Okay, now that the draft is over, we can start the second guessing. Almost everyone here either believes Mullin should have taken Ike or gone for Granger or Green. My question is this: pretend you were calling the shots on draft night, what would you have done with the three picks? Would you have taken Green even though you hadn't worked him out, hoping to land a pf in the second round? Would you have tried to trade down? Would you have done exactly what Mullin did? Here's what I would have done: <u>#9 Pick: Gerald Green</u> I would have gone for Green even though the Warriors didn't work him out. I've always said I like the team as it is and the Warriors should go for the guy with the biggest upside in the draft. Aside from Marvin Williams, Green's got the most potential. At 6'8, Green could play the 2 or 3, and the Warriors could take their time developing him with Richardson, Pietrus, and Dunleavy in front of him. As for Granger, I think Mullin passed on him for the same reason I would have passed on him. I think he'll be a great player, I just think Dunleavy fits with this offense better. How many guys in the league do you know who could come in as a #3 pick, and be completely willing to defer to his teammates in order to make the team better? Dunleavy knows that Baron, Jason, and Troy are the primary scorers on this team now. Dun's job is to set up his teammates, work within the offense, and make the other team pay when his man leaves to double team one of the other guys. Granger has a lot of the same skills as Dunleavy, but do you think he'd be as content to defer to his teammates in order to make the team work better as Dunleavy? Now it's true that Granger would have been a definite upgrade over Dunleavy on the defensive end, but how many guys are content to mainly be a defensive stopper without getting their touches on offense? Bruce Bowen and Ben Wallace are the only two I can think of, and my guess is it's because both were undrafted. Mullin passed on Granger after seeing him twice, I think that sends a pretty clear message that Dunleavy is Mullin's guy for the foreseeable future. <u>#40 Pick: Roko Ukic</u> To my knowledge, the Warriors didn't bring Ukic in for workouts, but they didn't bring Ellis in for a workout either. Really you couldn't go wrong with Ellis or Ukic in the second round, but I'd give the nod to Ukic because he's more of a pg. According to Ford, Ukic is also a better open court pg than he is in half court sets. He doesn't have the track record that Ellis had, really he's just stepped up his game in the past season, but I just think he fits the Warriors better. Time will tell on who the better player is, I would have gone with Ukic, but I'm almost as happy with Ellis. <u>#42: Andray Blatche</u> This is a lot like the Ukic/Ellis choice. When I saw Toronto pick Ukic, I was literally yelling at the TV, "Blatche, Taft, or Andriuskevicius! Blatche, Taft, or Andriuskevicius! Blatche, Taft, or Andriuskevicius!" for the entire two minutes before the Warriors selected Taft (clearly I need a life, but that's a story for a different thread). Even as I'm writing this, I go back and forth on who I would have taken. Taft was a great pick because the Warriors had worked him out, and even though he didn't do that well, they got a better feel for what type of player he is. Plus Taft would have been able to fill the Warriors biggest need: immediate help in the low post. Blatche is a long-term project, but he would have been a great pf in a fast-break offense. Even though he performed well playing down low in the high school all-star games, there isn't a lot of evidence that he could play down low. Still, according to Ford his ball handling and shooting skills are very developed, so I figure if he can learn how to do those, he can learn post moves. The question is just whether he has the heart to bang down low night in and night out. As for Andriuskevicius, I think he's got the most potential of anyone in the draft behind Marvin Williams and Green. But he could also be a spectacular bust. Still, I think between Green, Ukic, and Andriuskevicius, the Warriors would have had an excellent chance at getting at least one all star. And if you would have told me that the Warriors were going to turn the #9, #40, and #42 picks into an allstar, I wouldn't have cared how they did it, I just would have taken it. In fact, I would have been tempted to have taken two of the three big guys with the two second round picks instead of taking Ellis or Ukic.
