Hey, VC, why do you like proving me wrong, and Shannon Brown has always played SG in college, so Techinally Shakur is the top PG
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting J_Ray:</div><div class="quote_post">Hey, VC, why do you like proving me wrong, and Shannon Brown has always played SG in college, so Techinally Shakur is the top PG</div> It gives me a warm, fuzzy feeling inside. Plus, I just couldn't resist an opportunity to promote Shannon Brown. As for Brown playing Point Guard, I know he played a few games his Freshman year before we got Neitzel. Yes, he's been mostly a Shooting Guard in college, but since LeBron James is in their High School class, I can't rank Brown as the #1 Shooting Guard in the class. So I'm going to stick with calling Brown a High School Point Guard just so I can rank him #1 at something.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting J_Ray:</div><div class="quote_post">Well, the only reason he isn't noticed is because he's in the west. Most of the players in the west are in the shadow of others. Look at players most ppl dont even know about that are good Adams, Morrison(some one actually remembered him), Bryce Fisher, Jordan Farmar, and many others. Shakur was the top PG in his class. He was so high because he was on the East coast, the he moved to the west coast and everyone forgot about him. What exactly do you mean 5-8 PG, so if he's not in the top 5-8 range, is he better? </div> What I was saying is there are 5-8 better PG's then Shakur IMO.
Well since it's your opinion, why don't you name them, and give reason why they're better in your opion, then talk to me about it.
Diaz was an elite volley ball player, thats why he's atheletic, as for his basketball fundamentals, thats his weakness Stat wise, Diaz is better, and talent, potential wise, Diaz plays Reddick away, cause Diaz is a multi dementional combo guard, while Reddick is stricky a pure shooter who can spot up and hit his shots with unlimited range. Reddick 37.3 mins 21.8 ppg 3.3 rebs 2.6 assist 2.5 to A/T 1/1 Stl 1.1 FG % 40 FT% 93 3pt% 40 Diaz 34 mins 18.6 ppg 4.3 rebs 2.6 assist 2.4 to 1.1/1 1.5 stl 45% FG 70% FT 36% 3pt I'm not taking anything away from Reddick, I understand he's one fo the most respected college players and wins mean more than stats, but Diaz doesnt get much attention, and I just wanted to pointed that out, and lol watch for Miami, we're coming after you oh yeh Diaz will probably make the 2nd or 3rd team, but im pulling for first, cause that would be a huge accomplishment
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Stat wise, Diaz is better, and talent, potential wise, Diaz plays Reddick away oh yeh Diaz will probably make the 2nd or 3rd team, but im pulling for first, cause that would be a huge accomplishment</div> Stat wise, I don't think Diaz is better at all. Talent wise, seeing how I consider shooting ability a talent, I consider Redick more talented. Potential wise, it really doesn't matter that much, it's not the NBA Draft we're talking about; it's the NCAA regular season. As for probably making the 2nd or 3rd team, I doubt he makes either. There are way too many talented guards. Diaz is just not one of the six best college guards right now. The bottom line is that Diaz is a better draft prospect than Redick, but Redick is the better NCAA player, and that's what this thread is about.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting J_Ray:</div><div class="quote_post">Well since it's your opinion, why don't you name them, and give reason why they're better in your opion, then talk to me about it.</div> Daniel Gibson, Texas- Gibson was steller in his freshman year at Texas last season averaging 14 points per game and won Big 12 Freshman of the Year. He really had to step it up toward the end of the year because starters P.J. Tucker was ruled academically ineligible and LaMarcus Aldridge went down due to injury. I'm expecting Gibson to be huge this year with the weapons he's provided with in Tucker and Aldridge returning. If Gibson stays all 4 years, he could be one of the best PG's to ever come out of Texas! Rajon Rondo, Kentucky- Rondo did an outstanding job as the starting point guard last season in his first year at UK. Rondo wasn't even expected to start but came in and surprisingly broke Wayne Turner's freshman steal's record and was named to the 1st team all SEC Freshman Team. Rondo's vision of the game is amazing but he still needs to improve in a few areas on offense. Gerry McNamara, Syracuse- McNamara is one of the top five 3-point shooters in my mind. His 3-point % doesn't show that he's a good shooting guard, but he's very streaky and hits the 3 at right times. McNamara was originally a SG coming out of HS but is forced to play the PG spot due to his size. With Hakim Warrick gone, McNamara will have to carry the load on offense, so he's in for a big year in my opinion. Justin Gray, Wake Forest- Gray will get the chance to be the starting guard for Wake Forest this season with Chris Paul gone. He quietly averaged 16 points a game last year and flew under the radar with all the hype on Chris Paul. Gray was forced to play SG but will get the chance to move back to his original position at point guard and shouldn't disappoint. Daniel Horton, Michigan- Unfortunately, Horton was suspended for most of last year and fell under the radar due to that. He had a pretty good freshman year averaging 15 points per game and was then labeled as Michigan's future PG. He was even projected to be a 1st round pick at that time. He looked like he was going to explode last year in the first 13 games averaging 12 per game and 5 assists a game, but that quickly changed after he was suspended. Now he's back, and should be better than ever. Mardy Collins, Temple- If he would have left Temple