Notice Ideas and Suggestions

GMJ · Sep 9, 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (shapecity)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chutney)</div><div class='quotemain'>

I'll be sure to flip through the rest of this thread so that I don't repeat others, Petey. And I don't mean to rush you guys either. Just a little brainstormin, more than anything. 

btw, when I'm typing a post and press "Enter," why does it move down two lines? 

</div>



If you hold down the "Shift" Key and hit "Enter" it will do a single line. 

 </div>

Wow not even I knew that. Thanks!

cpawfan · Sep 9, 2007

The reason for the double line when you hit enter is because the editor is thinking like a word processor. It assumes that most of the time you want to start a new paragraph of thoughts.

If you want to make a list of things, instead of using shift+enter, the unorder list icon (the one with bullet points) provides a quick and easy way to give consecutive line points

Denny Crane · Sep 9, 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chutney)</div><div class='quotemain'>

Just going through the site, I believe that its a great site as a whole, but the forum aspect just isn't as simple and accessible as I would like. This is no means a bashing, because I still love the merger. But some small things that I wouldn't mind changing:

- In any individual forum, I would create some sort of seperation between threads and folders that lead to another forum (eg: in the off-topic forum, I'd be referring to something like the "Music" folder). This isn't really to make things easier to find, because the folders are already at the top of the page. It has more to do with the information that is given. After the thread title, the next columns describe the creator of the thread and the last poster in that thread. The problem is that, for the folders, you can't find out what thread it is referring to. If we could put the folders in some sort of seperate box, we could more accurately describe the recent activity in that folder to someone from the outside looking in (IMO, that info would be the thread title and last poster in that thread, as well as the date).

- I know its like beating a dead horse, but I truly do believe the font is too small. And this isn't just about me being too lazy to customize it myself. IMO, the focus for any quality forum should be discussion. Now, for a newcomer just visiting this site for the first time, that really doesn't come across with the current font size-to-graphic size proportions. It doesn't send the right message.

- I love the tabs at the top of the page, but I don't believe that its a good enough substitute for a home page for each sport/league. There should still be a page that lists each individual forum within that section of the site. The main reason is that, although the "Recent Discussion" page is helpful, it only directs users to parts of the site that have a lot of activity. That means the low-activity parts of the site get ignored and become abandoned. So for example, if we had a list of every subforum within the NBA section of the site, we could list the latest activity for each of those subforums and users would be more willing to browse those areas as they scan the entire page.



Those are just the main issues that I've noticed. Again, I hope this doesn't seem like an attack. But the one thing we should keep in mind that, despite the fact that vbulletin was limited and outdated, they still had a very simple and effective format for their forums. Obviously we can make this site much more well-rounded than any vbulletin site, but I don't think we should completely abandon some of their concepts.

</div>

These are all solid points. I NEVER want to discourage people from making these kinds of suggestions. And I want people to know that I keep a spiral notebook next to my computer and make lists of the requests made by people and I do work on those things.

My current short list (to be done today):<ul>[*]Bigger font size for posts[*]Link to recent activity pages on the home page in the Recent Activity pagelet[*][youtube][/youtube] tags[*]Add fitness forum to the Forums page[/list]

We don't have sports photographs that we can readily add to the site, though this will change in the not-to-distant future. Those will add a huge quality to the visuals of the site. For now, the images that people put in their signatures and avatars do a lot to keep the site from looking like we're a small number of professional sportswriters (or something).

Next week, we'll focus on some of the forum/thread/post related features and functions.

I want to add to the discussion about the editor. SportsTwo is simply not a message board. It is a content management system with enough look/feel of a message board that people can "get it" sooner. All the posts are raw HTML, and the editor is a widely accepted on for creating HTML based documents. The editor is used in all kinds of software that rivals vbulletin - including WordPress, Drupal, and dozens of others. It's simple enough that you can just click and type in simple posts, but it's also got all the tools to create "posts" that are visually quite beyond what we're used to from traditional message boards. People who care to create those awesome visual kinds of posts will, and people who want to converse with all the other great people who are now using the site won't. The choice is there. We also feature blogs, which are the ideal way for people to create and promote the highest quality of posts/articles. 

The editor does feel like a word processor, but I'm not seeing that people are having a hard time making posts. The issue of the enter key inserting an extra new line makes sense after first glance. You're inserting a paragraph break, not a line break (shift-enter inserts a line break). Paragraphs are separated by a blank line. Make sense? The benefit of using pure HTML and this editor is that you can paste content from other sites and (mostly) not lose the formatting. You're copying and pasting stuff that has HTML paragraph tags.