I would do exactly what Mullin did. With chosing Diogu Warriors made a wide step frowards the playoffs, because Green is more of future, but Digou is more of now - the real thing, the rigth element for Warriors. We still have AirFrance on the roster, and he needs his minutes too... And I think that Monta Ellis and Taft picks were great... Myabe only I would take Blatche not Taft...
my #9, #40, #42 in limerick #9.) Green, Green, Green! I yelled at my television screen... Eight teams passed him up and he finally fell at number eighteen If I was GM I'd dance and pee myself silly and draft him right away Hopefully the risk is worth it and he'll one day be a superstar in the NBA Then I'd package poison pill Murph to Orlando for Dave Twardzick The Orlando Magic would then give us their number eleven pick Depending on who the lakers took at ten I'd go for either Diogu, Granger or Andrew Bynum If that don't work, I'd draft Green, trade Dun to the Bobcats for their spot At #13, I'd look at Diogu/Granger or some other hotshot I guess we should be grateful for Isiah Thomas drafting Frye Because if it weren't for Zeke, Frye would be our guy Also you don't want to upset Baron Davis by trading away a starter I just hope on defense, our slowest guys (especially Murph) work a lot harder #40.) Monta Ellis was a very good 2nd round pick Would have really liked Roko Leni Ukic Ukic is a fundamental and athletic player which I like Unlike these two sloths on our team: Troy and Mike Defense could be an issue, but Roko's fast and hustles Like Ellis he can also hit the gym and get some more muscles Ukic could probably be a better defender than Ellis But only time and physical maturity can tell us #42.) Chris Taft and Blatche? I like their potential to dominate a game Either one just as long as its not Andri-whateverhisname Here's a seven foot skinny dude with a neck of a giraffe He can't even bench press 135 lbs, how can you not laugh? How is this guy expected to hold position in the post? When he gives away ground and crumbles like toast? He's quick and tall, which is something that can't be taught Maybe he can gain some bulk all over or maybe not Big men with skill/natural strength is what we need badly Not the offspring of Olive Oyl and Shawn Bradley
I liked our draft. I was pushing for a couple other second round picks but I can't really complain about the selections right now. I like Diogu with the first selection. I also kind of liked Granger as well from the highlites I was seeing. He sounds like a good player as well. Diogu should be very good here though and I am happy. With the second round pick I liked Ukic. I thought that guy was going to be picked as high as 10 to the Lakers. But he just kept sliding down, farther and farther. He has good height at 6-5 which is an advantage for a PG, and he seems to have good skills. He might not be the floor general of a Baron Davis, but the guy sounds like he can play. With the second, second round draft pick, I kind of liked that Mickael guy. He is supposed to be a great athlete and a strong defender on the perimeter. I think he could have helped this team's perimeter defense quite a bit as the back-up SG while Pietrus moves to back up SF. The guy is supposed to be very good with a mid-range shot. I can't really complain with Taft, since I guess he has good potential, and so does Ellis. But I had lots of interest in Ukic, and also Mickael. I was thinking of a lineup of: Baron/Fisher/Ukic Jason/Mickael Gelabale/Cheaney Dunleavy/Mickael Pietrus Murphy/Diogu/Zarko Foyle/Biedrins Thinking for now, I thnk the Warriors actually would have had a better roster with Ukic and Gelabale. I am not sure how Taft fits in with Murphy and Foyle(especially with their contracts), along with Biedrins and Diogu who are young players, and Zarko who was very productive at the end of last year. Montgomery has his hands full there. If Foyle's contract were shorter, I could see Taft working out. But for right now, I don't know...He's only a second round pick though. But adding a perimeter defender like Gelabale would help this team more as of right now. I personally would have enjoyed watching that bench team of Ukic, Gelabale, Pietrus, Diogu, and Andris playing together. So much potential in that 5 right there.
The Warriors wanted Diogu, and while they might have been able to draft him later, they may not have wanted to take the chance and/or couldn't find a willing trading partner - like what happened with Toronto. I don't take much issue with drafting him. Mullin obviously wanted a low post player who could come in and play now and got that. I won't criticize it now that it's happened. Diogu is more of a sure bet than most that were available...and the Warriors didn't reallly have a need for Green or Granger. The real head scratcher for me was Monta Ellis. The Warriors had a look at Taft, Blatche, Andrius, Gelabale and Ukic with the 40th pick and took a h.s. pg/sg who's had knee problems with their first second round pick. If they wanted a pg/sg, why go with Ellis over Ukic....who is considered by a lot of people as the steal of the draft, and is a more proven player than Ellis. Played in the Adriatic and Croation league, and put up very good numbers and also played on the Croation national junior team. And I remember reading write-ups on him last year about shutting down Sebastian Telfair in one of the h.s. all-star games. Ukic seemed like the best value available at that point in the draft. So I do not understand that choice...because the W's would still have only had to wait one pick to then look at the bigs. As for the 42nd pick, I have no issue with taking Taft. There were question marks about every big man available at that point...whether it was Taft, Blatche, Andrius, Ilic, or whoever. Andrius killed his stock by coming over, probably as much from his poor measurements - short reach and wingspan, for his height, not to mention very skinny upper and lower body - as his poor workout. As for undrafted free agents, there's still a few out there. I'd like the Warriors to give a look to Morris, Akindele, Gigli and Mancinelli.
