If its about getting money in the mean time, don't players have the option of going to the NBDL or even playing overseas? It may not be NBA money, but surely it's enough to significantly help an "impoverished" family. No, this isn't about alleviating impoverishment, but rather getting filthy rich as quickly as possible.
I agree with grinder333, I don't think the age limit went far enough; I would have loved to have seen it set at 20. I've yet to hear a compelling argument for allowing kids to come into the league at 18. Here are all the arguments I've heard and why I don't think they're valid. Argument #1: If kids can compete professionally at gymnastics, golf, ice skating, baseball, hockey, etc. when they're 18 or under, why not basketball? Answer: It has to do with physical/mental maturity. Most 18 year olds aren't physically capable of dealing with the rigors of playing in the NBA. Sure there are genetic freaks like Lebron and Amare, but for the most part they just aren't physically developed yet. As for the mental aspect, those sports don't create instant millionaires the way basketball does. It's a difficult thing to go from having no money to making $50k a year; it's exponentially more difficult to all of a sudden be a millionaire. For those of you over 18, think of how you were at 18, how little you knew about the world then compared to what you know now. For those of you under 18, imagine having gorgeous women throwing themselves at you every night, hoping to get pregnant so they can sue you for child support. Street agents who you'd looked up to all your life now coming at you with their hand out. Hustlers coming to you with bogus "investments." Relatives popping up wanting their cut. These are just a few of the pitfalls a new, young millionaire will have to deal with. I'm nearly 28 and I don't know how I'd deal with it, I can't imagine trying to deal with it at 18. Argument #2: Guys enter the draft because they're in a bad economic situation. Answer: If money is the main concern, the NBDL is playing guys $50k. If that's not enough, club teams in Europe pay considerably more. The NBA raising the age limit to 19 doesn't banish the athlete to poverty, it just means you can't make your money in that league. Argument #3: The athlete shouldn't be forced to risk injury. Answer: Every guy that's ever played college ball has risked injury. Jordan risked it at UNC, Alcindor risked it at UCLA, Duncan risked it at Wake Forest. If a player is concerned about injury, they should do what Willis McGahee did, get insurance. Argument #4: Any age limit is a policy born of racism. Answer: I don't really have an answer to this because I need someone to explain this argument me. Race is always a delicate topic, so I hesitate to bring it up, but since Flames brought it up, I thought I'd mention it. All I'll say though is that I'd like whoever thinks the policy is racist to explain their position. Oh, and to answer Flames' question: Robert Swift is a white player that was drafted out of high school by Seattle last year. Argument #5: If they kids are old enough to vote, go to war, they should be able to play basketball. As durvasa mentioned, just because the NBA says you can't play in their league before you're 19, that doesn't mean the player can't make his living playing basketball. There are minor leagues in the US, European leagues, and now the NBDL will allow 18 year olds to play. Answer: If athletes think it's unfair, they should look back to the 1960's when Lew Alcidor (Kareem Abdul-Jabbar) was a legend in NY playgrounds and high school hoops. He absolutely dominated everywhere he went and would have certainly been the #1 pick had he been allowed to go pro out of high school. Guess what, not did Alcindor not go pro right away, NCAA regulations didn't even allow freshman to play on their varsity teams. So Alcindor paid his dues his freshman year, playing on the freshman team, then played three years on UCLA's varsity and turned pro. Why is it you never hear people complaining about Alcindor not being able to pro out of high school? Because it wasn't an option back then. Somehow, between 1966 and 2005, in some people's eyes, entering the NBA draft transformed from a non-option to a god-given right. Going pro in the NBA is a privilege, not a right. Now to be fair, I don't buy the argument that players should be grateful for the opportunity to go to college because they're getting an education. I was a D-1 athlete in college and can tell you first hand that it's a farce to say the college's primary motivation is educating their athletes. Classes are arranged around practice schedules, students are told what the easiest majors are, which classes in that major are the easiest, and which professors teaching those classes are the easiest. Often times this is done when the student doesn't care about his education and the coach doesn't care about education the student. The only thing a coach cares about in some cases is keeping the athlete eligible. I'd prefer to see colleges be allowed to pay their athletes/co-sign for loans. The colleges make a lot of money off their basketball players, it's only fair that the athletes get a part of the profits. But that's an argument for a different thread.