<div class="quote_poster">Quoting og15:</div><div class="quote_post">Their's no need to hate on Green, he's also a very good shooter in addition to his athleticism. He's raw, but I don't see why you're hating on him?</div> I wasn't hating on him, I was hating on the person who wrote this stupid comment: <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Tesh15:</div><div class="quote_post">raps dint even need a pf... idk wat rob bobcock is doing in draft... 1st he drafted aruajo now charlie.... should have selected frye or gerald green who has hops as vc and can bring excitement bak to toronto.</div>
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">gerald green who has hops as vc and can bring excitement bak to toronto.</div> Alright I'm sure all Raptor fans would want to wait 4 years before Green can actually provide some sort of impact, let alone bring fans into the arena.
i would have gone after green...u know high risk, high reward. but with that being said, there must have been a reason why his stock dipped so dramatically.
His ATTITUDE. Something we don't want on the organization. You kno w Wince Carter, remmeber his attitude. Even if Green becomes an allstar, he's still immature and has a horrible attitude.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Mr.Wade:</div><div class="quote_post">His ATTITUDE. Something we don't want on the organization. You kno w Wince Carter, remmeber his attitude. Even if Green becomes an allstar, he's still immature and has a horrible attitude.</div> u don't pass up prodigy like ability because of attitude alone; remember darrel walker used to tell tmac he would never make it because of his immaturity and today tmac is arguably a top 10 player.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting deception:</div><div class="quote_post">i would have gone after green...u know high risk, high reward. but with that being said, there must have been a reason why his stock dipped so dramatically.</div>I wanted Green at first too, but then I realized that bringing in someone who probably wouldn't want to defer to Bosh would be a really bad idea. If we were to get a superstar, like a T-Mac or VC, then he'd have to be unselfish and willing to play second fiddle. I can't really picture Green as being that kind of person.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting dunksworth:</div><div class="quote_post">I wanted Green at first too, but then I realized that bringing in someone who probably wouldn't want to defer to Bosh would be a really bad idea. If we were to get a superstar, like a T-Mac or VC, then he'd have to be unselfish and willing to play second fiddle. I can't really picture Green as being that kind of person.</div> in bosh's two years here, there hasn't been anything that has blown me away. honestly i have serious questions about his ability to get stronger, his man to man defense, his passing in traffic, his handles and his basketball iq at times. one of the reasons why charlie V. was drafted i believe is because management, i think arrived at the sobering reality that bosh isn't the savior that the toronto media attempts to manfacture. maybe bosh would be playing second fiddle to green.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting deception:</div><div class="quote_post">in bosh's two years here, there hasn't been anything that has blown me away. honestly i have serious questions about his ability to get stronger, his man to man defense, his passing in traffic, his handles and his basketball iq at times. one of the reasons why charlie V. was drafted i believe is because management, i think arrived at the sobering reality that bosh isn't the savior that the toronto media attempts to manfacture. maybe bosh would be playing second fiddle to green.</div> The key words: Two years. The fact: Bosh is only 21. His ability to get stronger: Already has put on 10 pounds of muscle in one off-season. What's wrong with his man-to-man defense? He held his own against the likes of Tim Duncan / Kevin Garnett and led the Raptors to a couple of victories versus the Spurs / Timberwolves. His passing and ball handling? What's wrong with it? I mean he's not a point guard, is he? He's a 6-11 forward. His basketball IQ? He's made much better decisions than Rafer Alston, I can tell you that much. If you, for any reason, believe Babcock drafted Villanueva to replace Bosh, you're sadly mistaken.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting deception:</div><div class="quote_post">in bosh's two years here, there hasn't been anything that has blown me away. honestly i have serious questions about his ability to get stronger, his man to man defense, his passing in traffic, his handles and his basketball iq at times. one of the reasons why charlie V. was drafted i believe is because management, i think arrived at the sobering reality that bosh isn't the savior that the toronto media attempts to manfacture. maybe bosh would be playing second fiddle to green.</div>It's possible that Bosh could be nothing more than just a borderline all-star, but at the same time, he could very well become the type of franchise player we've been hoping for. And in the event that he becomes this type of player, we would want to surround him with a group of solid players who wouldn't mind not being the superstar on the team. There simply is just too much risk involved in taking a guy like Green. If Bosh turns out to be a franchise player then Green would probably want take off (a la T-mac in TO). If Bosh doesn't turn out to be all that great, then Green may still take off as soon as the going gets tough (a la T-mac in Orlando & VC in TO). If you ask me, I'd rather just keep Bosh where we know that he's a character guy and wouldn't take off as soon as we start losing games (he did sign the extension even though the Raps have been horrible ever since he got here).
