<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Rod:</div><div class="quote_post">Anyway this was not really my point,my point was that Carter has done about 70% of the job - he done almost everything when it comes to scoring,Kidd is one of my Favorite players but he did'nt have such a great season and when your team needs to score 90 points in order to have a chance to win i don't think that anyone trusted Kidd to be a part of scoring in good %. Kidd might have been a nice help for Carter but at the end of the day it comes to who is putting the ball in the hole and without Carter they would'nt be in the playoffs and that what makes him not overrated at all.</div> well said...but again,this survey was done at the beginning of the season...wen vince was still a raptor,i believe...i bet if it's done after the season....results with be the other way around...
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Oh yea? why was Marbury no better then Kidd??? he was efficiant on the court more then kidd and he can shoot the ball better then him. And why did'nt Francis had a better season then Kidd?</div> Kidd made the playoffs. Marbury, Francis all watched. There respective teams were not that much worse, and I think Francis had a better team. Kidd wins and that's the best statistic there is.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting nextlevelgame:</div><div class="quote_post">Kidd made the playoffs. Marbury, Francis all watched. There respective teams were not that much worse, and I think Francis had a better team. Kidd wins and that's the best statistic there is.</div> And here is the trick in all of that: Kidd had a 31 ppg Guard by his side for a helf of season and Francis and Marbury - did'nt. Youre just prooving my point by pointing out that NJ made the playoffs, but from that we can understand that NJ got there by getting into the 8th spot in the east but before all of that they had a record the same or worse then the Knicks and Orlando. i'm not saying that Kidd is not a good PG but i am saying that a PG like Kidd needs someone who will take the shoot for him (unlike Arenas,billups etc...) and thats why Carter is much more important for the Nets - rememmber the olympics,at the end of the day its all about who is able to get the ball in the hole.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Rod:</div><div class="quote_post">And here is the trick in all of that: Kidd had a 31 ppg Guard by his side for a helf of season and Francis and Marbury - did'nt. Youre just prooving my point by pointing out that NJ made the playoffs, but from that we can understand that NJ got there by getting into the 8th spot in the east but before all of that they had a record the same or worse then the Knicks and Orlando. i'm not saying that Kidd is not a good PG but i am saying that a PG like Kidd needs someone who will take the shoot for him (unlike Arenas,billups etc...) and thats why Carter is much more important for the Nets - rememmber the olympics,at the end of the day its all about who is able to get the ball in the hole.</div> Kidd had a 27 PPG Guard by his side. Your arguement is wack. You're ignoring the fact that Kidd is thebest all around PG in the league because he was #1 in the league in TD's with 8 in only 66 games. You're saying that Kidd is did well because he had a scorer with him. Well that's his job. He's a PG not a SG. Arenas, Francis and many others are just SG's playing as PG's. How do you figure he has a 9.3 APG average, where this year he averaged below his career average in assists, despite having VC on the team? Last season he had 9+ Assists. He didn't have Carter, and he led the team to the 2nd seed in the East. How did he do that? RJ wasn't a legit goto guy then, and K-Mart isn't the past half court offensive big man. Think before you start up with a stupid arguement.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">As to Knight i said MAYBE!! he had like 9 assists per game and he gave great D, because he played like such a true PG for more time then Kidd on this season i named him there.</div> Knight is actually a bad defender because of his lack of height and strength. He also doesn't have athletic ability to cover for it, so his defense outside of being able to pick passing lanes and double down to get steals is not good. Also Francis and Marbury are bad defenders....Kidd was a an All NBA defender.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Banks:</div><div class="quote_post">Kidd had a 27 PPG Guard by his side. Your arguement is wack. You're ignoring the fact that Kidd is thebest all around PG in the league because he was #1 in the league in TD's with 8 in only 66 games. You're saying that Kidd is did well because he had a scorer with him. Well that's his job. He's a PG not a SG. Arenas, Francis and many others are just SG's playing as PG's. How do you figure he has a 9.3 APG average, where this year he averaged below his career average in assists, despite having VC on the team? Last season he had 9+ Assists. He didn't have Carter, and he led the team to the 2nd seed in the East. How did he do that? RJ wasn't a legit goto guy then, and K-Mart isn't the past half court offensive big man. Think before you start up with a stupid arguement.</div> For the 100th time - im not saying that Kidd is not a goodefficiant player - he is a great player,he had a bad playoffs,he missed a big part of the season but all im saying is that even if Kidd was responsible for alot of work Carter was still the main factor. I did'nt really mean that Carter did the entire job and i regret writing that( even though Kidd was a big disappointment at the playoff aginst Miami) but the point is that without Carter the Nets are'nt worth alot - he is their MVP and had a huge impact on that team he is not overrated at all and thats the topic of this thread. Francis is a PG - he is just a diffrent type of PG that gets diffrent demends. And im gonna be a little kid on this one too and say that youre arguement is stupid! Kidd had a great team by him least year - he had a great team on his hand both offensivly and defensivly - don't under estimate all-stars like K-mart and Jefferson and not even Kittels who played pretty good last year - Kidd led this great group who was coached very well just like any GOOD player would do,remmember that i already said i think he is good player and that last season he was even better?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting og15:</div><div class="quote_post">Knight is actually a bad defender because of his lack of height and strength. He also doesn't have athletic ability to cover for it, so his defense outside of being able to pick passing lanes and double down to get steals is not good. Also Francis and Marbury are bad defenders....Kidd was a an All NBA defender.</div> About Knight - he played more games then Kidd so that why i said he had a great season with a bad team, i kinda said he is a good defender because that is the impression i got from reading stuff on the press so Knight is off and Billups will take his place on that list ok? I saw Kidd's defence in the playoffs and i must Admit that i was not too impressed, Francis and Marbury would probably do the same job - i did'nt see such deffrence...