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Argument #2: Guys enter the draft because they're in a bad economic situation. Answer: If money is the main concern, the NBDL is playing guys $50k. If that's not enough, club teams in Europe pay considerably more. The NBA raising the age limit to 19 doesn't banish the athlete to poverty, it just means you can't make your money in that league. </div> If a plyer can play in the NBDL, he should be physicaly mature for the NBa as well, it is not much of a difference. The NBDL isn't much different from the NBA, the talent level is just off. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Answer: If athletes think it's unfair, they should look back to the 1960's when Lew Alcidor (Kareem Abdul-Jabbar) was a legend in NY playgrounds and high school hoops. He absolutely dominated everywhere he went and would have certainly been the #1 pick had he been allowed to go pro out of high school. Guess what, not did Alcindor not go pro right away, NCAA regulations didn't even allow freshman to play on their varsity teams. So Alcindor paid his dues his freshman year, playing on the freshman team, then played three years on UCLA's varsity and turned pro. Why is it you never hear people complaining about Alcindor not being able to pro out of high school? Because it wasn't an option back then. Somehow, between 1966 and 2005, in some people's eyes, entering the NBA draft transformed from a non-option to a god-given right. Going pro in the NBA is a privilege, not a right.</div> Times have changed, the NBA is a bigger business now and these high school kids are on a different level when it comes to athletic ability and that?s what the people want to see. Your right, going into the NBA is a privilege, so what is your answer when players that have earned this privilege are deprived from their right to skip college and go straight to the NBA? My main this is, what is a 19 year old age limit going to do, the players who wanted to go straight out of high school to the NBA might end up staying at college for one year, and that might not accomplish anything because you can't get you degree in one year in college. Also, at the money management thing with young dudes, that?s why you hire a consultant that helps you manage and invest your money and makes sure you stay focused and away from temptation. You are a legal adult at the age of 18 am I right? If you are a legal adult, and are physically ready for the task of the NBA, why should you be denied the opportunity to play in the NBA, you sure won't be denied when you sign up for the military or the army.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting wtwalker77:</div><div class="quote_post">I agree with grinder333, I don't think the age limit went far enough; I would have loved to have seen it set at 20. I've yet to hear a compelling argument for allowing kids to come into the league at 18. Here are all the arguments I've heard and why I don't think they're valid. Argument #1: If kids can compete professionally at gymnastics, golf, ice skating, baseball, hockey, etc. when they're 18 or under, why not basketball? Answer: It has to do with physical/mental maturity. Most 18 year olds aren't physically capable of dealing with the rigors of playing in the NBA. Sure there are genetic freaks like Lebron and Amare, but for the most part they just aren't physically developed yet. As for the mental aspect, those sports don't create instant millionaires the way basketball does. It's a difficult thing to go from having no money to making $50k a year; it's exponentially more difficult to all of a sudden be a millionaire. For those of you over 18, think of how you were at 18, how little you knew about the world then compared to what you know now. For those of you under 18, imagine having gorgeous women throwing themselves at you every night, hoping to get pregnant so they can sue you for child support. Street agents who you'd looked up to all your life now coming at you with their hand out. Hustlers coming to you with bogus "investments." Relatives popping up wanting their cut. These are just a few of the pitfalls a new, young millionaire will have to deal with. I'm nearly 28 and I don't know how I'd deal with it, I can't imagine trying to deal with it at 18. Argument #2: Guys enter the draft because they're in a bad economic situation. Answer: If money is the main concern, the NBDL is playing guys $50k. If that's not enough, club teams in Europe pay considerably more. The NBA raising the age limit to 19 doesn't banish the athlete to poverty, it just means you can't make your money in that league. Argument #3: The athlete shouldn't be forced to risk injury. Answer: Every guy that's ever played college ball has risked injury. Jordan risked it at UNC, Alcindor risked it at UCLA, Duncan risked it at Wake Forest. If a player is concerned about injury, they should do what Willis McGahee did, get insurance. Argument #4: Any age limit is a policy born of racism. Answer: I don't really have an answer to this because I need someone to explain this argument me. Race is always a delicate topic, so I hesitate to bring it up, but since Flames brought it up, I thought I'd mention it. All I'll say though is that I'd like whoever thinks the policy is racist to explain their position. Oh, and