For example:

http://www.82games.com/0607/06CHI7A.HTM

<table border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" width="750"><tbody><tr><td> Luol Deng
Chicago Bulls
2006-2007 NBA Season 

Player Stats | 5-Man Units | By Position | On/Off Court | Clutch Play 

 Floor Time statistics
<table border="0" cellspacing="1" width="500" bgcolor="#cccccc"> <tbody><tr bgcolor="#33cc33"> <td>Min</td> <td>Net Pts</td> <td>Off</td> <td>Def</td> <td>Net48</td> <td>W</td> <td>L</td> <td>Win%</td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"> <td align="center"> 77%</td> <td align="center">+420</td> <td align="center"> 99.8</td> <td align="center"> 93.3</td> <td align="center"> 6.6</td> <td align="center"> 49 </td> <td align="center"> 30 </td> <td>62.0</td> </tr> </tbody></table> These stats represent how the team performed while the player was on the floor.
The Net48 number shows the average +/- net points over a full game. 

Scoring
<table border="0" cellspacing="1" width="460" bgcolor="#cccccc"> <tbody><tr bgcolor="#e5e5e5"> <td width="60" bgcolor="#33cc33">By</td> <td width="50">FG.</td> <td width="50">FGA</td> <td width="50">FG%</td> <td width="50">eFG%</td> <td width="50">Ast'd</td> <td width="50">Blk'd</td> <td width="50">FTM</td> <td width="50">Pts</td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"> <td>Game</td> <td align="right"> 7.7</td> <td align="right">14.9</td> <td align="right">.517</td> <td align="right">.518 </td> <td align="right"> 69%</td> <td align="right"> 7%</td> <td align="right"> 3.4</td> <td align="right">18.8</td> </tr> </tbody></table> 

Shooting Details
<table border="0" cellspacing="1" width="100%" bgcolor="#000000"> <tbody><tr bgcolor="#ffffff"> <td width="50%"> Shot selection <table border="0" cellspacing="1" width="290" bgcolor="#cccccc"> <tbody><tr bgcolor="#e5e5e5"> <td width="50" bgcolor="#33cc33">Shot</td> <td width="48">Att.</td> <td width="48">eFG%</td> <td width="48">Ast'd</td> <td width="48">Blk'd</td> <td width="48">Pts</td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"> <td>Jump</td> <td align="right"> 61%</td> <td align="right">.426 </td> <td align="right"> 78%</td> <td align="right"> 5%</td> <td align="right"> 7.7</td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"> <td>Close</td> <td align="right"> 29%</td> <td align="right">.583 </td> <td align="right"> 60%</td> <td align="right"> 13%</td> <td align="right"> 5.1</td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"> <td>Dunk</td> <td align="right"> 8%</td> <td align="right">.978 </td> <td align="right"> 76%</td> <td align="right"> 0%</td> <td align="right"> 2.2</td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"> <td>Tips</td> <td align="right"> 2%</td> <td align="right">.633 </td> <td align="right"> 0%</td> <td align="right"> 0%</td> <td align="right"> 0.5</td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#f0f0df"> <td>Inside</td> <td align="right"> 39%</td> <td align="right">.662 </td> <td align="right"> 61%</td> <td align="right"> 10%</td> <td align="right"> 7.7</td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> <td width="50%"> Shot clock usage <table border="0" cellspacing="1" width="290" bgcolor="#cccccc"> <tbody><tr bgcolor="#e5e5e5"> <td width="50" bgcolor="#33cc33">Secs.</td> <td width="48">Att.</td> <td width="48">eFG%</td> <td width="48">Ast'd</td> <td width="48">Blk'd</td> <td width="48">Pts</td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"> <td>0-10</td> <td align="right"> 45%</td> <td align="right">.576 </td> <td align="right"> 65%</td> <td align="right"> 6%</td> <td align="right"> 7.6</td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"> <td>11-15</td> <td align="right"> 25%</td> <td align="right">.487 </td> <td align="right"> 81%</td> <td align="right"> 7%</td> <td align="right"> 3.7</td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"> <td>16-20</td> <td align="right"> 21%</td> <td align="right">.473 </td> <td align="right"> 65%</td> <td align="right"> 8%</td> <td align="right"> 3.0</td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"> <td>21+</td> <td align="right"> 9%</td> <td align="right">.428 </td> <td align="right"> 70%</td> <td align="right"> 10%</td> <td align="right"> 1.2</td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#f0f0df"> <td>Crunch</td> <td align="right"> 30%</td> <td align="right">.459 </td> <td align="right"> 67%</td> <td align="right"> 8%</td> <td align="right"> 4.1</td> </tr></tbody></table> </td></tr> </tbody></table> 