this season, he likely would have been a lotto pick. He has size that scouts dream of at 6'5 and plays guard. He averaged 5 rebound as a guard, 17 points, and 2 steals per game. He is probably the most underrated PG in all of college basketball and may just be the best guard. Jeff Horner, Iowa- You want a guard with a great all-around game, then Horner is your guy. Averaged 14 pts, 4 boards, and 5 assists a game. He basically took over last season when Pierre Pierce was kicked off the team. And now that Pierce is gone, Horner's stats should skyrocket now that he's the main option on this Iowa team. Marcus Williams, UConn- He too is vastly underrated. No, he's not a big scoring threat, but averaged 8 assists last season. Now, UConn is being called one of the best teams and this team has so much depth, Williams should get the attention he deserves. Aaron Brooks, Oregon- Brooks shined last season in Oregon averaging 15 pts per game and 5 assists with the help of Malik Hairson in the backcourt. Now that Hairston has another year of experience and the same for Odia, Brooks' assists will only increase. Derek Raivio, Gonzaga- Gonzaga will be a dangerous team this year, and Raivio also had one heck of a season last year statistically as a sophomore(13 pts, 4 assists, 1 steal per game). He also has Player of the Year canidate Adam Morrison along side. I'd rather have all these guys over Shakur IMHO! EDIT: I also forgot to stick Memphis sophomore guard Darius Washington Jr. in there and Illinois senior guard Dee Brown.
PG - Dee Brown finally gets out of the shadows of Deron Williams and Luther Head. The one man fastbreak will have the spotlight on him all season and he should have Illinois competing in the Big 10. The best point guard in the nation, no, but definitely the most explosive and exciting one. If he didn't get injured at the Pre-Draft camp, he'd be playing on a Summer League roster. SG - JJ Reddick he can shoot the lights out and he will lead Duke to #1 in the Top 25 rankings, the team is stacked this year despite losing Ewing and Shav SF - Adam Morrison, tough position to choose because of all the talent at SF next season. Rudy Gay is going to have a lot of hype around him, but Morrison is consistent and Gonzaga will be strong again next year even though Turiaf is gone. Keep an eye on JP Batista breaking out. PF - I'd love to have a Pac -10 representative, and Leon Powe would be my choice here, however it's a biased pick so I'll just plug him and go with Chris Smith. I expect him to be Mr. Double Double next year. C - Paul Davis, no Voodoo Child did not brainwash me into picking him. I picked Paul Davis because he outplayed Shelden Williams head to head last year in the NCAA Tourney. He held his own against Sean May in the Tourney, I expect him to be even better this year. The addition of McRoberts and Boateng is going to steal some numbers from Shelden. Last year Shelden put up 15/11 a game, but I think Paul Davis will surpass those numbers this season. Maybe not in the rebounding department, but I'm predicting him to score between 18 to 20 PPG next year at MSU. His ability to get to the FT line and out muscle players for offensive rebounds will keep his scoring numbers up. Also I expect the offense to run through him more next season with Asquared gone.
I think that Davis is a solid candidate, too, but Voodoo Child may be inclined to disagree with us. "He hasn't done anything! He was just a top recruit"
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting UKOwnstheSEC:</div><div class="quote_post">Daniel Gibson, Texas- Gibson was steller in his freshman year at Texas last season averaging 14 points per game and won Big 12 Freshman of the Year. He really had to step it up toward the end of the year because starters P.J. Tucker was ruled academically ineligible and LaMarcus Aldridge went down due to injury. I'm expecting Gibson to be huge this year with the weapons he's provided with in Tucker and Aldridge returning. If Gibson stays all 4 years, he could be one of the best PG's to ever come out of Texas! Rajon Rondo, Kentucky- Rondo did an outstanding job as the starting point guard last season in his first year at UK. Rondo wasn't even expected to start but came in and surprisingly broke Wayne Turner's freshman steal's record and was named to the 1st team all SEC Freshman Team. Rondo's vision of the game is amazing but he still needs to improve in a few areas on offense. Gerry McNamara, Syracuse- McNamara is one of the top five 3-point shooters in my mind. His 3-point % doesn't show that he's a good shooting guard, but he's very streaky and hits the 3 at right times. McNamara was originally a SG coming out of HS but is forced to play the PG spot due to his size. With Hakim Warrick gone, McNamara will have to carry the load on offense, so he's in for a big year in my opinion. Justin Gray, Wake Forest- Gray will get the chance to be the starting guard for Wake Forest this season with Chris Paul gone. He quietly averaged 16 points a game last year and flew under the radar with all the hype on Chris Paul. Gray was forced to play SG but will get the chance to move back to his original position at point guard and shouldn't disappoint. Daniel Horton, Michigan- Unfortunately, Horton was suspended for most of last year and fell under the radar due to that. He had a pretty good freshman year averaging 15 points per game and was then labeled as Michigan's future PG. He was even projected to be a 1st round pick at that time. He looked like he was going to explode last year in the first 13 games averaging 12 per game and 5 assists a game, but that quickly changed after he was suspended. Now he's back, and should be better than ever. Mardy Collins, Temple- If he would have left Temple this season, he likely would have been a lotto pick. He