to answer Flames' question: Robert Swift is a white player that was drafted out of high school by Seattle last year. Argument #5: If they kids are old enough to vote, go to war, they should be able to play basketball. As durvasa mentioned, just because the NBA says you can't play in their league before you're 19, that doesn't mean the player can't make his living playing basketball. There are minor leagues in the US, European leagues, and now the NBDL will allow 18 year olds to play. Answer: If athletes think it's unfair, they should look back to the 1960's when Lew Alcidor (Kareem Abdul-Jabbar) was a legend in NY playgrounds and high school hoops. He absolutely dominated everywhere he went and would have certainly been the #1 pick had he been allowed to go pro out of high school. Guess what, not did Alcindor not go pro right away, NCAA regulations didn't even allow freshman to play on their varsity teams. So Alcindor paid his dues his freshman year, playing on the freshman team, then played three years on UCLA's varsity and turned pro. Why is it you never hear people complaining about Alcindor not being able to pro out of high school? Because it wasn't an option back then. Somehow, between 1966 and 2005, in some people's eyes, entering the NBA draft transformed from a non-option to a god-given right. Going pro in the NBA is a privilege, not a right. Now to be fair, I don't buy the argument that players should be grateful for the opportunity to go to college because they're getting an education. I was a D-1 athlete in college and can tell you first hand that it's a farce to say the college's primary motivation is educating their athletes. Classes are arranged around practice schedules, students are told what the easiest majors are, which classes in that major are the easiest, and which professors teaching those classes are the easiest. Often times this is done when the student doesn't care about his education and the coach doesn't care about education the student. The only thing a coach cares about in some cases is keeping the athlete eligible. I'd prefer to see colleges be allowed to pay their athletes/co-sign for loans. The colleges make a lot of money off their basketball players, it's only fair that the athletes get a part of the profits. But that's an argument for a different thread.</div> Was Robert Swift the first white player ever drafted out of HS?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Flames:</div><div class="quote_post">This is all made on racism in my opinion.Whens the last time a white high school player has been drafted right out of high school?Forget college they can get their degree online if they want.</div> Wow, thank you Mr. O'Neal. I doubt it's racism. There are plenty of white people in the NFL and they can't get drafted into the NFL until they've done college for two years. The age limit is there to prevent under-developed players from entering the league. Good idea to have one.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting B-22:</div><div class="quote_post">If a plyer can play in the NBDL, he should be physicaly mature for the NBa as well, it is not much of a difference. The NBDL isn't much different from the NBA, the talent level is just off.</div> No it's not much of a difference, but the point of the NBDL is to develop the player, not try to win a championship. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting B-22:</div><div class="quote_post">Times have changed, the NBA is a bigger business now and these high school kids are on a different level when it comes to athletic ability and that?s what the people want to see. Your right, going into the NBA is a privilege, so what is your answer when players that have earned this privilege are deprived from their right to skip college and go straight to the NBA?</div> That's exactly my point when I say it's a privilege, not a right. You can't earn a privilege, it's something the league bestows on you. Reread your response and you'll see. You still tried to say players were denied a right. When you try and say "deprive from their privilege to skip college..." it just doesn't work. It's exactly this sense of entitlement from young players that's been so detrimental to the league. And as far as the "different level" when it comes to athletic ability, guys like Chamberlain and Alcindor were just as physically dominant over their competition back then as guys like Amare and Lebron are now. The only difference is the general improvement in training regimens across the board. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting B-22:</div><div class="quote_post">My main this is, what is a 19 year old age limit going to do, the players who wanted to go straight out of high school to the NBA might end up staying at college for one year, and that might not accomplish anything because you can't get you degree in one year in college.</div> As I said, it's a farce to think most high level basketball players are going to college to get an education. They don't want an education and the colleges aren't really interested in giving them one. The NCAA has just been the de facto minor league for the NBA because it didn't have a real one. Take education out of the equation, because no one cares what type of education these guys get in one year of college. The reasons they're there (at least the one the NBA has for making the rule, whether or not they'd admit it) are to 1) improve their skills, 2) develop physically and mentally, and 3) give NBA teams another year to evaluate them. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting B-22:</div><div class="quote_post">Also, at the money management thing with young dudes, that?s why you hire a consultant that helps you manage and invest your money and makes sure you stay focused and away from temptation.</div> My point is that unless the kid has a solid core of family and friends who honestly have their best interests in mind, they're going to get taken advantage of no matter who their agent is. Leigh Steinberg (probably the most ethical agent in the business) has a support program for all his clients to help them deal with their new found wealth, but even he admits that there is only so much influence he can wield. If dishonest people have the player's ear, they're going to take his money and there's nothing Steinberg can do about it. If you don't believe me, just do a google seach for Tank Black. He's a former agent who was convicted of defrauding his clients of over 14 million. AND HE'S AN AGENT! The guy who is supposed to be protecting these players' financial interests. There are countless stories out there of athletes being defrauded by their friends and "business managers." Here's a link to one of the Tank Black articles. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting B-22:</div><div class="quote_post">You are a legal adult at the age of 18 am I right? If you are a legal adult, and are physically ready for the task of the NBA, why should you be denied the opportunity to play in the NBA, you sure won't be denied when you sign up for the military or the army.</div> Of course you're a legal adult at 18, but what does that have to do with anything? There is no law that says you have the right to play in the NBA as an 18 year old. If the NBA was the only professional basketball league, you might have an argument that the NBA is preventing someone from earning a living, but that's not the case. I fully admit that there is going to be a guy every year or two who is physically ready and gets screwed over by the process, but that's life. Since '95 (when Garnett came into the league), I'd say there have only been four high schoolers who have been physically able to come into the league: Garnett, Amare, Lebron, and Dwight Howard. Every other player has had to gain a significant amount of strength, if not muscle mass. When you look at the reason 18 years is the legal age of adulthood in the U.S., my argument makes sense. The government chose 18 years old as the arbitrary age of adulthood for the purposes of U.S. laws. There isn't anything magical that happens on your 18th birthday that suddenly turns you into a man. The physical, mental, and emotional difference between someone when they are 17 years and 364 days old and when they are 18 years old is just as miniscule as the difference between being 18 years old and 18 years and 1 day old. The U.S. government believes you're an adult when you're 18, the Jewish faith says it?s when you're 14, the NBA says it's when you're 19. So which age is right? The answer is that they all are for the purposes for which the definition was originally made. Are there guys under 18 who are phsyically, mentally, and emotionally ready to enter the military? Absolutely. To vote? Absoultely. Does the government knowingly let them do it? Absolutely not. How is this any different than the NBA prohibiting the occasional guy under 18, who is ready to come into the league, from entering it?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting miamiballa12:</div><div class="quote_post">Was Robert Swift the first white player ever drafted out of HS?</div> To the best of my knowledge, yes. '95: Garnett '96: Kobe, Jermaine '97: McGrady '98: Lewis, Harrington, Korleone Young (the first bust) '99: Bender, Leon Smith '00: Miles, Stevenson '01: Brown, Curry, Chandler, Diop, Cisse '02: Amare '03: Lebron, Outlaw, Ebi, Perkins, James Lang '04: Howard, Livingston, Swift, Telfair, Jefferson, Josh Smith, JR Smith, Dorrell Wright
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting wtwalker77:</div><div class="quote_post">To the best of my knowledge, yes. '95: Garnett '96: Kobe, Jermaine '97: McGrady '98: Lewis, Harrington, Korleone Young (the first bust) '99: Bender, Leon Smith '00: Miles, Stevenson '01: Brown, Curry, Chandler, Diop, Cisse '02: Amare '03: Lebron, Outlaw, Ebi, Perkins, James Lang '04: Howard, Livingston, Swift, Telfair, Jefferson, Josh Smith, JR Smith, Dorrell Wright</div> Don't forget that there are also international white players under the age of 19 that are effected by this rule. Guys like Yaroslav Korolev would be just as effected as guys like Andrew Bynum. Also, this year's High School class boasts many white players who could potentially make the jump to the pro's. In fact, there were almost just as many whites as blacks in the McDonald's All-American game this year, and in the future you have players like Kevin Love, Kyle Singler, and Spencer Hawes who are white and could make the jump to the pro's. So it's hard to make it a racial argument with that considered.