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting VinKanaddy:</div><div class="quote_post">The key words: Two years. The fact: Bosh is only 21. His ability to get stronger: Already has put on 10 pounds of muscle in one off-season. What's wrong with his man-to-man defense? He held his own against the likes of Tim Duncan / Kevin Garnett and led the Raptors to a couple of victories versus the Spurs / Timberwolves. His passing and ball handling? What's wrong with it? I mean he's not a point guard, is he? He's a 6-11 forward. His basketball IQ? He's made much better decisions than Rafer Alston, I can tell you that much. If you, for any reason, believe Babcock drafted Villanueva to replace Bosh, you're sadly mistaken.</div>I'm not saying that I agree w/ deception that Bosh is not the budding young star we've been hoping for, but I will say that his concerns about Bosh's skills are legitimate. All those aspects mentioned definitely needs improvement, including his defense (he's not a poor defender, just a slightly below-average one). And I've also been concerned about his strength. I remember reading somewhere that he struggled to bench around 170lbs last season (in comparison, Earl Boykins can bench over 300lbs and he weighs around 130lbs). From experience, I noticed that ppl who are that weak may never get really strong unless they use steriods or some other muscle enhancing drug. I'm not saying that it's impossible for Bosh to get strong enough for the nba, I'm just saying there's still a chance he may never get any stronger. I believe Bill Simmons also discussed this in one of his lastest articles. He mentioned that Bosh is closer to his ceiling than many of us believe and he compares him to Shareef Adur Rahim (a guy who gets his stats by playing for crappy teams). I personally think he's wrong but at the same time, there's no reason to believe that he couldn't be right.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting dunksworth:</div><div class="quote_post">I'm not saying that I agree w/ deception that Bosh is not the budding young star we've been hoping for, but I will say that his concerns about Bosh's skills are legitimate. All those aspects mentioned definitely needs improvement, including his defense (he's not a poor defender, just a slightly below-average one). And I've also been concerned about his strength. I remember reading somewhere that he struggled to bench around 170lbs last season (in comparison, Earl Boykins can bench over 300lbs and he weighs around 130lbs). From experience, I noticed that ppl who are that weak may never get really strong unless they use steriods or some other muscle enhancing drug. I'm not saying that it's impossible for Bosh to get strong enough for the nba, I'm just saying there's still a chance he may never get any stronger. I believe Bill Simmons also discussed this in one of his lastest articles. He mentioned that Bosh is closer to his ceiling than many of us believe and he compares him to Shareef Adur Rahim (a guy who gets his stats by playing for crappy teams). I personally think he's wrong but at the same time, there's no reason to believe that he couldn't be right.</div> Are you saying he hasn't improved at all since his rookie season in the strength department? Or for that matter, since his days at Georgia Tech? Without going into the bench-press aspect, if you have watched any games you would've noticed that Bosh was able to stop the opposing team's big men from pushing him around in the post. If you look at his rookie season, however, he was getting pushed around left and right and up and down. He gained muscle mass each and every season, from 207 pounds in Georgia Tech to 215 pounds near the draft, to 225 pounds in the start of his rookie season, and to 235 pounds in the start of the last season. That's on average of about 10 lbs per season, and if I'm not mistaken he will put on another 8-10 pounds this off-season. Comparing Shareef Abdur-Rahim with Bosh is just non-sense. Bosh gets his stats by playing for a crappy team? Last time I checked, he wasn't even the leading scorer on the Raptors roster. Jalen Rose was. Shareef was the only go-to guy in Atlanta, but Bosh isn't. There's Rose, there's Peterson, and there's Rafer Alston who always likes to jack up treys. Another thing, Shareef never had the initiative or the will to get better. Bosh has that in him; he's a natural competitor who wants to win.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">i have serious questions about his ability to get stronger, his man to man defense, his passing in traffic, his handles and his basketball iq at times</div> Haha... that is a joke for real. Something tells me you don't even watch the Raptors play. Anyone who watches the Raps knows that Bosh is a great ball handler, especially for his size. He has crossed up so many big men, and can even handle it out on the perimeter at times... that's just garbage man. And about the stronger part... we all know Bosh needs to get stronger. But I think he shouldn't get too much stronger or else his game will be taken away from him. Example: KG and Odom. They're not big. KG can still guard big guys though b/c of his length and height. Bosh is a semi-poor man's KG and he will turn out to be like him.
