West is one of the worst and definitely one of the most overrated GM's that I have ever seen. I understand that Hakim Warrick was the most talented player available at #19, but he doesn't fill a need at all. If you look at him as a Small Forward, we already have Shane Battier, James Posey, and Dahntay Jones. If you look at him as a Power Forward, we already have Pau Gasol and Brian Cardinal. The only reason some Memphis fans were saying that the Power Forward positions was the greatest concern was because the Grizzlies needed toughness and physical intimidation downlow, not a skinny tweener. Johan Petro, David Lee, Wayne Simien, and Chris Taft would have made much more sense here for Jerry West. Then what further confused me was the trade for Lawrence Roberts. We're never going to have a legit second round pick because we keep giving them away to Seattle for nothing in return. What does he see in Roberts? He's 6-7 and at best has a future as the team's best NBDL'er. Why not take Sean Banks, Alan Anderson, Randolph Morris, or Kennedy Winston? And why did the Grizzlies have to part with two second rounders to get him? The potential top 10 pick, Martynas Andriuskevicius, was sold for only one second rounder. You can't tell me Roberts is any more valuable than him. Overall, Jerry West shows again why he has no place in an NBA frontoffice. Draft Grade: C+ (Just because Warrick is the BPA)
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Voodoo Child:</div><div class="quote_post">We're never going to have a legit second round pick because we keep giving them away to Seattle for nothing in return.</div> If it's any consolation, we appreciate it.
I feel your frustration Voodoo, but I think ur being a tad harsh on West...I mean, the man has a history as Draft King, and has made some great selections over the years...if theres one person I wouldnt doubt when it came to the Draft, it would be West...I'm sure he has something up his sleeve that will make some sense out of the Warrick pick...I, myself, wouldve rather seen West choose a PG since, supposedly, hes unhappy with Williams and Watson will likely bolt as a FA...I think Jarrett Jack or Ukic wouldve made some sense, and I even think Francisco Garcia wouldve made some sense as a shooter just in case Mike Miller leaves as a FA...but, like I said, lets see what West has going into training camp before we truly judge the pick...
I completley disagree with you voodoo, Hakim Warrick is not a small forward in the first place he is a power forward. They could just simply move Pau Gasol up to a center i mean he is 7'0 and he is probably the tallest power forward in the leauge so that would be a wise choice. Lorenzen Wright is asking for a trade and Stromile Swift will probably be released into free agency. So Hakim Warrick could fight for the starting job at power forward with Brian Cardinal [in my opinion Warrick should win]. So all in all Memphis made the right decision.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Shooter:</div><div class="quote_post">I feel your frustration Voodoo, but I think ur being a tad harsh on West...I mean, the man has a history as Draft King, and has made some great selections over the years...if theres one person I wouldnt doubt when it came to the Draft, it would be West...</div> What the hell are you talking about? Since he has been the Grizzlies General Manager he has made nothing but the wrong draft picks. Are you calling Robert Archibald over Carlos Boozer and Dan Gadzuric a good pick? (And don't give me any b.s. about how everyone else passed on them, because it was a pretty obvious steal for the Grizzlies taking) How about trading our second round pick this year (Mikael Gelabale, a potential first rounder) for Andre Emmett who did a nice job keeping our bench warm but did almost nothing outside of that. How about drafting Dahntay Jones and Troy Bell in the top 20 when they were projected as second rounders? Jones is a year or two away from the NBDL and Troy Bell is struggling in Europe as we speak. How about the pick of Sergey Lischuk? (Sorry if I can't spell the name, but it's because he has never even seen 1 minute of NBA playing time) Then there's drafting Drew Gooden, which appears like a good deal, but keep in mind it was with the #4 pick. When you have a pick that high, there are a lot of players who are usually the consensus top picks of the draft, so it's not like much thought goes into those picks. Besides, he passed up Amare Stoudamire who was rumored to have been the favorite for the pick before Jerry West showed up. But aside from every draft pick he has ever made, yes he's a good drafter. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I'm sure he has something up his sleeve that will make some sense out of the Warrick pick...I, myself, wouldve rather seen West choose a PG since, supposedly, hes unhappy with Williams and Watson will likely bolt as a FA...I think Jarrett Jack or Ukic wouldve made some sense, and I even think Francisco Garcia wouldve made some sense as a shooter just in case Mike Miller leaves as a FA...but, like I said, lets see what West has going into training camp before we truly judge the pick...</div> If he drafted Warrick for trade, then I like the pick. He was the best player available from a trade value point of view, but I have heard that they're satisfied with him and expect him to be a Grizzly next season. As for drafting a Point Guard, I don't see the point in it. Yes, Earl Watson is leaving, but we should get a Point Guard in return for Jason Williams, likely Sam Cassell. Our immediate need would be the hardest to trade for or sign, a big man. With Wayne Simien, David Lee, and Johan Petro available, they'd be great choices. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I completley disagree with you voodoo, Hakim Warrick is not a small forward in the first place he is a power forward. They could just simply move Pau Gasol up to a center i mean he is 7'0 and he is probably the tallest power forward in the leauge so that would be a wise choice. Lorenzen Wright is asking for a trade and Stromile Swift will probably be released into free agency. So Hakim Warrick could fight for the starting job at power forward with Brian Cardinal [in my opinion Warrick should win]. So all in all Memphis made the right decision.</div> In the first place, I never said that Hakim Warrick was a Small Forward. I looked at both positions that he can play if you read my post. Have you ever seen Warrick play? He's no physical post player. He gets by on his athleticism and quickness. If we put him out there as a Power Forward, I doubt he would play the position like a true post player anyway, which is what we need. Second of all, Pau Gasol is no Center. If you remember, the team experimented with him there for about 10-15 games in his rookie and second seasons, and he was too weak and lacked the skills to go up against guys like Shaq and Brad Miller. He's much better suited for the Power Forward position.
Wow, Voodoo, calm down, Look at what Utah got! CJ Miles instead of Martynas A, Ukic, Turiaf, Mickael Gelebale, etc. It may look like a good player, but he might go to F'in college. Then instead of Randolph Morris or Kennedy Winston they took Robert Whaley cuz of his potential, Hello, neither of those 2 have potential. So be happy you got the BAP, cuz D-Will wasn't the BAP.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting J_Ray:</div><div class="quote_post">Wow, Voodoo, calm down, Look at what Utah got! CJ Miles instead of Martynas A, Ukic, Turiaf, Mickael Gelebale, etc. It may look like a good player, but he might go to F'in college. Then instead of Randolph Morris or Kennedy Winston they took Robert Whaley cuz of his potential, Hello, neither of those 2 have potential. So be happy you got the BAP, cuz D-Will wasn't the BAP.</div> I'm not the biggest C.J. Miles fan in the world, but I like the idea of drafting a player who will atend college. With all the draft picks the Jazz had, it was inevitable that they'd pick a player who wouldn't go to the organization right away. You mention Martynas Andriuskevicius and Roko Ukic, but they'd likely be playing ball elsewhere as well. Wouldn't you rather have a player you can watch play college basketball next year than a player who your team sends over to Europe or the NBDL? Besides, those two picks were made in the second round. Outside of them, the Jazz made a great pick getting Deron Williams. Second round players who make impacts are hard to find, so when you make a mistake in the second round it's not as bad as making a mistake in the mid-first round.