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting B-22:</div><div class="quote_post">If a plyer can play in the NBDL, he should be physicaly mature for the NBa as well, it is not much of a difference. The NBDL isn't much different from the NBA, the talent level is just off. Times have changed, the NBA is a bigger business now and these high school kids are on a different level when it comes to athletic ability and that?s what the people want to see. Your right, going into the NBA is a privilege, so what is your answer when players that have earned this privilege are deprived from their right to skip college and go straight to the NBA? My main this is, what is a 19 year old age limit going to do, the players who wanted to go straight out of high school to the NBA might end up staying at college for one year, and that might not accomplish anything because you can't get you degree in one year in college. Also, at the money management thing with young dudes, that?s why you hire a consultant that helps you manage and invest your money and makes sure you stay focused and away from temptation. You are a legal adult at the age of 18 am I right? If you are a legal adult, and are physically ready for the task of the NBA, why should you be denied the opportunity to play in the NBA, you sure won't be denied when you sign up for the military or the army.</div> Wow, i think you have confused yourself. The NBA is a privilege, we are both(and everyone else) on the same page on that. Now you are saying that their privilege is being taken away by the age limit...how so? If they want to skip college they can, they can play in other leagues for one year, or they can go get a college education( a very good one) for FREE which a normal person in todays sociaty can not do( for free). Yes the 19 year age limit means that they only have to go to a college for one year and not get a degree, but who knows maybe the oplayer will get hit in the head by a brick and realize education is important and if he is nba talant then he will still be the same play if not better in 2 or 3 more year and he will have an education to fall back on. Honestly this is retarted, the NBA is a buisness it's not a public program where thye have to give everyone a chance to play. No, they can run it how they want, they can make an all white team, or an all black team and if you dont like that then watch something else. This decision was made to give those players an extra yewar of development and prove that they have to skill to make it in the NBA.
As an African-American Im quite disturbed and annoyed by other African Americans who say it's all about racism. Everytime something doesn't go our way, someone is quick to pull the race card out like a gunslinger at a shootout. So most high schcool kids have to wait a year to be able to play in the NBA. And as many others pointed out, if the kid doesnt want to go to college, that kid is more than welcomed to either go to the NBDL or go oversees. And the being 18 and going to war, but not being able to play in the nba arguement is bogus as well, because you can be 18 and go to war, but that kid still cant drink, but as usual someone will find a way to make it into a racial issue So know should we lower the drinking age, because all 18 year olds can go to war? Bottom line is it comes down to money, and most of the people feel that there meal ticket out of there fianicial stress is being put on hold for a year, and quite possibly ruined if the kid goes to college. But unfortunatly most blacks dont realize thats theres other ways to make a living besides basketball, rapping and drug dealing. Most blacks are brain washed to think to make it in this world either; You're sellin crack rocks or you have to have a wicked jump shot.
why do you they call you guys African Americans? I thought it was Black Americans, because they don't call white people "European Americans", and your parents are American, not African......isnt that confusing? like someone from African comes to USA, has a child born in USA, wouldnt he or she be true African American? just cause you guys look African doesnt mean you're "African" - American, like white americans who aren't called "european" Americans
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">why do you they call you guys African Americans? I thought it was Black Americans, because they don't call white people "European Americans", and your parents are American, not African......isnt that confusing?</div> "Black" is a derogative term. If you started calling people Black Americans then you'd have to call caucasians White Americans. Africa is the country, so you wouldn't call someone "Black" American. And I think you just confused yourself there.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AznxBaller:</div><div class="quote_post">"Black" is a derogative term. If you started calling people Black Americans then you'd have to call caucasians White Americans. Africa is the country, so you wouldn't call someone "Black" American. And I think you just confused yourself there.</div> Africa is a country? Holy sh*t, when did that happen?!? Anyway, let's keep the discussion on the topic of the age limit and not onto other race related subjects, please.
