With the 7th pick, the Toronto Raptors select Charlie Villenuva...

i gotta agree with purple fever...although this pick doesnt seem like a great move, how do we KNOW that granger would have been a great pick? granger slipped to the 17 spot for a reason...if he was the best pick at 7, then why didnt he get jumped on with the 8th, 9th, 10th...right through to the 18th pick? something is up there...im not upset that we didnt get him

with that said, im not exactly overwhelmed with joy with the villa pick. but oh well...we'll see what happens. think i would have rather seen the raps take gerald green. 7 might have been high for him too, but maybe not. he's so athletic, if he was from serbia and his name was geraldiski greenoslav then he'd probably have gone first

 

Their's no reason for people to be defending the 16th pick, I don't think anyone is angry at that. Graham is a good player, and a good athlete, though just being a good athlete doesn't mean that much because Kedrick Brown was a sick athlete too, but I like him a lot.

Granger and Green's drop were due to the teams drafting between 7th and where they were picked. Golden State has: J-Rich, Pietrus and Dunleavy. Troy Murphy is a perimeter oriented PF, and doesn't have a back to the basket game, so they took a beast in the paint.
8. New York was obviously not going to draft another swingman, that would just be another stupid move for them. 10. LA Lakers could've taken one of them, but they're stacked at SG/SF [Kobe, Butler, George, Jones], and they did hint at taken Bynum, and do need a center.
11. Orlando - Fran Vazquez, they could definately have taken either of them, but they don't need perimeter players. They have moved Francis to the SG spot, and have Hill and Turkoglu at SF with Deshawn Stevenson also backing up.
12. LA Clippers, they were definately not taking either of them, they said they'd take Korolev for a while now, and promised him even. 13. Charlotte, here is where I thought one of then would go as Charlotte really needs players at the perimeter positions, and isn't May a PF just like Emeka? Then again Charlotte passed on every other swingman, so it's not just them, weird pick.
14. Minnesota - Rashad McCants, to me it was kinda a dumb pick, but maybe it's just my bias against McCants, but they do need a guy that can produce more instantly at the SG position, but Granger could do that too. 15. New Jersey, they kinda got screwed with Ike and May going before their pick, but they have no use for a SG/SF, though they still took Wright, who was on the same ranking level as the other 2.

 

the charlie villenuva pick was the most stupid thing ive ever seen in my life, yougize already have Chris Bosh so why pick this guy when you couldve gotten sumtin so much better.

 

i dont agree with thetruth5...i mean once we drafted charlie v and graham, we suddenly have one of the deepest teams in the league in the forward position so if one is say injured or slacking off we can remove them from the lineup and still be a good team without them. Another major concern for hte players that you guyssaid the raps "passed up' is that green didnt look like he wanted to play in toronto... granger always had his problems and is weaker on defense then graham. Although Granger was picked a little too high, i'm sure it was a good draft. As for Charlie V being to high, i think it's 'somewhat' reasonable. Think about this. From our 7th pick to our 16th pick, they were practically all big men. What makes you think that one of those teams arent thinking about Charlie V themselves?

 

you gotta point, but ok you have one of the deepest in the league in the power forward position ......ok but still Chris Bosh is the only one thats gon make a difference and you guys arent one of the deepest teams in the league newhere else so with Bosh at the PF get someone to make your team deeper in sumtin else

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Stunt101:</div><div class="quote_post">i dont agree with thetruth5...i mean once we drafted charlie v and graham, we suddenly have one of the deepest teams in the league in the forward position so if one is say injured or slacking off we can remove them from the lineup and still be a good team without them. Another major concern for hte players that you guyssaid the raps "passed up' is that green didnt look like he wanted to play in toronto... granger always had his problems and is weaker on defense then graham. Although Granger was picked a little too high, i'm sure it was a good draft. As for Charlie V being to high, i think it's 'somewhat' reasonable. Think about this. From our 7th pick to our 16th pick, they were practically all big men. What makes you think that one of those teams arent thinking about Charlie V themselves?</div>

Shouldn't you draft players for the positions you need before you add depth to the positions you already have?

 

The Raptors draft picks astonished me but Graham and Ukic were great picks. Villanueva I can believe went that high because he is so versatile and can play the 3,4, and the 5. The guy's twenty and he's played with NBA players like Luol Deng in high school and Ben Gordon, and Emeka Okafor at Conneticut. After the draft Rab Bobcock said that no one had much interest in their pick at #7 so they couldnt trade down to get a Charlie V, later but still I think it was a good draft for the raptors.