^ I hope you don't think I agree w/ Bill Simmons about the SAR thing b/c I think he was off-base for saying something like that. I do however, think his concerns about Bosh hitting his ceiling early are reasonable. I personally disagree w/ him but it's still a reasonable criticism. As for the whole strength thing w/ Bosh, it's true that he gained significant weight before and during his rookie season but this past off-season he had the perfect opportunity to put on some weight/muscle but he only gained roughly 5lbs, and he was actually making a huge effort trying to gain those pounds. Maybe it's not a big deal, but it's still a concern. And about the whole bench-press thing, just speaking from experience, I noticed that ppl who struggle to lift less than their own bodyweight may hit their plateau (of strength) a lot early than others. I'm not saying that he won't get any stronger, just stating that he may never reach the level of strength as the other big men in the league. And that it is major concern when he'll be matched up w/ strong guys like Dwight Howard, Okafor, and Stoudemire.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting VinKanaddy:</div><div class="quote_post">Are you saying he hasn't improved at all since his rookie season in the strength department? Or for that matter, since his days at Georgia Tech? Without going into the bench-press aspect, if you have watched any games you would've noticed that Bosh was able to stop the opposing team's big men from pushing him around in the post. If you look at his rookie season, however, he was getting pushed around left and right and up and down. He gained muscle mass each and every season, from 207 pounds in Georgia Tech to 215 pounds near the draft, to 225 pounds in the start of his rookie season, and to 235 pounds in the start of the last season. That's on average of about 10 lbs per season, and if I'm not mistaken he will put on another 8-10 pounds this off-season. Comparing Shareef Abdur-Rahim with Bosh is just non-sense. Bosh gets his stats by playing for a crappy team? Last time I checked, he wasn't even the leading scorer on the Raptors roster. Jalen Rose was. Shareef was the only go-to guy in Atlanta, but Bosh isn't. There's Rose, there's Peterson, and there's Rafer Alston who always likes to jack up treys. Another thing, Shareef never had the initiative or the will to get better. Bosh has that in him; he's a natural competitor who wants to win.</div>I hope you don't think I agree w/ Bill Simmons about the SAR thing b/c I think he was off-base for saying something like that. I do however, think his concerns about Bosh hitting his ceiling early are reasonable. I personally disagree w/ him but it's still a reasonable criticism. As for the whole strength thing w/ Bosh, it's true that he gained significant weight before and during his rookie season but this past off-season he had the perfect opportunity to put on some weight/muscle but he only gained roughly 5lbs, and he was actually making a huge effort trying to gain those pounds. Maybe it's not a big deal, but it's still a concern. And about the whole bench-press thing, just speaking from experience, I noticed that ppl who struggle to lift less than their own bodyweight may hit their plateau (of strength) a lot early than others. I'm not saying that he won't get any stronger, just stating that he may never reach the level of strength as the other big men in the league. And that it is major concern when he'll be matched up w/ strong guys like Dwight Howard, Okafor, and Stoudemire.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Mr.Wade:</div><div class="quote_post">Haha... that is a joke for real. Something tells me you don't even watch the Raptors play. Anyone who watches the Raps knows that Bosh is a great ball handler, especially for his size. He has crossed up so many big men, and can even handle it out on the perimeter at times... that's just garbage man. And about the stronger part... we all know Bosh needs to get stronger. But I think he shouldn't get too much stronger or else his game will be taken away from him. Example: KG and Odom. They're not big. KG can still guard big guys though b/c of his length and height. Bosh is a semi-poor man's KG and he will turn out to be like him.</div>Good ball handler for his size? Yes.... Great ball handler? No way.... Compare his handles to other big men's such as KG, Nowitzki, and Odom and you'll see that he still needs lots of improvement. And if you think that KG can hold is own not because of his strength, but b/c of his length and height, then you must be mistaken. KG is deceptively strong for his size and it has all to do w/ his genetics. He doesn't need to gain muscle mass in order to get stronger.... but Bosh does.
