All of the players in the top 30ish are amazing hall of fame talents. So these lists are all splitting hairs. All these guys could be the primarily player leading a team to a title. I think of these lists as best player to be what player if added to a team would give that franchise the greatest increase in chance of titles over their career. Longevity does matter but peak years also matter. Bill Walton would never make these lists even though a single season of his might. Karl Malone played very well into his 40's but was never close to the best player in the league (even though like Westbrook we won an MVP). Duncan is clearly above Kobe as he can fit alongside so many other great players, contribute more on both ends of the court, and was able to do it much later into his career. Now if your definition is who could have the highest PPG, highlight plays, and entertain butts in the seats a player like Kobe would rank much higher. I always consider players that provide the most substance to wins to be superior over someone with flashy plays which is part of the reason I rank Kobe lower than others.
I'd put Kobe over Stockton, Nash, Payton, CP3, Isiah Thomas, etc just because a short guard can't lead a team to titles as effective as elite wings can. Bill Russell is another player who is massively overrated. A center that shot 44% in a tiny NBA league with 8 teams? In today's game I'm not even sure he'd be a starter. The racism and other obstacles Russell had to overcome should certainly be commended. But that is totally separate from how good of an all time NBA talent he is.
Well, Isaiah Thomas did it twice, without another superstar. Stockton would have if not for running into the GOAT twice. Though, Stockton did have Malone. Stockton and Thomas have the best argument, IMO. But Nash is massively underrated. The league screwed the Suns (Diaw and Amare suspensions, for example) or Nash would probably have at least one title.
Isiah Thomas had a stacked team, 3 elite guards with Dumars, Vinnie Johnson, great bigs with Dennis Rodman, Lambier and John Salley. Switch Kobe with Isiah Thomas and they still win two of those titles, but they might have won more. Not sure how all the sudden this thread has turned into me supporting Kobe.... I think he's way overrated. All the same arguments I made above would stay the same with Wade in place of Kobe.