 

This is the best situation for Charlie, because he actually seemed to want to come to TO.
Another thing that I was surprised by was that he admitted that he doesn't always work his hardest and needs someone to motivate him. The fact that he can admit seems to show that he's willing to address the problem. What coach is better than Sam Mitchell to make sure that a player doesn't slack off?
Also, sportsnet interviewed a Hartford reporter who followed Charlie and he said that his game is more suited for the NBA than college. When you see his versatility and athleticism, I think he's got a point. Those are attributes much more valuable in the NBA.
Not the greatest pick, but I've always been a Raptors optimist and I'm not feeling as depressed as I was on draft night.

 

Ok, here's the thing. People who are bashing Babcock right now, read Purple Fever's post that I have quoted below. I admit that I was upset with Villanueva going 7th, but that's because I didn't know whether or not a Joey Graham or a Roko Ukic would be available with our later picks. To be honest with you, I didn't even think Ukic would drop to 41st because he is just that good. But guess what, they were there when our turns came around and like I said, we were able to grab three solid players who are all capable of starting.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Purple Fever:</div><div class="quote_post">It's really irritating to see people who pretend to know it all, while in reality, their only source of information could be internet articles or certain highlites here and there.

How can you pretend to know more than Babcock, Mitchell, Embry, English etc?
I have some questions for you and I would like you to answer them honestly.

1 - In total, how many minutes of tape have you seen of Green and or Granger?
2 - Were you present at any of the workouts the raptors conducted?
3 - Have you ever played or coached in the NBA?
4 - Do you have the credentials to be a scout or GM for an NBA franchise?
5 - In total, how many minutes have you seen of Graham and or Villanueva?


Fact is, these guys had a year under them to scout and put forward a mxim effort to guarentee us the best players possible to help this team. I have NO DOUBT whatsoever that Embry, Babcock and Mitchell want the best for this team, so who are we to second guess them if they were working with these players for over 6 months and have had a first hand look on all players.</div>

People who said we could've gotten Villanueva with the 16th pick, how do you know that he would've been available at 16? Charlotte or Golden State could've taken Villanueva for all we know. There's a reason that Granger / Green dropped like they did. og15's explanation makes sense, but the more probable reason behind it could have been because Granger has a history of knee injuries and Green is still an unproven high schooler who won't work out against other players to prove that he is / could be better than them. Again, the Bobcats / Warriors or the Nets all could've taken Granger or Green and they all passed on them. Trust me, the scouting staff and the advisors in NBA teams aren't as ignorant as some of us may think they are.

Someone up there said that we could've taken Channing Frye, but did anyone see his reaction when Toronto DIDN'T pick him? It was as if he just barely escaped death. His sigh of relief was as loud as a freakin jet flying right over your head. What does that show you? He didn't and doesn't want to be in Toronto, period.

Someone else said Villanueva would only be able to come off the bench, but why would he when he could start at centre? Sure, it's possible that he'll come off the bench for the beginning of the season, but I don't see anyone else on the Raptors roster who is more qualified to play centre than Villanueva. Araujo isn't ready yet obviously, and Sow is still very raw. Villanueva is going to be a Derrick Coleman type player with a good inside/out game, but with more quickness and speed.

EDIT: Matt Bonner and Pape Sow are still going to be signed. They aren't going to demand ridiculous contracts and they will be solid role players off the bench, especially with Marshall most likely gone. I personally want to see Sow play the backup centre and Araujo sent down to NBDL.

 

Well now that a day has passed i dont essentially think it was a horrible pick, but it still could have been much better. And for those people flaming babcock( including myself), this pick was supposedly a Wayne Embry/Sam Mitchell pick so you cant blame babs for all of this.

 

I don't see anyone giving Bickerstaff some flame for drafting May, while their franchise player is a power forward as well and their biggest need was a swingman!

If I remember correctly, Bickerstaff got praises from the ESPN crew when he made the picks.