Well, if Bosh puts on TOO much weight/muscle, then he'll be taking away a bit from one of his strongest aspects, which is his quickness. And that's one of the important key's to his game.
I think that the key thing is that Bosh is only 21. Bosh has been on the Raptors for two years, and they were losing teams both years... So he relates Bosh to Shareef... I'm sure there have been lots of rookies that have been on losing teams for two years and still been great stars. For example I believe Jordan and Lebron were on losing teams in their first couple years. I see Bosh slowly developing more strength, post moves, and improving his general game. His basketball IQ isn't perfect, but he is only 21, and still a good passer and rebounder, and a good defender. If anyone remembers when he played against KG and TD he has faired well.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting dunksworth:</div><div class="quote_post">I hope you don't think I agree w/ Bill Simmons about the SAR thing b/c I think he was off-base for saying something like that. I do however, think his concerns about Bosh hitting his ceiling early are reasonable. I personally disagree w/ him but it's still a reasonable criticism. As for the whole strength thing w/ Bosh, it's true that he gained significant weight before and during his rookie season but this past off-season he had the perfect opportunity to put on some weight/muscle but he only gained roughly 5lbs, and he was actually making a huge effort trying to gain those pounds. Maybe it's not a big deal, but it's still a concern. And about the whole bench-press thing, just speaking from experience, I noticed that ppl who struggle to lift less than their own bodyweight may hit their plateau (of strength) a lot early than others. I'm not saying that he won't get any stronger, just stating that he may never reach the level of strength as the other big men in the league. And that it is major concern when he'll be matched up w/ strong guys like Dwight Howard, Okafor, and Stoudemire.</div> But what's the source of Bosh struggling to lift 170 lbs? Unless it's a proven fact I don't think it has any legitimacy. You gotta remember that Bosh is still growing and his metabolism is faster than normal people. And no, I wasn't referring the 'SAR argument' to you, but to Bill Simmons.
I read that Bill Simmons article, and I gotta tell you that he's entertaining,opinionative but not the best basketball analyst. I remember he totally put down the Magic for drafting Howard ahead of Okafor and did you see how high he ranked Howard in that article. Most of his observations seem to come from gut instincts. However, I think that we can't consider Bosh as amazing as the media hype him up. He's going to need a more solid team than the one Carter had when he went to the playoffs, to reach the same level. I am concerned about the benchpressing. And I honestly think that he shouldn't worry about having too much muscle mass. His quickness is a good asset but he will need the extra pounds to add another dimension to his game. Right now his main offensive weapon is a quick first step. I remember seeing a few teams shut him down when they stuck a double on him before he could move. With some more muscle he could enhance his post moves and make him less predictable. I mean, Duncan is very strong and is still surprisingly quick enough to beat someone of the dribble. I think he definitely hasn't hit his plateau, but he's still got more work to be the franchise player that we want him to be. I'm not worried though. Watching him improve this year and knowing his work ethic, I'm sure that he will be one the better bigmen for years to come.
Many journalists/ reporters just sway the the direction the wind is blowing... really. Right now T.dot is on a low, therefore not many people like Chris Bosh and the Raps. I feel that article was very entertaining, but not very logical. As told by Chutney, this journalist is very unstable on his opinions, bashing players but prasing them once he does good. Although some of his material is credible, I find a lot of what he said about Bosh very opinionated and not factual.