 Free Throw Shooting and Foul Drawing <table border="0" cellspacing="1" width="440" bgcolor="#cccccc"> <tbody><tr bgcolor="#33cc33"> <td width="55">FTM</td> <td width="55">FTA</td> <td width="55">FT%</td> <td width="55">FTA48</td> <td width="55">PTS48</td> <td width="55">FGA</td> <td width="55">Fouled</td> <td width="55">DrawF</td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"> <td> 278 </td> <td> 358 </td> <td align="center"> 77.7</td> <td align="center"> 5.6</td> <td align="center"> 4.3</td> <td> 1374 </td> <td> 156 </td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#fffcc0"> 11.4%</td> </tr> </tbody></table> FGA includes the number of shooting fouls drawn. 

 Passing Stats <table border="0" cellspacing="1" width="540" bgcolor="#cccccc"> <tbody><tr bgcolor="#33cc33"> <td width="60">3-Pt
Assists</td> <td width="60">Jump
Assists</td> <td width="60">Close
Assists</td> <td width="60">Dunk
Assists</td> <td width="60">Total
Assists</td> <td width="60">Passing
T/O's</td> <td width="60">Assist/
Bad Pass</td> <td width="60">Passing
Rating</td> <td width="60">AST48</td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"> <td> 75 </td> <td> 71 </td> <td> 40 </td> <td> 18 </td> <td> 204 </td> <td> 46 </td> <td align="center"> 4.4</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#ffffcc"> 3.2</td> <td align="center"> 3.2</td> </tr> </tbody></table> 

 Rebounding <table border="0" cellspacing="1" width="600" bgcolor="#cccccc"> <tbody><tr bgcolor="#33cc33"> <td width="60">Off
Rebounds</td> <td width="60">Off. Reb
Chances</td> <td width="60">Off. Reb
Pct</td> <td width="60">Team Off
Reb%</td> <td width="60">Def
Rebounds</td> <td width="60">Def. Reb
Chances</td> <td width="60">Def. Reb
Pct</td> <td width="60">Team Def
Reb%</td> <td width="60">Player
Rating</td> <td width="60">Team FT
Rating</td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"> <td> 148 </td> <td> 2958 </td> <td align="center"> 5.0%</td> <td align="center"> 30.1%</td> <td> 431 </td> <td> 3022 </td> <td align="center"> 14.3%</td> <td align="center"> 72.5%</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#ffffcc"> 19.3</td> <td align="center">102.6</td> </tr> </tbody></table> 

 Shot Blocking <table border="0" cellspacing="1" width="600" bgcolor="#cccccc"> <tbody><tr bgcolor="#33cc33"> <td width="60">Jump
Blocks</td> <td width="60">Close
Blocks</td> <td width="60">Dunk
Blocks</td> <td width="60">Jump
Pct</td> <td width="60">Close
Pct</td> <td width="60">Dunk
Pct</td> <td width="60">All
Blocks</td> <td width="60">BLK48</td> <td width="60">Block
Pct</td> <td width="60">Shoot
Fouls</td> <td width="60">Blocks/
Foul</td> <td width="60">Block
Rating</td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"> <td> 13 </td> <td> 34 </td> <td> 1 </td> <td align="center"> 0%</td> <td align="center"> 2%</td> <td align="center"> 0%</td> <td> 48 </td> <td align="center"> 0.8</td> <td align="center"> 1.0%</td> <td> 73 </td> <td align="center">0.66</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#ffffcc"> 2.5</td> </tr> </tbody></table> 

 Turnovers and Ball Handling <table border="0" cellspacing="1" width="400" bgcolor="#cccccc"> <tbody><tr bgcolor="#33cc33"> <td width="80">Offensive
Fouls</td> <td width="80">Bad
Passes</td> <td width="80">Ball Handling
Turnovers</td> <td width="80">Other
Turnovers</td> <td width="80">'Hands'
Rating</td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"> <td> 27 </td> <td> 46 </td> <td> 74 </td> <td> 6 </td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#fffcc0"> 11.3</td> </tr> </tbody></table> 

</td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#e0e0e0"> <td> We want your feedback! Tell us your thoughts </td> </tr> </tbody></table> 

Copyright © 2006-07 by 82games.com, All Rights Reserved

Денг Гордон · Sep 9, 2007

For the youtube tags, will it be on the editor? Also, will it just be copying the little code at the end of the video url, or are we putting the entire url in there?