 

I think Villanueva will be a nice player, but hes undeserving of such a high pick, particularly when he has such a questionable work ethic and attitude...I would've much rather seen Toronto grab Green...Bosh, Green and Alston would make for a dynamic trio in the open court! Villanueva will give you around 12-14 ppg and 6-8 boards a game, but why would you select him when your best player plays the same position? Dont tell me that they plan on using Bosh at the 5 spot. I surely hope thats not the case...But the Ukic pick was very good, and probably the best pick they made all night, even though the Graham pick wasnt necessarily awful...

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Shooter:</div><div class="quote_post">I think Villanueva will be a nice player, but hes undeserving of such a high pick, particularly when he has such a questionable work ethic and attitude...I would've much rather seen Toronto grab Green...Bosh, Green and Alston would make for a dynamic trio in the open court! Villanueva will give you around 12-14 ppg and 6-8 boards a game, but why would you select him when your best player plays the same position? Dont tell me that they plan on using Bosh at the 5 spot. I surely hope thats not the case...But the Ukic pick was very good, and probably the best pick they made all night, even though the Graham pick wasnt necessarily awful...</div>

Okay, what makes you think that Villanueva has a questionable work ethic and attitude and Gerald Green doesn't? I just watched an interview on the Score (Canadian Channel so you probably won't have it) with Villanueva's high school coach and while he admitted that Villanueva had a passive work ethic in high school, he realized it himself and worked very hard in college. What better coach to motivate him constantly than Sam Mitchell and what better teammate to motivate him than Joey Graham and Chris Bosh? Villanueva does play the same position as Bosh, but that isn't his only position. He can also play the 5 and the 3, so no, Bosh wouldn't play the 5.

 

Yes i agree with VinKannady up there, Sam Mitchell must and WILL provide motivation to Villanueva, if not Sam will body slam him. lol. Villianueva doesn't just play the same position Bosh plays. Villanueva can't afford to slack off on the Raptors too also, someone else will take his spot at SF, you got Graham/Mo Pete, at PF you got Bosh/Bonner and at Centre u got Araujo thats if he doesn't get sent down and Pape Sow, there's a lot of players who could take over for Villanueva if he doesn't show the hardwork.

 

This is my first time posting since the draft and I have to say that some people need to lighten up. Everyone says the Charlie V plays the same position as Bosh but so did Marshall. But not only can Charlie V play power foward, his game is versatile enough to play the 3 and the 5 positions as well.

I don't want to defend Babcock's decisioning for the 7th pick because I thought we could do better. But I can't argue with his vision. He saw that the early pick was a chance to go big (which he did), while the 2nd pick allowed him pick a multitude of swingmen and he obviously took the one that stood out the most to him, Mitchell and Embry.

In terms of talent and maturity I would say that coming from a college such as UConn has to help immensely. Calhoun is a great coach and is known for teaching players hard work and mental toughness. Villanueva had a rough first year but he flourished in the 2nd year and showed what he could do on a consistent level.

He is still 20 years old and still has years ahead of him in terms of developing. Can he develop into a better player than Granger or Green? Anything is possible. They obviously saw something in him to pick him so high. So let's wait till the season begins and make our conclusions then.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Someone else said Villanueva would only be able to come off the bench, but why would he when he could start at centre? Sure, it's possible that he'll come off the bench for the beginning of the season, but I don't see anyone else on the Raptors roster who is more qualified to play centre than Villanueva. Araujo isn't ready yet obviously, and Sow is still very raw. Villanueva is going to be a Derrick Coleman type player with a good inside/out game, but with more quickness and speed.</div>
I wouldn't want him at center, I don't like seeing our players get beat up. While CV isn't weak, he's about 236 lbs, he's not known as a banger, and he's only 6'9 1/2 with shoes, so it's not like he's fitted for center.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I don't see anyone giving Bickerstaff some flame for drafting May, while their franchise player is a power forward as well and their biggest need was a swingman!

If I remember correctly, Bickerstaff got praises from the ESPN crew when he made the picks.</div>
I myself was very surprised by that move, I was thinking why in the world are they getting May when they have Okafor, and they do need some perimeter help at the swing spots. The thing with them though is that Okafor is a PF/C, so I'm assuming they'll move him to C and play May at PF.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting og15:</div><div class="quote_post">I wouldn't want him at center, I don't like seeing our players get beat up. While CV isn't weak, he's about 236 lbs, he's not known as a banger, and he's only 6'9 1/2 with shoes, so it's not like he's fitted for center.