I was expecting us to get Green since he slipped past 6-7. I think this says more about Murphy then anything else. Mullin just drafted two guys who play the same position as Murph. There are also murmurs of the W's wanting to put Murphy as a center which seems like a disaster waiting to happen. The only positive which I can think of Murphy playing center would be 1) Foyle is off the court 2) Makes him more versatile making him more attractive to other teams 3) Draws out the centers due to his shooting, leaving room for penetration. Biedrins is in the wings to play center. How can Murphy be in Mullin's long term plans?
It seems like in Murphy, Okur, Brezic, Drobnjak, La Frentz, Marc Jackson and countless other shooting power forwards, they all end up playing center because they're too slow to guard power forward. It'll probably happen to Murphy soon because of his contract and the Warriors need to get tougher inside, which Diogu or Taft is supposed to do for us.
All in all, I am happy with our draft picks. I was definately thinking Green since he fell all the way to us and he is so athletic. He would have been great with Baron Davis. I think he is as big and athletic as Lebron but without the overall skills and team play Lebron displays. I heard he does not play a lick of defense though. That would have been discouraging. Granger would have been my pick probably. He is both athletic and a great defensive player. Him and Pietrus could lock up almost any back court when we needed defense. But overall, we needed a low post scorer more than anything. Pietrus could defend the guards and some sf but we had NO low post players. When we drafted Taft, I had forgotten all about him so I was happy to hear we picked him when it was announced. I had never heard of the HS kid so I was happy we took a gamble on him at a low draft pick.
Anyone think Granger could be the next Scottie Pippen? I sure hope Diogu is worth it because REREM pretty much sold Chris Mullin and Mike Montgomery on his assessment Anyway here's more evidence that Mullin could talk with Monty about deploying Murphy as a center. On Diogu: <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> He can shoot the ball away from the basket, but he?s the type of guy who can get on the block and hold his position not just on the defensive end. We can play inside-out with him in the low post. We think Ike fits the description of a player who can score the ball and defend his position. I think Ike will defend his position with his strength. Having him able to give the lineup different looks and not just having to score from the perimeter. I see Ike being able to spread the floor for Troy (Murphy), having Ike work in the block for him. I think over time we?re going to feel good about that and I think that gives us a lot of options. </div> He did say "inside-out", but I hope he meant it in a way where Diogu would not be a small forward and it was merely implying Murphy, the center, plays out, while Diogu, the power forward, plays in. Hopefully those Diogu offensive rebounds will be Elton Brand-like. Some say Elton Brand is overrated because he's on a losing team, but hey I think he's underrated for being on such a team notoriously known for tremendous roster turnover. You can't win without some continuity and to do that you need a good owner that can pony up and do what it takes out of necessity for the team and the future.
