Should the Warriors waive Foyle or Fisher?

Currently the team's salary is $55.8 million and the new projected cap is going to be somewhere between $48 and $51 million. Dunleavy will be looking for a contract extension that kicks in next summer, and Pietrus will look for one the summer after that.

Under the new CBA, each team will be given a one-time option this summer to waive one player from its roster and receive luxury tax relief. The team will still have to pay the player and his salary will still count against the cap, but the team won't have to pay a luxury tax on his salary.

According to Hoopshype.com, Foyle has 4 years and $34 million left on his deal with a team option (I'm assuming no team will ever pick up this option) for a 5th year at $10.5 million. Fisher has 5 years and $31.5 million left on his deal.

If you were Mullin/Cohan, would you waive either player?

It's easy to say, "yeah, waive Foyle, we've got enough big men coming in," but do you think you could sell Cohan on just giving away $34 million over the next four years?

I don't know what I'd do if I were Mullin. It'd be a hard thing to go into Cohan's office and have the following conversation:

Mullin: Hey Chris...uh...sir...you know those massive contracts for Foyle and Fisher I talked you into signing last summer?

Cohan: Do you mean the ones I'd never let St. Jean sign?

Mullin: Yeah...well, I'd like to waive one of those guys.

Cohan: (spit-taking his non-fat latte all over his mahogany desk) What?!? Why?!?

Mullin: Okay, get this...you'll love this. The new CBA will allow us to waive one of those guys so their salary won't count against the cap.

Cohan: Oh, is that all? So we can get out of paying their contracts?

Mullin: Yes...well no. You'll still have to pay their salaries, but the point is we could re-sign both Dunleavy and Pietrus and we could probably stay away from the luxury tax.

Cohan: Probably? (reaching for the gun he keeps in his desk)

Mullin: Yeah, well...(beginning to sweat)...err, you see sir...it all depends on how much we decide to pay Dunleavy and Pietrus. (hears a click coming from Cohan's desk that sounds a lot like a revolver being cocked) But we can talk about that later...(turns and rushes for the door)...g'bye!

I'd say it's unlikely that the Warriors will waive either player, they've got a better shot of getting rid of them through trade. But if the eventual plan is to move Murphy to center and start Diogu or Biedrins, this might be the Warriors best/only chance at getting rid of Foyle's contract.

 

They should waive Foyle, they got 2 posts in the draft in Diogu and Taft so they can afford to lose him.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting wtwalker77:</div><div class="quote_post">
Cohan: Probably? (reaching for the gun he keeps in his desk)
</div>
That was best part of it!

Well I hope they waive Foyl, otherwise I don't see the point in taking Taft and not Adrisikavicus or Blatche with that last pick...

 

Well, if push comes to the shove, we may have to waive Fisher to attempt to resign Dunleavy and Pietrus. I seriously doubt that we will waive Foyle, because we need shot blocking presence desperately, and Murphy is far from being that presence. And, that's why I don't think Murphy will be a full time starting center. Of course, everything is if Cohan decide to bite Fisher's contract to begin with. There is no question that new CBA gave us a breathing room, and probably prevented impending doom for one year. However, that probably won't be enough to save us from last offseason's massive spending. I really wish Mullin learned from last offseason, so that's one of the reason I wanted to draft Green to gain advantage when it comes to Dunleavy resigning, but with Dunleavy being only natural sf, the resigning process will be an uphill battle to begin with. Also, with Mullin's undying love toward Dunleavy, not resigning Dunleavy seems to be out of option at this point. Anything above 6 mils per year is overpaying in my book, but with this rate, I don't know 8 mils per year will do the job done...

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Kwan1031:</div><div class="quote_post">I seriously doubt that we will waive Foyle, because we need shot blocking presence desperately...</div>
Form what I understand that is basicly financial manipulation. We waive him to get the cap space, I and sign him again, if he does not pull some dirty trick, like Boozer did. So both Warriors and Foyle (more $) are Winners (cap space), and we Warriors still have shot blocking presence in person of Foyl. I bet the tricky part is that, Cohan has to pay more money...

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting hipokrat_x(LV):</div><div class="quote_post"> That was best part of it!