Denny Crane · Sep 9, 2007

<div><object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/tp://youtube/whatever?whatever&"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/tp://youtube/whatever?whatever&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350" /></embed></object></div>

The proper embed tags will be inserted as the posts are displayed.

Chutney · Sep 9, 2007

I love the word processor, that was just a minor question I had. 

About the youtube videos, I just posted one in the Random Though Thread by clicking the "Insert/edit embedded media" button, setting it to "Flash," and just pasting the youtube link. It worked fine.

man_u_barmy_army · Sep 9, 2007

does that mean the previous youtube tags will work from past posts

Denny Crane · Sep 9, 2007

yes

previous youtube tags would work.

Arrpy · Sep 10, 2007

On the home page, where it shows the headline of the day. There should be a picture of the player/team or whatever the headline is about.

I think that would make the home page look very nice!

GMJ · Sep 10, 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane)</div><div class='quotemain'><ul>[*]Add fitness forum to the Forums page[/list]</div>

Denny Crane · Sep 10, 2007

We don't have (licensed) access to photos yet. Soon, though!

Mel JBB · Sep 10, 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane)</div><div class='quotemain'>I want to add to the discussion about the editor. SportsTwo is simply not a message board. It is a content management system with enough look/feel of a message board that people can "get it" sooner. All the posts are raw HTML, and the editor is a widely accepted on for creating HTML based documents. The editor is used in all kinds of software that rivals vbulletin - including WordPress, Drupal, and dozens of others. It's simple enough that you can just click and type in simple posts, but it's also got all the tools to create "posts" that are visually quite beyond what we're used to from traditional message boards. People who care to create those awesome visual kinds of posts will, and people who want to converse with all the other great people who are now using the site won't. The choice is there. We also feature blogs, which are the ideal way for people to create and promote the highest quality of posts/articles.

The editor does feel like a word processor, but I'm not seeing that people are having a hard time making posts. The issue of the enter key inserting an extra new line makes sense after first glance. You're inserting a paragraph break, not a line break (shift-enter inserts a line break). Paragraphs are separated by a blank line. Make sense? The benefit of using pure HTML and this editor is that you can paste content from other sites and (mostly) not lose the formatting. You're copying and pasting stuff that has HTML paragraph tags.</div>
I've always been a plain-text / straightup html kinda guy, so I could get the coding absolutely perfect. I'm cool with the idea of having a WYSIWYG editor, but my browser seems to be struggling with it. I notice a significant lag to my browser when I scroll down up and down a page. Here's what I propose:

* by default, have a Simplified WYSIWYG editor with only the basic controls (bold, italics, list, url, color, fontsize and smilies).
* have an option for an Advanced WYSIWYG editor that'll display all controls.
* have an option for a plain text mode that'll respect single-line breaks
* and then maybe: have an option for pure html source code.

I pride myself in my Core 2 Duo Mac, and I hate to see it struggle on scrolling down a webpage. Especially on a site that I plan on using a lot. Slow pageloads and page scrolling can easily be a dealbreaker for visitors. (Are any of you guys experincing lag as well?)

With a simplified WYSIWYG editor, I think that'll be fine for the general public. A plain text mode would be great for people with slower computers, and guys that are fine with plain text. (Consider this: millions of people are totally cool with plain text email. Even the most popular Web 2.0 sites and blog software out there support plain text mode)

That final option for pure html source code is....well, for html code monkeys like me. I know I'm a more OCD than others when it comes to formatting text/html, so I'd make this one the lowest priority out of the bunch.

NTC · Sep 11, 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mel JBB)</div><div class='quotemain'>I pride myself in my Core 2 Duo Mac, and I hate to see it struggle on scrolling down a webpage. Especially on a site that I plan on using a lot. Slow pageloads and page scrolling can easily be a dealbreaker for visitors. (Are any of you guys experincing lag as well?)</div>

Yep,amongothercopiusamountsofotheriritatingproblemswhenitcomestomakingapost

GMJ · Sep 11, 2007

Maybe its my resolution (really high) but I don't suffer any sort of lag on this site. That or I just don't notice it.

durvasa · Sep 12, 2007

I would suggest making the preview button more prominent. I didn't realize it even existing until just a little while ago. When I make long posts or posts with any embedded media/links, I almost always use the preview before submitting. I think it should be easier to locate.