Oh yeah, he's over-rated, yet he didn't even make ALL-NBA 1st, 2nd, or 3rd TEAM!!! The guy averaged 27.5 Points Per Game, 4.7 APG, and 5.9 RPG on 46.2% shooting in New Jersey, not to mention his career best 42.5% shooting from 3-Point Range. This guy is over rated? He posted a statline that looks like that in his last 57 games and doesn't even make an ALL-NBA team, and he's over-rated? Someone explain to me how that works because that sounds quite absurd to me!
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Rod:</div><div class="quote_post">About Knight - he played more games then Kidd so that why i said he had a great season with a bad team, i kinda said he is a good defender because that is the impression i got from reading stuff on the press so Knight is off and Billups will take his place on that list ok? I saw Kidd's defence in the playoffs and i must Admit that i was not too impressed, Francis and Marbury would probably do the same job - i did'nt see such deffrence...</div> Brevin Knight actually did use to be a nice on ball defender, when he was with the Cavs, but since then Point Guards have gotten much stronger. And the position is much more pshyical so his type of defense doesnt have the same impact it did. He isnt the type of defender that can keep you from scoring,but he can put pressure on a dribbler before he gets the team into their offensive sets. And cause turnovers. But if you are a pg guard that knows how to protect the basketball against pressure then Knight's defense doesnt effect you that much. As far as Kidd's defense goes I admit you are right in the aspect that it isnt as impressive as some may lead you to believe. But that is only because some people act like he is a great man to man defender on the ball. And he really isnt. What he is? is a great defender in the team concept. He is an excellent help defender, he plays the passing lanes well. And is a great defensive rebounding guard, all things that are key for the team defensive concept. But Kidd isnt going to shut guys down one on one, that is why he had a hard time covering Wade in the playoffs.
People do seem to forget that Kidd had the most Tripple-Doubles, perhaps the most telling stat of all. While other point guards had better seasons in many different ways, many of them cant dream of having one tripple-double, let alone 8 (i think). That stat is definitely worth something more than just points or assists. Kidd will perhaps have a much better season next year, whether it be with New Jersey or elsewhere. He is due to get into a good position for winning. As for Yao Ming,I have always been of the opinion that he is over-rated. I just really dont think much of him. I think that Shaquille O'Neal, Ben Wallace, Amare Stoudemire, and Brad Miller are all better centers. The only way Yao really is better than any of these players is that he can score better than Wallace, but thats it. Shaq , while he hasn't been great lately, can still take over as the most-dominant player in the game. Ben Wallace is the best defensive player in the league, and his rebounding outmatches any center's. Amare Stoudamire is a scoring and blocking machine, what more needs to be said. And Brad Miller was very ably putting up at least 35 and 10 when it was just him and Bibby on the court for a while. Yao has some great games, but they are few, and he is often getting in foul trouble. He seems to be in pretty bad conditioning, so he cannot stay out on the court for extended periods of time, when he isn't in foul trouble. And it usually seems to me that if doesn't start off the game playing well and scoring, It just isn't going to happen. In other words he cant get himself going later in the game, and he cant use himself in other ways when he cant score. He is a good center, and can get better, and i will say that he was more over-hyped than he is over-rated. It was kind unfair to be expected to be the next Shaq.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">And here is the trick in all of that: Kidd had a 31 ppg Guard by his side for a helf of season and Francis and Marbury - did'nt.</div> Francis had Grant Hill who was hell of a player. He had Dwight Howard, an athletic gift who got a double-double player every night. Kidd led the Nets in rebounding. He had Mobley for awhile who was also a 20 a night scorer. Between Hill and Mobley that is one hell of a scoring punch, and I'm not even counting Francis' 20 a night nor Dwight's 10-15. He even had a legit back up in Jameer, way better than the PG rotation the Nets had. The Knicks were on the top of the Atlantic early on and they started slipping when Marbury claimed himself to the best PG in the league. That's why they lose, cause he's a bonehead who thinks of no one else but himself. He probably gets the most phony assists of any point gaurd in the league. He doesn't pass it unless he's sure the guy can get the basket for his stats. Marbury can shoot better than Kidd. Unfortunately it has gotten him no where. Some PGs like Nash find the balance but are still pass first and they win. Marbury is just a chronic boneheaded loser. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Youre just prooving my point by pointing out that NJ made the playoffs, but from that we can understand that NJ got there by getting into the 8th spot in the east but before all of that they had a record the same or worse then the Knicks and Orlando.</div> That just didn't make any sense. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">i'm not saying that Kidd is not a good PG but i am saying that a PG like Kidd needs someone who will take the shoot for him (unlike Arenas,billups etc...) and thats why Carter is much more important for the Nets - rememmber the olympics,at the end of the day its all about who is able to get the ball in the hole.</div> Puts the ball in the hole? Your precious Marbury was on that Olympic team and he couldn't put the ball in the hole. And that was not the problem of the team. The team couldn't play a team concept. How many scorers were on that team? If any NBA team headlined Tim Duncan, Amare Stoudemire, LeBron James, and Iverson, how many would say this team would not win a championship? That's what I thought. Kidd is the best player on this team. Even Vince admits to Jason being the best player on the team. Furthermore, Vince said that it'll always be Kidd's team and he is helping him. Kidd keeps the engine going. If you think Jason didn't have one word to say to Vince when he got here about his crap playing in the beginning of the season, you are sincerely mistaken. If Kidd wasn't here, the Nets would probably not even come close to the playoffs.
Whatever... i feel kinda stupid about debating if Kidd had a 60% or a 40% impact on that team. The olympics team did'nt win because the players only cares about winning if they get a lot of money or if theyre playing for an NBA title or it was them players being tired or it was the team's chimistry or it was Brown's coaching or it was all of the above... i'm out!
Haven't visited this thread in a while.. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Rod:</div><div class="quote_post"> Francis is a PG - he is just a diffrent type of PG that gets diffrent demends. And im gonna be a little kid on this one too and say that youre arguement is stupid! Kidd had a great team by him least year - he had a great team on his hand both offensivly and defensivly - don't under estimate all-stars like K-mart and Jefferson and not even Kittels who played pretty good last year - Kidd led this great group who was coached very well just like any GOOD player would do,remmember that i already said i think he is good player and that last season he was even better?</div> I wouldn't be too surprised if you actually weer a little kid, because it feels like I'm arguing with one. On top of that I don't really get what you're saying...You keep chaning your arguement about Kidd. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Whatever... i feel kinda stupid about debating if Kidd had a 60% or a 40% impact on that team. The olympics team did'nt win because the players only cares about winning if they get a lot of money or if theyre playing for an NBA title or it was them players being tired or it was the team's chimistry or it was Brown's coaching or it was all of the above... i'm out! </div> Wise move...
Vince Carter overrated???????????? what a shame some <font color="Red">edit</font> here feel that way. Now let me get this staright.... First of all, those votes were taking at the begining of the season when carter was averaginh 15 ppg with the raptors. Got it everyone? For some people here who still think he's overrated take his 27/6/5 with NJ plus making da playoff and <font color="Red">edit</font> As for the people who think Kidd had the most impact on NJ this year, go read Kidd interview when he was asked what was going in his mind when vince went to the locker room injured in their final game against Boston? He was praying for vince to come back. Not taking anything away from kidd, but wihtout vince he could've been traded. You'll NJ fans should thank him for that and not discredit his effort after taking this <font color="Red">edit</font> team to the playoff and call him overrated.. Vince with NJ has been an all around player i dont care what anyone say, he plays alot smarter, have a better understanding of basketball. Why do u all blame him for taking bad shots? Kobe does too, tmac does too, AI does too.......and it's not like those guys shoot better % than him..BS i havent been here for a while, but im back now and i'll make sure no one discredit this guy anymore. Bring it on haters, lets see what u say next <font color="Red">Please watch your language, if you can not express yourself without using such language then Justbball isnt the place for you-Henacy </font>
<font face="Courier New">I apologize Henacy, i havent been here for a long time so i forgot about those justball rules. Sorry again everybody, it wasnt my intention to be rude or anything. Just was a little mad, that's all, sorry again..hope we move on </font>