Well I hope they waive Foyl, otherwise I don't see the point in taking Taft and not Adrisikavicus or Blatche with that last pick...</div>
Good stuff Walker. I think it would be better to waive Foyle at the latest deadline if Cohan is unwilling to pay luxury tax. You never know if he could make a comeback in terms of rebounds, but he's my least favorite player because of his frying pan hands and lack of fundamentals. Plus, he's the only remnant left of the Twardzick/PJ era so that would be very symbolic to rid ourselves of those memories of the past where we kept picking dumb picks and went on a huge playoff drought. Whatever is left on his contract would be his reward for showing heart in every game and his community service, so I think that's plenty ethical. Besides, I bet Fisher retires sooner than his contract ends and he's already got rings. He plays because he loves it and if his body ain't able to he may go the Rick Fox route and just retire.

Unless Foyle's contract lands us additional talent or we get some expiring deal, I'd figure he'd be the one to go. I don't know many teams asking around for Foyle as much as they might do with Fisher because of the name and the demand for players who can handle pressure, shoot, and provide veteran experience to mentor today's young point guards.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting hipokrat_x(LV):</div><div class="quote_post">Form what I understand that is basicly financial monuplation. We wave him to get the cap space, I and sign him again, if he does not pull some dirty trick, like Boozer did. So both Warriors and Foyle (more $) are Winners (cap space), and we Warriors still have shot blocking presence in person of Foyl. I bet the tricky part is that, Cohan has to pay more money...</div> You can't re-sign the same player that was waived. I don't know how long that waiver period is or if there is even a waiver period to re-sign Foyle is nobody picks him up by a certain time. I just wish we could know what Diogu is capable of because if you think about overpaid, I think Murph is overpaid as much as Fisher and Foyle and its not like he's the kind of guy that will outproduce the number of times we give up layups. Richardson is the guy who is probably overpaid in the beginning, but he's delivered so much and he's got all these intangibles like being one of the faces of the franchise and delivers so much of the scoring at a reasonable fg%. He'll be a bargain all-star if he keeps improving and improving. I think his upside could be that of Paul Pierce. Troy Murphy? We'll see this year if he's healthy...

Also the reason I don't say waive Fisher is because like his game or not he does have some great intangibles and he and Pietrus + Biedrins could be great off the bench. Fisher's got balls that for sure when it comes to taking clutch shots. I get on him because he is so frustrating at times when he tries to shoot off the dribble couple seconds after he crosses the halfcourt or the fact he overdribbles quite a bit. But he's not horrible once he's got a big man and a shooting guard, like Pietrus, to rely on. It's kind of like mini-Lakers off the bench. Also Fisher can contest shots really well which is nice to have, but I wish he could be a bit quicker when defending those speedy point guards that can penetrate to the rim. Oh well, hopefully Monta Ellis can be groomed for that role. He's got really good lateral speed I heard and his upside is anywhere from Chauncey Billups (more athletic) to Stevie Francis. So if Fish retires, hopefully Ellis will see the same strides that Biedrins saw coming out of training camp right into the pros in limited minutes (double/double for an 18 year old rook in his first start is pretty good).

http://www.draftexpress.com/viewprofile.php?p=289

 

Some things to take into account (at least as I understand the rules):

If you waive a player, you still have to pay them.

The salary still count against the salary cap; you just don't have to pay the luxury tax on the waived contract.

If a team waives a player, they cannot resign them.

Even if a team pays luxury taxes, they get a share of the payout. This is new in the CBA...it lessens the impact of the taxes.

Last year, the luxury tax threshold was $54.7 m last year, according to Chad Ford - Insider (that's the point at which a team would start paying). It's not clear what it will be this year, but we are just barely over it right now.

The rule is a one time event, and must be used this summer.

One thing I'm not clear on: does a team have to be over the luxury tax threshold to be eligible to use this rule? I've seen some post saying that you do have to be over, but I'm not sure? Anyone?

Trade rules have been softened, salaries have to be within 125% or each other, up from 115%.

Now, taking the above into consideration: Do you waive your starting C or your backup PG (Baron has a history of injury) to save a few million in taxes?

First point, if we are not eligible, this is all moot.

Next point, the tough decision. Both Foyle and Fisher are important pieces of the team as it stands. We would have to replace them if we waived them, and then we'd be stuck with paying them anyway, and our cap number would still be ugly.

Who could we get to replace them, and how much would that cost? Does it make sense to waive a player for luxury relief, and then replace them with a slightly smaller contract?

My thoughts...it saves us very little to waive F or F, and hurts the team as a whole. I think we have to hope to trade one or both, assuming the W's feel they are expendable. They are overpaid, but they can still play, and they both bring experience and character. They may have some value to another team.

