no part of Meyers Leonard creeping into Clingan's game
I AGREE WITH WHAT YOU’RE SAYING LOLOL. The alternative to that isn’t to not let him shoot 3’s at all. Bigs have to be able to shoot 3’s in today’s game imo. I said nothing about spending 100% of their time on the floor exclusively behind the line. You chose Meyers because it fits your argument. “I want no part of Lopez, KP, JJJ creeping into Clingan’s game.”—you could’ve easily used any of those names, I don’t think any of those guys spend their time exclusively at the 3pt line either. Even the guys like Turner or Embiid, who actually do spend a bit too much time out there. Yes, of course you don’t want your 7’2 center that far out all the time when he will almost always be one of the biggest guys when he is the paint. Players at every size now need to be multi-skilled, shooting is an incredibly valuable skill. To your point, yes we don’t want him to ever become a shoot first big. No shit about wanting no part of Leonard’s game creeping into Clingan LOL. Did you say something bold with that? No one is disagreeing with you dude. I want many parts of Nikola Jokic’s game creeping into Clingan’s game.
Jokic is the middle school kid that was fat and slow but could shoot left open. BBB IQ, and he could also pass ,and had a good touch around the rim. He still cant get of the ground much and isn't real quick and sos so on the d side. Block Lobster, spend time learning to block out and block shots. It's pretty clear he was never asked to spend much time shooting fall aways or developing a touch.
swing swing shoot, swing swing shoot. It's the modern standard for NBA offense. Hart haters would get mad at Josh for breaking the chain of swing swing shoot. "Get all the rebounds, guard the toughest players, pick up Anfernee's blown assignments, and gosh darnit shoot the 25 footer when you're open!" the NBA is harder then it appears on TV. There's this thing called being gassed. When players are banging for positioning & boards, playing intense defense, that deep shot becomes tougher for the hustle guys, because they're trying to catch their breath. Why did Hart's 3 point shooting instantly improve in New York? Ummm.. maybe his new teammates play better defense, and he wasn't stuck on an island wrestling with multiple scoring threats by himself ?? naaah, the boxscore doesn't say anything about players not offering defensive effort. It says 0-2 from deep. That should read at least 2-8 from distance every game, because I want those 2 bonus points for my fantasy team !!
I am not sure that explains why he shot 31% from three last year with NY. Yes, he got better when he immediately joined the Knicks but didn't he also shoot it better when he immediately joined Portland? But to your point, yes going all out on defense does affect your offense.
Lopez: over his first 8 seasons in the NBA went 2-31 on three's. He shot less than 4 three's a season. He attempted a three every 11th game. He actually worked hard to establish his big man credentials before drifting out to the arc in his 9th season Porzingis shot 36% on three's on 169 attempts in euro-league before migrating to the NBA Jaren Jackson shot 40% on three's in his one seasons at MSU, and it was on 106 attempts; more than 3 attempts/game you're right, I didn't use them as a comp because their three point resumes are completely different. On the other hand, from three, Meyers was 1-12 in two seasons at Illinois; Clingan was 2-9 in 2 seasons at UConn. Very similar. And when Meyers decided he was Reggie Miller is when his rebounding and defensive identity became weak. Meyers actually shot 73% on FT's in college which is generally predictive of shooting potential; Clingan shot 56% a couple of other things: in college, when Meyers wasn't shooting three's, his FT rate was .413. In the NBA,, after his 2nd season when he went three-happy, his FT rate cratered down to around .150. Clingan's FT rate was .489. I want him to keep that FT rate up, even though his conversion rate on FT's is poor. Blazers will be better off if Clingan is missing some FT's rather than missing three's and generating long rebounds and transition opportunities for the other team I said before I don't really care much about Clingan shooting three's next season. I think Portland's C rotation will be goofy anyway with the logjam they have. Clingan clanging some three's won't change anything. I just haven't seen anything from Clingan that makes me think him being 20-25 feet from the rim on offense is a good idea. And I sure haven't seen him flashing any potential as a three point threat, other than the threat of wasted possessions
I haven't looked at Blazers points in paint differential from last year. It's probably pretty far down on the list. It might be better keeping Clingan in the paint shooting 5 footers. We're not the Coach, and we're definitely not Tom Haberstoh. That goofball would be happy if every player shot nothing but 3 pointers. Offensive analytics can be cherry picked to disregard the general effort on both sides of the court. Hopefully Tom Haberstoh can rip out some defensive analytics with Clingan, because that's why Portland drafted a 7+ foot wall of "not in my house".
Portland's rebounders at forward have sucked for a while ... and if a BIG is shooting and hitting 3's from the top (and able to get back on D when he misses), then GOOD offensive rebounders are needed. Deni is a start. Clingan should work on his 3's, free throws ... everything. HOWEVER, he needs to focus on what is needed from him that he is good at. [I won't get over not getting Salaun or Cody Williams maybe ever, but I do appreciate what Clingan can do.]
I expect Cody will be a really good player. But I think Clingan is the type to make the entire team concept better plus being one of the best rim protectors. I think we got this right.
Disagree. I'd much prefer his rookie year being a year for development of his body and game where immediate results are not the goal. This team is not competing for a championship any time soon and Donavan will likely only be getting spot minutes so the focus should be on the ultimate vision of what he could become not providing the best version of himself today. Keep hoisting away big man, there is plenty of time to dial it back if this part of his game doesn't blossum. btw, 3 point misses equal long rebounds. Bigs camping out under the boards will still equal some results but there are plenty to be scooped up outside the paint by smaller/quicker players who track the ball well STOMP
Hopefully Clingan can one day be almost as good as a DPOY max contract center like Rudy Gobert. Those are the types of players that can play as a 5 minute backup to Guerschon Yabusele and Mathias Lessort - just as Gobert did today for France. It was an increase in Goberts minutes from 3 in the prior game. That's just such a valuable type of center to have in today's NBA as a 3rd string option.
