Re: Pitchers' Arms = Owned Ever wonder why pitchers arms hurt all the time?http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/photo;_ylt=ArD...&prov=getty :no1: :no1:
Re: Pitchers' Arms = Owned because coaches overpitch young pitchers like Mark Prior and Francisco Liriano (best examples in recent memory) and ruin their arms
Re: Pitchers' Arms = Owned <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (playaofthegame @ Apr 14 2007, 10:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>because coaches overpitch young pitchers like Mark Prior and Francisco Liriano (best examples in recent memory) and ruin their arms</div>Eh, I agree, and sorta don't. I hate the fact everyone is so obbssessed with pitch count, however you don't want the young guys who aren't used to it yet to jump from the Minor League innings to the MLB innings just in the rookie season, let them build it up ya know..
Re: Pitchers' Arms = Owned im not talking about pitch count...im talking about putting the stress of the MLB schedule of 162 games on a young kid and expecting him to pitch every 4 or 5 daysin the minor leagues they don't even start playing until June or July and then finish up in about 3 months..there's just too much expected out of these kids and teams depend too much on young pitchers..they should be worked into the rotation..not forced like Prior and Lirianoand I have a feeling the same thing's gonna happen to Felix Hernandez
Re: Pitchers' Arms = Owned <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MaRdYC26 @ Apr 14 2007, 08:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Eh, I agree, and sorta don't. I hate the fact everyone is so obbssessed with pitch count, however you don't want the young guys who aren't used to it yet to jump from the Minor League innings to the MLB innings just in the rookie season, let them build it up ya know..</div>Pitch count is a big deal. No one except for Livan Hernandez should ever be forced to pitch more than 110 times almost every game. And with all the different types of pitches they throw...that's brutal.
Re: Pitchers' Arms = Owned <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (playaofthegame @ Apr 14 2007, 09:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>because coaches overpitch young pitchers like Mark Prior and Francisco Liriano (best examples in recent memory) and ruin their arms</div>Don't pretend like you know what you're talking about with Liriano. He wasn't overpitched. In fact, he came into the minors as an outfielder. He just has arm problems, probably due to the stress of his delivery.Also, Liriano wasn't forced into the rotation. His first two stints in the big leagues he was in the bullpen.
Re: Pitchers' Arms = Owned A better example would be Kerry would. Dusty Baker destroyed his pitchers and came pretty close to doing the same with Zambrano.
Re: Pitchers' Arms = Owned <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ASUFan22 @ Apr 14 2007, 11:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Pitch count is a big deal. No one except for Livan Hernandez should ever be forced to pitch more than 110 times almost every game. And with all the different types of pitches they throw...that's brutal.</div>Don't give me that. Today's pitchers are babies. Back in the days when guys like Walter Johnson, Bob Feller, etc were pitching, you were expected to go the full 9 innings. These guys threw up to sometimes 150+ in games. Most teams also didn't have 5 men rotations, or the advancements in science and medicine like today.
Re: Pitchers' Arms = Owned <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Captain @ Apr 15 2007, 08:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Don't give me that. Today's pitchers are babies. Back in the days when guys like Walter Johnson, Bob Feller, etc were pitching, you were expected to go the full 9 innings. These guys threw up to sometimes 150+ in games. Most teams also didn't have 5 men rotations, or the advancements in science and medicine like today.</div>Well we've seen what happens to pitchers now with the crazy pitch counts. Only Livan Hernandez can do it and somehow seem unaffected. Probably because he rarely throws at 90 or higher. hmmm, did those older pitchers also throw 97-100mph?
Re: Pitchers' Arms = Owned <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Captain @ Apr 15 2007, 10:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Don't give me that. Today's pitchers are babies. Back in the days when guys like Walter Johnson, Bob Feller, etc were pitching, you were expected to go the full 9 innings. These guys threw up to sometimes 150+ in games. Most teams also didn't have 5 men rotations, or the advancements in science and medicine like today.</div>They probably also threw a lot of pitches that are a illegal in today's game, but didn't throw a lot of pitches that today's pitchers pitch that are causing so much injury.
Re: Pitchers' Arms = Owned [quote name='ASUFan22' post='335471' date='Apr 15 2007, 11:47 AM']Well we've seen what happens to pitchers now with the crazy pitch counts. Only Livan Hernandez can do it and somehow seem unaffected. Probably because he rarely throws at 90 or higher. hmmm, did those older pitchers also throw 97-100mph?[/quote] The first three I looked up. What? The Curveball, Slider, and Screwball were all invented in the 1800's. Of course they used them.