But if the team is kicking butt, I hope the W's are willing to pay some taxes to keep the team together.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting hipokrat_x(LV):</div><div class="quote_post">Form what I understand that is basicly financial manipulation. We waive him to get the cap space, I and sign him again, if he does not pull some dirty trick, like Boozer did. So both Warriors and Foyle (more $) are Winners (cap space), and we Warriors still have shot blocking presence in person of Foyl. I bet the tricky part is that, Cohan has to pay more money...</div>

Waiving him will not provide any caproom, and his salary will count against our caproom for next 4 years. It only gives an relief against luxury tax counting. Therefore, our caproom space will still be 55 mils range this year and increasing, even if we waive Foyle...

 

Thx fansince75,Kwan1031 and custodian for explanations... I agree with fansince75 - Foyl still is starting center and I think nor Biedrins or Murphy can fill that spot now (at least you can't tell that in midle of the summer). It looks like Warriors just should look for a good trade, or just keep things as they are...

 

i think they should waive foyle. this might sound crazy, but fisher would be a good backup for davis, but foyle is basically a stiff

 

Hey custodian, your sig so funny i'm laughing right now.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting lessthanjake:</div><div class="quote_post">i think they should waive foyle. this might sound crazy, but fisher would be a good backup for davis, but foyle is basically a stiff</div>

First, Foyle is far from stiff, and in order for us to go anywhere, we need him or his type of player desperately, because we rely on shot blocking presence in the middle quite a bit. Besides, none of our position players are known for lock down defense, if not bad at that. When, Foyle played like a true stiff in first half, our defense completely crumbled because we have no shot blocking presence. So, we rolled red carpet to opposing players, gave up literary 50% fg, and in consequence, we lost most of games. But when he finally started to play well with Davis' help, our defense got much better, opp fg % got lower, and in consequence, we won a lot of games. If you want to start thinking about waiving Foyle, either Biedrins or Diogu needs to prove that they can be as much of inside defense force as Foyle and more, because even with Foyle, we still need a hlep in inside...

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting TwinTowers:</div><div class="quote_post">Hey custodian, your sig so funny i'm laughing right now.</div>
Hehe, thanks

I was inspired by the man, himself. That and the late night infommercial on the Spike channel trying to sell those videos.

http://www.gswpete.com/ has the actual clip and what's great about the clip is it shows Dunleavy hesitating about doing it and then it shows the guy who caught the jersey and immediately put it on and under his jacket.

I'm just hoping that if the real Dunleavy Jr. comes across my sig, he won't sue and actually take it as a compliment.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Kwan1031:</div><div class="quote_post">First, Foyle is far from stiff, and in order for us to go anywhere, we need him or his type of player desperately, because we rely on shot blocking presence in the middle quite a bit. Besides, none of our position players are known for lock down defense, if not bad at that. When, Foyle played like a true stiff in first half, our defense completely crumbled because we have no shot blocking presence. So, we rolled red carpet to opposing players, gave up literary 50% fg, and in consequence, we lost most of games. But when he finally started to play well with Davis' help, our defense got much better, opp fg % got lower, and in consequence, we won a lot of games. If you want to start thinking about waiving Foyle, either Biedrins or Diogu needs to prove that they can be as much of inside defense force as Foyle and more, because even with Foyle, we still need a hlep in inside...</div> Well, the alternative is we could get an undrafted guy that is probably more ready than we think. Dwayne Jones perhaps? Heck I'd take a chance on underachiever, Randolph Morris, if there was some way of knowing whether it would equate to either Zarko or Pietrus being re-signed. I just don't think Foyle is worth it to lose an important player that we could get somebody similar to, like Reuben Boumtje Boumtje or Mamadou N'dye. Foyle practically makes 8 to 10 mil a year which is ridiculous at a guaranteed 4 years. I'll take the Georgetown or Auburn center over toothpaste university if there was any way to guarantee us being able to retain 1 or 2 players and not lose them to free agency. I think this all depends if Pietrus or Zarko wants to start or if some team is willing to raise contract offers to whatever we're unwilling to match.

 

This is the season to watch the team and evaluate. We have too many good players to realistically keep them all, and we don't have enough minutes for them all. But it's not totally clear who our core guys are, yet...