I myself was very surprised by that move, I was thinking why in the world are they getting May when they have Okafor, and they do need some perimeter help at the swing spots. The thing with them though is that Okafor is a PF/C, so I'm assuming they'll move him to C and play May at PF.</div>

He's 6'9 without shoes, and 6'11 with shoes. It is listed that he's 6'9 1/2 with shoes but I think he was just wearing a shoe with no midsole or very thin midsole because everyone else gained about 1.5" ~ 2" on average with shoes. Well.. as far as him playing centre, who else can we play there? I don't wanna see Araujo unless he has made some monster progress last season and Pape Sow isn't exactly fitted for centre either, not to mention that he is still raw. Anything's better than Bosh having to play centre again, even if he puts on about 5 to 10 lbs of muscle this off-season.

That still doesn't explain why they - the teams drafting after us - passed on Granger / Green. If Bickerstaff thought that Granger and Green had considerably more upsides than May, he would've grabbed either one for sure, but he didn't. There must have been something that the GMs and the scouting staff knew and we didn't.

 

You're right, he should be about 6'10, most people gain 1-1.5 inches with shoes, not sure about anyone gaining 2 inches, but that's okay, Bosh is still the taller player, but no one wants Bosh at center, it's ugly.

With Bickerstaff, it wasn't a big deal for him to pass, he didn't just pass on Granger and Green, but also on Graham and Wright, so their was no intent of drafting a swingman. The pick was a lot about helping the ticket sales, they're still a business, and bringing in the 2 NC guys will sell them some seats. Remember, Charlotte doesn't have plans of winning anytime soon, so for them it's not that big a deal as next year they will be in the lottery again and can fill the need. If I was to grade them though, it was a bad move basketball wise, but likely a good one business wise.

Everyone's answer seems to be that their's something the GM and Scouting staff knew, but when most other scouts in the league are also baffled at the pick, it makes me wonder.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting DraftExpress:</div><div class="quote_post">The Raptors shocked the world (and screwed up the entire draft in the process) by taking a player who plays the only position on their team (PF) that they have absolutely no need for in Charlie Villanueva. Rob Babcock was apparently so infuriated at being ripped all year for taking Rafael Araujo solely because he filled a need that he went out and got the only position that he didn?t need at all thanks to Chris Bosh and Matt Bonner. Villanueva sure isn?t a small forward or, god forbid, a center, so how is he going to get minutes without giving up 120 points a night? He might anyway even as a power forward. Thankfully for the Raptors their draft didn?t end here. They got the most athletic player in the draft in Joey Graham, a player who is going to bring some much needed toughness and attitude, along with picking up what, on paper, looks like the steal of the draft in Roko Leni-Ukic at #41. Ukic is the kind of guy who has the potential to make every single GM that passed on him look like an absolute fool. That is?if he ever comes to the NBA. Ukic is supposedly about to sign a mammoth contract ($750,000 per year net) with Barcelona, with a huge NBA buyout included. It will take well over a million dollars a year from the Raptors to be able to bring him over. The fact that, according to NBA sources, the Raptors supposedly reneged on their promise to Ukic with the #16 pick isn?t going to help matters much either when it comes time to bringing him over.

The jury is still out on Uros Slokar. Sometimes he looks like a much slower version of Nowitzki (or maybe a poor man?s Matt Bonner?), and sometimes he looks soft and timid even by European standards. Either way, he?s probably not an NBA player.

The sad thing is, the Raptors are trying every trick in the book to try and justify their moves to their huge fan base. They say that Danny Granger has a knee problem, but according to his agent and other NBA teams we spoke to drafting right around them, he is ?as healthy as can be?. The Raptors say that Gerald Green was never interested in coming to them, but according to his agent Andy Vye ?we never got the feeling that they were seriously interested?.</div>
http://draftexpress.com/viewarticle.php?a=1029

 

I don't think the other scouts were baffled,, maybe you meant all the media people were baffled.

The last paragraph is further proof that there was something else we didn't know. His agent obviously is going to say only good things about his client, and those teams who drafted around the Raptors pick didn't take him. To me, that doesn't do much to prove Danny Granger definitely was worth the 7th pick. Not picking Green was something that Sam Mitchell probably requested. He wanted some immediate help and he got one with Joey Graham. Green isn't going to be NBA ready until at least 2 seasons.