When have you been less excited for the start of a Blazers season?

Almost every team that wins a title is an exceptional case. But looking at the draft for the past 20 or so years, Boston is the only team that has had top 5 guys lead the drafting team to a title.

 

I'm not sure I'm following you with top five guys? You mean that they drafted their own guys who were all like top-ish picks?

I think it's highly likely that we'll eventually end up having to trade some of our high draft picks for players who fit better. The point is that we just need to increase our overall talent level as much as possible. We need the greatest infusion of talent possible, because we have been so bereft of talent since, Aldridge left really...

We now have some talent. But we haven't come close to catching up to the top teams in talent or potential.

 

It’s not emotional at all. Losing is losing. Losers are losers. Players at this level don’t want to lose. Simple as that.

 

Then they should play hard and get their reps in the off season. I never suggested the players should do anything other than try to win.

If we're too good to lose with a bunch if young players then we're in good shape.

 

This is beating the dead horse over the head over and over.

It’s clear as day there is only a couple people with logic that we need to keep tanking and just give away Simons/Grant for pick, and “hope” we get lucky in a draft.

All of the good counterpoints will just be replied with a “you’re not thinking logically” because I know better than you talk.

the NBA season can’t start soon enough, with Grant and Ant most likely on the team still

 

The point isn't that they need to keep tanking or not. Everyone on this board pretty much agrees they do need to lose a bunch of games this year and will lose a bunch next year. The question remains how many years you gonna tank?
If your answer is "As long as it takes" then there is another question that will be asked.

 

History shows us it will only take 5 or 6 seasons total. As long as Sharpe and Scoot turn into at least legit playoff quality starters we should still be on that timeline. Another 2 or 3 years should get us there.

 

History from who? I am sure you can find a couple of teams where that time frame worked, but I am guessing there are several others where it did not. At least for teams who can't augment the process by being an FA destination.

 

you do know that the CBA rules were different 25 years ago...right? Executing unbalanced trades and signing free agents was much easier back then. It was especially easier because PA didn't give a shit about paying tax in that era. JA and the current Vulcans are allergic to tax.

just look at the Pippen trade....it was a 6 for 1 deal less than a month before the season started. Almost no chance a 6 for 1 trade could happen a month before a season under the current CBA. By the way, Stacy Augmon was traded for Pippen. Two weeks later he was waived and re-signed by Portland; and it was part of the agreement with Houston. That's an illegal transaction today

besides all that...LOL at any suggestion that the 'risk-be-damned' management urgency of Bob Whitsitt, operating under the open checkbook of Paul Allen, could be matched by the 'take-no-risks' management of Cronin operating under the 'mediocrity doesn't matter-cash-flow-is-king' ownership of Jody & the Vulcans.

that team had Pippen, Rasheed, Steve Smith, Sabonis, Stoudamire, Bonzi Wells, and Jermaine O'Neal. Any of those 7 guys would be the best player on the current Blazer team....meaning it's a hell of a lot easier to trade for talent when you have talent to trade

 

This is most likely the last year of the Tank Blazers. They are probably good enough this year to compete for a play in….if everything fell right for them. The team won’t allow that to happen though.

 

There are no guarantees. But you need All Stars to win championships.

When I was digging into it I learned you have a roughly 14% chance of drafting an (I believe) first team All NBA player in the top half of the lotto. About a 25% chance of drafting an all star in the lottery.

If you tank hard (trade all of your vets who don't have much All NBA potential for draft capital) and can draft top half of the lotto for 5 or 6 years you will almost certainly come out with an all NBA player as well as an All-Star.

If you draft well you will also have a lot of other talented guys around them. If you traded well you will have extra opportunities to add quality young players to this mix.

You will now have one of the most talented young teams in the league.

Now you just need quality ownership and management to nurture and trade that into a championship/dynasty.

But you can't do any of that if you lack talent. We still lack enough talent.

 

That is, unfortunately, a mistake. It's going to suck to be a play-in, first round and out team for another decade and then be right back here having the same conversation...

Hope I'm wrong about that and we get incredibly lucky, but... That is certainly not likely.

 

Once you start stacking good players how do you tank though? Easier said than done.

 

If your young players win too many games to tank that's a good problem.

Our problem is that we have vets who aren't championship caliber players that are winning us meaningless games, possibly costing us draft position as well as costing our younger players time on the court.

At no point and under no circumstances am I ever suggesting that the players should try to lose or the coaches should try to lose.

 

But they don't have All NBA potential. I think Ayton has a slight possibility to be All NBA, But probably not a 15% chance. Probably not a 25% chance to be an All-Star.

So if we can trade him for the opportunity to get into the lottery that's a good trade IMO.

I don't think Simons has a prayer to ever be that caliber.

I would not be pleased because I don't think the guys that we have who are young vets are quality playoff caliber starters.

 

the average age of NBA players is 26.03 years. So, Ayton and Simons aren't young at all, by NBA standards. Middle age

what they are: two players who have combined for 12 seasons, 0 all-star games (and likely still be 0 all-star games when their careers are over), and are currently paid over 60M. This isn't a 'dump them for whatever' situation. But there sure shouldn't be as much resistance to the idea of trading them as there is around here. Their presence won't alter the team's trajectory, but there absence might

 

I don't necessarily want to get rid of Ayton (I don't want to "get rid" of any players on our roster). I think he can help us moving forward if his mind is right. And if we have the right roster around him.

We don't have any other guys who make us too good to tank besides Simon's, Grant, and possibly Ayton.

I don't see the contradiction.

We need to trade those guys (again, aside from Ayton, who I think has far more potential) for the best possible draft capital. I think we have probably held them too long and we're going to start getting diminishing returns.

 

What you are honestly looking for here is for the team to "Tank". As I said a long time ago in this thread. Grant and Simons are not enough to keep the team out of the lottery. Your response is "High Lottery". Well the way to get a top three pick is to lose about 65 games. The only way you do that is to sell the team on losing again. The talent they have even without Grant and Simons who they will have to shut down again and most likely Ayton as well can win more than 17-18 games.

What you are saying in this post is that those players don't have much upside (All NBA or All Star) so trade them. It puts you in the same old conversation. If we don't think they have much upside then why would anyone else? What team that is looking to be in the Lottery is going to give you that pick for Grant or Simons who you don't think will ever be All NBA or All Star.