Players with contracts coming up:
2004/5 - Skita
2005/6 - Dunleavy, Cheaney
2006/7 - Zarko and Pietrus
2007/8 - Beans
2008/9 - Ike, Foyle (option year we won't pick up, I assume)

Players getting paid too much:
Fisher
Foyle
Murphy (my opinion, but not so much that he's untradable...he's BYC this year, so very hard to trade right now)

We have an extra first round pick in 2007, a couple extra seconds in 2007, to add talent or trade. Also, Monta Ellis won't be a factor for two years, and Taft is a wildcard.

To me, the options are endless, depending on the situation. For instance:

- If Ike (or Taft) and Beans come on strong, you could keep Foyle, and move Murphy (he's easier to trade).
- If Zarko improves, or Pietrus grows , we could let Dunleavy walk.
- If Dunleavy explodes, we could trade Zarko or Pietrus (maybe packaged with F or F and a first round pick).

These are just ideas, I'm sure some won't like them, but it's more about how much flexibility we have. It's been a while since we were dealing from a position of strength...how nice it is.

 

Derek Fisher is still tradable, Foyle just needs to be waived or assassinated.

 

I guess we'll never know if we can waive a player (luxury tax amnesty) due to the rules of the CBA that fansince75 pointed out.

Do we have that option to use the Luxury Tax amnesty? I'd imagine the only teams that really qualify for that are the Knicks, the Mavericks, the Pacers, and maybe Philadelphia because they are definitely paying the luxury tax. We're over the salary cap, but we're not in trouble just yet. Can we get amnesty later since we did happen to be a team that did a lot of wheeling and dealing in the rules of the old collective bargaining agreement.

<font color="Red">EDIT: There's word on espn that Chad Ford says we can use the luxury tax amnesty option, so it may not be a matter of paying luxury now, but maybe in the near future? I will update later when I find the excerpt, but I'm assuming this applies to almost every team and not just the ones who are definitely paying luxury tax. This totally conflicts with what was written about teams who pay luxury tax, so I'm not sure who is doing their homework because the Blazers aren't paying luxury, I believe.

</font><font face="arial,sans-serif"><font size="2"> <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Teams that pay the luxury tax have a one-time opportunity to release a player. Such teams would still have to pay the player's salary, but he could earn a second salary with another team http://www.latimes.com/sports/basketball/n...ack=1&cset=true</div> </font></font>
I think given what we know now about the details of the contracts signed, we're really worried for seasons like 2008-2009 where it will really be tough for the Warriors.
Baron in that season makes 17 mil with Jrich probably making 13 or 14, Troy making 10-11. Add in Adonal's 10 mil, Derek Fisher's 7 mil, the money that we have to set aside for Biedrins, Dunleavy, Pietrus, Zarko, Diogu... Somebody has to go and it could be 3 of those 5 players that doesn't get re-signed.

I'm actually leaning now on Fisher to get waived since he may or may not retire by the time he's 35 when we're definitely in luxury tax if we try to keep more than 2 of those 5 players we have to decide on (Pietrus, Dunleavy, Zarko, Diogu, Biedrins).

Richardson has 70 mil for 6 years
Troy Murphy has 60 mil for 6 years.

It is too bad we couldn't change the salary incremental increases per year because those contracts get big in a hurry as the seasons pass. JR and TM's agent, Dan Fegan is a real bastard...

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1914283
http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries/golden_state.htm

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting custodianrules2:</div><div class="quote_post">There's word on espn that Chad Ford says we can use the luxury tax amnesty option, so it may not be a matter of paying luxury now, but maybe in the near future? I will update later when I find the excerpt, but I'm assuming this applies to almost every team and not just the ones who are definitely paying luxury tax. This totally conflicts with what was written about teams who pay luxury tax, so I'm not sure who is doing their homework because the Blazers aren't paying luxury, I believe.
</div>

Good work, CR2. I tried to make it clear in my previous post that this was the one piece of the rule that I wasn't clear on. I've seen so much conflicting info on the rule.

It'd be nice to get this clarified.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting fansince75:</div><div class="quote_post">Good work, CR2. I tried to make it clear in my previous post that this was the one piece of the rule that I wasn't clear on. I've seen so much conflicting info on the rule.

It'd be nice to get this clarified.</div>
Thanks, I'll keep an eye out if a credible source says it in bold. I know that Chad Ford has been talking about teams like the Lakers waiving Brian Grant or Eddie Jones getting waived using the amnesty. I'm sure whoever has ESPN insider can also confirm that this was said.