[quote name='Voodoo Child']I'm not the biggest C.J. Miles fan in the world, but I like the idea of drafting a player who will atend college. With all the draft picks the Jazz had, it was inevitable that they'd pick a player who wouldn't go to the organization right away. You mention Martynas Andriuskevicius and Roko Ukic, but they'd likely be playing ball elsewhere as well. Wouldn't you rather have a player you can watch play college basketball next year than a player who your team sends over to Europe or the NBDL? Besides, those two picks were made in the second round. Outside of them, the Jazz made a great pick getting Deron Williams. Second round players who make impacts are hard to find, so when you make a mistake in the second round it's not as bad as making a mistake in the mid-first round.[/QUOT I wasn't really happy with Deron Williams though, they gave up 3 first-rounders for him. Then the pick they gave to Portland, they got Jarret Jack with him. That's was what made me mad, with Jack going to Portland with our pick we gave them, we could have had him and another top lottery guy instead of having just Deron Williams. Then if you look at it, with all are picks, we could have had 2 for sure first rounders, and 2 other potential first-rounders in the second round. It would have been ok if they got Ukic with the 34th pick and send him back to Europe. Also, I don't watch Texas games so him going to college don't help me. BE NICE to your GM, he got the BAP, we got the 2nd best PG.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Voodoo Child:</div><div class="quote_post">I'm not the biggest C.J. Miles fan in the world, but I like the idea of drafting a player who will atend college. With all the draft picks the Jazz had, it was inevitable that they'd pick a player who wouldn't go to the organization right away. You mention Martynas Andriuskevicius and Roko Ukic, but they'd likely be playing ball elsewhere as well. Wouldn't you rather have a player you can watch play college basketball next year than a player who your team sends over to Europe or the NBDL? Besides, those two picks were made in the second round. Outside of them, the Jazz made a great pick getting Deron Williams. Second round players who make impacts are hard to find, so when you make a mistake in the second round it's not as bad as making a mistake in the mid-first round.</div> I wasn't really happy with Deron Williams though, they gave up 3 first-rounders for him. Then the pick they gave to Portland, they got Jarret Jack with him. That's was what made me mad, with Jack going to Portland with our pick we gave them, we could have had him and another top lottery guy instead of having just Deron Williams. Then if you look at it, with all are picks, we could have had 2 for sure first rounders, and 2 other potential first-rounders in the second round. It would have been ok if they got Ukic with the 34th pick and send him back to Europe. Also, I don't watch Texas games so him going to college don't help me. BE NICE to your GM, he got the BAP, we got the 2nd best PG. If you hate your GM so much join the Knicks and Raptors fans.
Voodoo, I agree West's tenure in Memphis would seem quite frustrating (after all, they've made very little progress over the last couple of years), but I also think that Warrick was the best pick to make in that situation. There wasn't anyone left on the board who would have really filled a need (and been a sure thing to do it), and Warrick has major upside. If he fills out he could definitely be the best player of anyone taken after him. So I wouldn't be railing against that pick. As to West and the way he built the team, I agree that he's overrated - but not as much as you say. When he first went to Memphis, people expected him to make the team a championship contender almost immediately, and his moves did pay off, getting them the 5 seed in the West (albeit to be pounded by the Spurs) a couple years ago. The team was deep and talented, and both the Grizz and the Bucks followed a similar model that year by using their depth to get them into the playoffs. Both however did not meet the same success the next year. I thought the Memphis approach was an interesting one, and I'd still give him this one more offseason to see what he does before starting a "Fire Jerry West" campaign.
Yea Babcock seems to be a horrible GM that certainly lacks a brain at times. If Arujo at 8th and Charlie V at 7th are worse picks than Hakim Warrick at 19th then I'm confused. Because Charlie V was supposed to go around the same spots as Hakim, but we drafted him at 7... Go Figure
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting FFSBasketball:</div><div class="quote_post">Voodoo, I agree West's tenure in Memphis would seem quite frustrating (after all, they've made very little progress over the last couple of years), but I also think that Warrick was the best pick to make in that situation. There wasn't anyone left on the board who would have really filled a need (and been a sure thing to do it), and Warrick has major upside. If he fills out he could definitely be the best player of anyone taken after him. So I wouldn't be railing against that pick. As to West and the way he built the team, I agree that he's overrated - but not as much as you say. When he first went to Memphis, people expected him to make the team a championship contender almost immediately, and his moves did pay off, getting them the 5 seed in the West (albeit to be pounded by the Spurs) a couple years ago. The team was deep and talented, and both the Grizz and the Bucks followed a similar model that year by using their depth to get them into the playoffs. Both however did not meet the same success the next year. I thought the Memphis approach was an interesting one, and I'd still give him this one more offseason to see what he does before starting a "Fire Jerry West" campaign.</div> So Wayne Simien wouldn't have filled a need? The main problem is that now we still lack size and toughness downlow. We're not going to solve that in Free Agency, because we don't have enough money. And I don't think there are many (if any at all) quality Centers that are both up for trade and reasonably priced. The draft is the place to get big men. I don't agree with the approach that Jerry West took to building our team at all. Yes, we made the playoffs the last two years, but we would have made the playoffs under Billy Knight anyway. Our best players (Gasol, Battier, Williams, Wright) were all Billy Knight players. Just name me one good move that Jerry West has made since he has been in Memphis, because I can't think of any. I'm not expecting a championship, but it's frustrating when you've got a better eye for your team's needs than your team's General Manager.