I think Mullin made a couple of things clear by this past draft: 1. By passsing on Granger, a guy who most had rated higher than Diogu and who supposedly has a similar skill set as Dunleavy, Mullin is saying Dunleavy is the team's sf of the future. And if Dunleavy doesn't work out, Pietrus would be next in line. 2. By drafting Diogu and Taft, Murphy is going to play more and more center. It makes sense to go with a smaller line up if the Warriors are going to play a more up tempo style. Personally, I don't think Murphy is as bad a defender as some people make him out to be. And if he bulks up another 10-15 pounds, I think he'd be just fine as a center.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting wtwalker77:</div><div class="quote_post">I think Mullin made a couple of things clear by this past draft: 1. By passsing on Granger, a guy who most had rated higher than Diogu and who supposedly has a similar skill set as Dunleavy, Mullin is saying Dunleavy is the team's sf of the future. And if Dunleavy doesn't work out, Pietrus would be next in line. 2. By drafting Diogu and Taft, Murphy is going to play more and more center. It makes sense to go with a smaller line up if the Warriors are going to play a more up tempo style. Personally, I don't think Murphy is as bad a defender as some people make him out to be. And if he bulks up another 10-15 pounds, I think he'd be just fine as a center.</div> I'm glad we're keeping the team together at least. Baron, Jrich, Murphy are all saying that's what needs to be done to preserve the team chemistry. The one thing I don't like about Murphy being center is that, although he is tall + big enough for it, I don't think he's going to be the type to patrol the paint and protect it well and that's usually what the role of center requires. We need presence. Unless Diogu is a Ben Wallace/Emeka Okafor type defender, it's going to be the 2003 Pistons with Ben Wallace/ Mehmet Okur without Ben Wallace, which is why they tried to go after Sheed later on because Okur just can't get it done defensively. But I guess you can't ask for too much and at least Murphy was the type of player that went from a skinny 230-240 (listed 240 on draft day, although he appeared 230) to a muscular lean 245-250 (listed now as 245) to hold his own in the post and getting inside position for rebounds. Gotta love Murphy's heart when it comes to boards and his great hands. Maybe we'll see this year if the foot injury he had was holding him back. I want to see more of Murphy doing what he did in the first or second game against Milwaukee last season where he's just absolutely abusing the other team's big man with putback dunks, inside scoring, and dribble penetration (Murph has some ballhandling since being a former guard in his earlier youth). Pick and roll is going to be so fun at the center and forward spots! BTW Dunleavy's kind of growing on me merely because of that Dallas/Phoenix game where he showed killer instinct, scored when needed, and then finally stood up for himself after getting shafted so many times by Bill Spinner and the other blind mice. Dun was hitting shots, moving his feet, hustling and actually deserved those minutes during that stretch. I want to see what he does this year before I jump on the Dun bandwagon because I think the "Manleavy" effect wore off and I just go back to remembering all the other stuff he was just struggling with for so long. Also I'm a huge, huge fan of Pietrus and Zarko team chemistry. But I like Mullin's decision to keep the team together because that's what our franchise players wanted. Dunleavy isn't a highlight reel but you have to admire those passes he does. First time I've seen an alley oop dunk right off the inbound pass or an "on the money alley oop pass" to a 70% Baron Davis. Also I loved how he schooled some athletic players in that Orlando and Phoenix game where he played some power forward for about 3 games and bigs couldn't stay with him in transition or in the halfcourt because of the ability to create his own shot. He even faked an athletic guy out with the behind the back dribble which is pretty crafty for a guy that doesn't speed up very quickly. He's pretty fast when he gets a running start, but from a standstill, no Pietrus like explosiveness!
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting wtwalker77:</div><div class="quote_post"> Personally, I don't think Murphy is as bad a defender as some people make him out to be. And if he bulks up another 10-15 pounds, I think he'd be just fine as a center.</div> He still needs more lower body strength and would offer no weak side defense. Not only that but he gets his shot blocked by guards i.e. Aaron McKie. Bulking up won't help him anymore. He's definitley lost some lift & agility since his rookie year when he dunked in DD's face. He needs to gain strength as opposed to more bulk.
I think Murph needs to lose weight so he can get some spring back in his leap and avoid future foot injury by taking off the weight his body probably isn't built to handle. He came into the league really skinny so I'm not sure if 245 is optimal for him. He's lost some agility like USDS pointed out, possibly due to recurring injury or fatigue, but I believe he can be like Josh McRoberts (2005 high school dunk contest runner up) if he just sheds some pounds and goes 230-235. He's not that quick, but he's tough, coordinated and tall enough to finish strong if he puts his mind into it. (Maybe the Shawn Bradley incident messed him up a bit when he went up in the air for the slam in 2003-2004). Hopefully, at a lower weight, he can still get position for the rebound in midair and hold position in the post while being mobile enough to keep the opposing offense at bay and still not get his back ruined by heavier, stronger power forwards. Right now, Murph can hold the post and is not bad defensively there, but what good is playing in the post against scorers like Elton Brand, Jermaine O'neil, Shareef or Zach Randolph if you can't play D with your feet or be crafty like Dale Davis/Cliff Robinson with the knocking away the ball or forcing the travel. He hardly gets steals or blocked shots and is a hands down type of player so I don't know if he'll ever be reliable unless he takes more risks and is willing to take a foul to save a layup. I mean it's bad enough when we lose a lot of points at the foul line, but we also give up easy points in bunches at times.