Re: Pitchers' Arms = Owned They baby the pitchers today more because the pitchers today make like 5-20 million a year, of course if your paying someone that much money your going to protect them as much as possible so one of your big assets doesen't get brutally hurt.
Re: Pitchers' Arms = Owned <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Captain @ Apr 15 2007, 01:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>What? The Curveball, Slider, and Screwball were all invented in the 1800's. Of course they used them.</div>Yes, I realized they pitched pitches that were named similarly to pitches that are pitched today. That doesn't mean that they pitch them the same way.
Re: Pitchers' Arms = Owned <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Justice @ Apr 15 2007, 02:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Yes, I realized they pitched pitches that were named similarly to pitches that are pitched today. That doesn't mean that they pitch them the same way.</div>Are you absolutely sure? What makes you believe it has changed?
Re: Pitchers' Arms = Owned The over-hand curveball has almost completely disappeared from the game.Over-Hand > Side or 3/4 Arm angle for health.
Re: Pitchers' Arms = Owned <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Captain @ Apr 15 2007, 11:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Don't give me that. Today's pitchers are babies. Back in the days when guys like Walter Johnson, Bob Feller, etc were pitching, you were expected to go the full 9 innings. These guys threw up to sometimes 150+ in games. Most teams also didn't have 5 men rotations, or the advancements in science and medicine like today.</div>I agree with that here. People act like once a pitcher reaches 100 pitches "LIKE OMG HE HAS TO COME OUT."
Re: Pitchers' Arms = Owned <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Captain @ Apr 15 2007, 02:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Are you absolutely sure? What makes you believe it has changed?</div>Nothing in particular. I did read something that said that curveballs were considered cheating to some extent at one point, but that doesn't mean they weren't thrown. The thing I think is silly is you have this kind of "back in my day" mentality where players back then were so much more badass and so on. That mentality is kinda silly. I mean, it's not like human anatomy has changed. I don't know if the pitching style has changed or what, but I can assure you people don't throw less because they're "babies."edit: Also what I am intending to say is not that there weren't curveballs or so on, but that they are delivered in a different manner. Show me an example of an old timey player throwing like the picture in this topic. Go ahead.
Re: Pitchers' Arms = Owned <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Justice @ Apr 15 2007, 04:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Nothing in particular. I did read something that said that curveballs were considered cheating to some extent at one point, but that doesn't mean they weren't thrown. The thing I think is silly is you have this kind of "back in my day" mentality where players back then were so much more badass and so on. That mentality is kinda silly. I mean, it's not like human anatomy has changed. I don't know if the pitching style has changed or what, but I can assure you people don't throw less because they're "babies."edit: Also what I am intending to say is not that there weren't curveballs or so on, but that they are delivered in a different manner. Show me an example of an old timey player throwing like the picture in this topic. Go ahead.</div>I guess I shouldn't have said the pitchers are babies. It has nothing to do with them. It's the people who say "Wow, 100 pitches. They better get him out of there before his arm falls off." That makes me laugh. I guess it's just the mentality in the MLB now that a pitcher shouldn't go more than 7 innings or throw more than 100 pitches because he'll hurt himself. Look at Matsuzaka. In Japan, he once threw a 250 pitch, 17 inning game one day, got the save in the next game, and then threw a no-hitter in the next. That would NEVER EVER EVER happen here.There is no way I am going to find any pictures like that because the photography was so poor back then. No zoom, bad quality, and they rarely took action photos. That picture is also deceiving. Take a picture at the right time and everyone's arm will look like that. When you throw a ball, you get that whip action.Please, I want some evidence that curves, sliders and the like were thrown different back then. If you find something, I'll believe you.
Re: Pitchers' Arms = Owned People say that because the great pitchers that have been overused recently have been injured. And kids in little league and high school ball get arm problems too that early because of overpitching and throwing the different pitches. I don't think it's that bad if you throw over 130 for a few starts, but to throw over 120 pitches early in your career, for over 30-35 starts is murder on your arm and it has been proven with the injuries. Some people can do it but why risk a great young pitcher's career? If your bullpen is decent they shouldn't be forced to pitch over 7 or 8 innings unless they have the shutout going. Then you award them with that.