Denny Crane · Sep 12, 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mel JBB)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane)</div><div class='quotemain'>I want to add to the discussion about the editor. SportsTwo is simply not a message board. It is a content management system with enough look/feel of a message board that people can "get it" sooner. All the posts are raw HTML, and the editor is a widely accepted on for creating HTML based documents. The editor is used in all kinds of software that rivals vbulletin - including WordPress, Drupal, and dozens of others. It's simple enough that you can just click and type in simple posts, but it's also got all the tools to create "posts" that are visually quite beyond what we're used to from traditional message boards. People who care to create those awesome visual kinds of posts will, and people who want to converse with all the other great people who are now using the site won't. The choice is there. We also feature blogs, which are the ideal way for people to create and promote the highest quality of posts/articles.

The editor does feel like a word processor, but I'm not seeing that people are having a hard time making posts. The issue of the enter key inserting an extra new line makes sense after first glance. You're inserting a paragraph break, not a line break (shift-enter inserts a line break). Paragraphs are separated by a blank line. Make sense? The benefit of using pure HTML and this editor is that you can paste content from other sites and (mostly) not lose the formatting. You're copying and pasting stuff that has HTML paragraph tags.</div>
I've always been a plain-text / straightup html kinda guy, so I could get the coding absolutely perfect. I'm cool with the idea of having a WYSIWYG editor, but my browser seems to be struggling with it. I notice a significant lag to my browser when I scroll down up and down a page. Here's what I propose:

* by default, have a Simplified WYSIWYG editor with only the basic controls (bold, italics, list, url, color, fontsize and smilies).
* have an option for an Advanced WYSIWYG editor that'll display all controls.
* have an option for a plain text mode that'll respect single-line breaks
* and then maybe: have an option for pure html source code.

I pride myself in my Core 2 Duo Mac, and I hate to see it struggle on scrolling down a webpage. Especially on a site that I plan on using a lot. Slow pageloads and page scrolling can easily be a dealbreaker for visitors. (Are any of you guys experincing lag as well?)

With a simplified WYSIWYG editor, I think that'll be fine for the general public. A plain text mode would be great for people with slower computers, and guys that are fine with plain text. (Consider this: millions of people are totally cool with plain text email. Even the most popular Web 2.0 sites and blog software out there support plain text mode)

That final option for pure html source code is....well, for html code monkeys like me. I know I'm a more OCD than others when it comes to formatting text/html, so I'd make this one the lowest priority out of the bunch.</div>

There are other editor options that we can explore. This one is just so widely used that I felt it was the safest choice.

I do know it's a monster - over 145K gzipped. There are some that are much smaller and likely a lot faster.

Bahir · Sep 13, 2007

Ideas:

1. Make it so that you can sort a forum by [the options below (that can be found at the top of each forum)]. The default setting should of course remain as it is
<table border="0" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0" width="100%" class="forumlist"><tbody><tr><th>Title/Description</th> <th>Created</th> <th>Edited</th> <th>Threads</th> <th>Posts</th> <th>Views</th></tr></tbody></table>

2. A button for marking all posts (at the whole forum, and perhaps another one for a specific section) as read. We had this feature at JBB and it was great because then it was easier to spot new posts the next time you logged in. 

3. Fold out menus? From the bar at the top, does anyone think that it is a good idea to have fold out menus? So, for example, instead of listing all teams in one window, you could have just one option that says "Teams", and hovering the pointer above it causes an additional menu with all the teams on it, to fold out. Likewise, every (or just the major ones) section that has a lot of sub-folders, could have the same thing, so that you could either just click on the main button for that forum, or hover the pointer over it to get a fold-out menu of all the sub-folders that belong to that section. I think that would simplify navigation a whole lot.

4. The "Preview" post feature. Is it just me or does the preview window not make a real, exact preview of how your post will look like when you post it?

Denny Crane · Sep 13, 2007

1. Good idea, it's now on my list

2. Another good idea, also on my list.

3. Can do a new menu system. This is one I'd kick the can down the road on, though, as we're clearly going to have to deal with even more content over time (boxing, wnba, arena football, ncaa basketball, etc., etc.). The menus we have now will need to be reworked in any case. 

4. It's not an exact preview, since we do some server-side processing to do things like ![youtube] and !

tags. Not sure if there's anything else that's rendered incorrectly. We can do a vb3 style preview, but it wouldn't be super high priority for the next couple weeks at least.




Click to expand...

Arrpy · Sep 13, 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GMJigga)</div><div class='quotemain'>Maybe its my resolution (really high) but I don't suffer any sort of lag on this site. That or I just don't notice it.</div>

Same here. I don't suffer any lag on this site.

Denny Crane · Sep 13, 2007

Thanks for the feedback folks. I can't possibly test the site software on every combination of computer/os/browser myself; with your help I do get to see issues with a lot of such combinations.

I have been making adjustments to the part of S2 that runs in peoples' browsers with the hope it speeds things up for those users who complain about speed issues.

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