Sorry to double post, but this is the Murph I was totally hoping would come back. (Article about the emphatic dunk on defensive allstar Dale Davis) This is the Murph that people forget, including me, since players are remembered for their recent game. This was why Murph became one of my favorites. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?...&type=printable <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">TROY MURPHY posterized Dale Davis last night, then got a little too much in Davis' face for the official's liking, so he got his second technical of the game and an ejection. When he left the floor, to a mixture of cheers for his audacious act and boos for the refs, he slapped hands with the fans in the runway leading to the locker room.</div> <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> "People see the big white guy, and they think he's slow, he can't jump, he's this, that and the other thing," Murphy pointed out in the winning locker room -- which he helped make the winning locker room with his statement dunk. "From first glance, people think certain things about you. It's happened all my life." It happened in the Warriors' training camp -- until, quickly, Murphy showed them that he shared very little besides pigmentation with the players to whom Cowens referred. Admit it, you all said, "Oh great, another Todd Fuller," back in June. Fuller could have had mini-rocket boosters implanted in his feet and never pulled off what Murphy pulled off last night. "That's stereotyping," noted Antawn Jamison, who admitted that he jumped to the same conclusion (since jumping comes natural to him, but not to a guy like Murphy) when he first saw his new teammate. "You know, 'He's a white boy who can shoot the ball, he's not a guy who's able to do something like that.' No, we're not surprised at all." </div> Also http://www.nba.com/games/20011104/PORGSW/recap.html
I liked what the W's did with their picks. Would I have done things differently...I don't know. The W's feel they are close, they wanted a player that could play right now, and have an impact. They also wanted to improve three very weak areas: interior scoring, rebounding, interior toughness. Some thoughts... Green: He measured 6-7, 192 and he wouldn't work out against other players, so he made it very difficult to evaluate him. Reports said he is very long, but his reach is about average for his height. Right now, he's a 2. He might grow into a 3, or he might not. Final thought, he was considered the best HS player, but the HS class wasn't considered great this year. We don't need another 2, and his skills don't address our team needs. Granger: I loved what I read about him, I wanted the W's to draft him. Then I saw some video of him and, frankly, he is not quick. No explosiveness in his first step. He's gonna be a good player, but I no longer think he'll be an upgrade over Dun. Murphy to C: As guys get older, they tend to get bigger, not smaller. I doubt Murphy will ever play at 230. I think playing him (part time?) at C makes sense to me. We lose some defense compared to Foyle/Beans but think about running a high post through Murph, Ike down low, JR and Dun on the wings waiting to shoot threes. Nasty! Plus, it would likely improve our rebounding. One caveat: I don't know that he was 100% healthy last year, I hope the foot problems are finally behind him. That might help his quickness a little. On the dunk on DD, I think we need to put some perspective on that. DD's an interior guy, not a perimeter defender. And that is the one and only time the Murph did anything like that. I loved it, but that was a one time event. Finally, I think either the Murphy or Foyle contract will have to go at some point soon. So, he needs to contribute at both positions, or he could be gone (assuming Ike pans out). Dunleavy: I still think people underestimate him. Yeah, his D is weak and he doesn't seem inspired all the time. The whole team plays bad D. The only way they are going to get substantially better is if they improve team defense. But if you get rid of Dun, you have to replace your starting SF, your second best ball handler, second or third best shooter, second best passer, third string PG, and your third string PF. He's no star, he's not great at any one thing, but he gets 12 or so points within the flow of the game (they don't really run plays for him, he's probably the 4th option). He rebounds well for a SF. I don't think there were any sure bet SF's in the draft that could replace him... Ellis: I think it's clear that Mully likes PGs that can score (so do I, as long as they can run the offense, too), and this kid can score. Ellis is not a PG, yet, but that will be his position if he makes the NBA. We don't have any minutes for a PG right now, so grab the kid with upside, and stick him in the NBDL. I would have been happy with Ukic, but he wouldn't have gotten any time. Taft: I don't mind the pick. I don't know if I like it, but at 42, I'll let the guys who get paid to make these decisions do their thing. He's got the body, if nothing else...
What I would have done is Granger at 9, he is ine of the better defenders and scorers in the draft for his position, can rebound and can play two postitions. Ellis and Taft and 40 and 42 are good with me.