has size that scouts dream of at 6'5 and plays guard. He averaged 5 rebound as a guard, 17 points, and 2 steals per game. He is probably the most underrated PG in all of college basketball and may just be the best guard. Jeff Horner, Iowa- You want a guard with a great all-around game, then Horner is your guy. Averaged 14 pts, 4 boards, and 5 assists a game. He basically took over last season when Pierre Pierce was kicked off the team. And now that Pierce is gone, Horner's stats should skyrocket now that he's the main option on this Iowa team. Marcus Williams, UConn- He too is vastly underrated. No, he's not a big scoring threat, but averaged 8 assists last season. Now, UConn is being called one of the best teams and this team has so much depth, Williams should get the attention he deserves. Aaron Brooks, Oregon- Brooks shined last season in Oregon averaging 15 pts per game and 5 assists with the help of Malik Hairson in the backcourt. Now that Hairston has another year of experience and the same for Odia, Brooks' assists will only increase. Derek Raivio, Gonzaga- Gonzaga will be a dangerous team this year, and Raivio also had one heck of a season last year statistically as a sophomore(13 pts, 4 assists, 1 steal per game). He also has Player of the Year canidate Adam Morrison along side. I'd rather have all these guys over Shakur IMHO!</div> Hey, that's a great list and some great explanations! However, I have to disagree with you that Raivio is a better player. While I don't think Shakur is better than any of those players except for Raivio, he'd be ranked as one of my next five or ten players though, and considering how many Point Guards there are in college basketball, that's pretty elite comany. Shakur has underachieved at Arizona, and he still needs to cut down on his turnovers, but I think that with Stoudamire, Adams, and Frye getting a lot of touches, anyone would have a hard time putting up good a ppg average, similar the situation Shannon Brown and Marvin Williams were in last season. With the team being his (and Adams') this season, I think Shakur should have a breakout year, and that's one of the main reasons that a lot of people are calling Arizona a preseason top 10 team. Or maybe we're all just living in the past and can't get over the fact that there was a time when Mustafa Shakur was considered the #2 Point Guard prospect in all of college basketball.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Schaddy:</div><div class="quote_post"> I think that Davis is a solid candidate, too, but Voodoo Child may be inclined to disagree with us. "He hasn't done anything! He was just a top recruit" </div> Hah, I think he just wants to avoid jinxing it. There are plenty of arguments against Davis, but I think he's a safe gamble to be the top Center next year. I wonder if he's capable of putting up Andrew Bogut numbers?
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">C - Paul Davis, no Voodoo Child did not brainwash me into picking him. I picked Paul Davis because he outplayed Shelden Williams head to head last year in the NCAA Tourney. He held his own against Sean May in the Tourney, I expect him to be even better this year. The addition of McRoberts and Boateng is going to steal some numbers from Shelden. Last year Shelden put up 15/11 a game, but I think Paul Davis will surpass those numbers this season. Maybe not in the rebounding department, but I'm predicting him to score between 18 to 20 PPG next year at MSU. His ability to get to the FT line and out muscle players for offensive rebounds will keep his scoring numbers up. Also I expect the offense to run through him more next season with Asquared gone.</div> Haha, thanks for not giving me credit. It seems like everytime someone ranks Michigan State high it's because they've "been talking to Voodoo Child too much". You know what though, I was going to say what Schaddy said I would say. Am I that predictable? He's been servicable for us, but not first team material. He definitely has the potential. In fact, we have three potential All-Americans on our team this year, and that's why I'm going to love to watch next season. Ager just needs to have another season like he did this year and he should be up there, but Davis and Brown are real shots in the dark. Nobody can really tell what they'll do because nobody has seen them in as big of roles as they'll be playing next season. That would be crazy for Davis' draft stock if he made the first team though. A near 7-0, 1st Team All-American? You'd have teams in the top 10 looking at him. As for Andrew Bogut, I highly doubt anyone playing for Duke, Michigan State, Connecticut, Texas, or Villanova next season will be able to put up those kind of numbers. Maybe Davis could put up those numbers on Utah though.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Voodoo Child:</div><div class="quote_post">Stat wise, I don't think Diaz is better at all. Talent wise, seeing how I consider shooting ability a talent, I consider Redick more talented. Potential wise, it really doesn't matter that much, it's not the NBA Draft we're talking about; it's the NCAA regular season. As for probably making the 2nd or 3rd team, I doubt he makes either. There are way too many talented guards. Diaz is just not one of the six best college guards right now. The bottom line is that Diaz is a better draft prospect than Redick, but Redick is the better NCAA player, and that's what this thread is about.</div> We'll see this season.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting UKOwnstheSEC:</div><div class="quote_post">Daniel Gibson, Texas- Gibson was steller in his freshman year at Texas last season averaging 14 points per game and won Big 12 Freshman of the Year. He really had to step it up toward the end of the year because starters P.J. Tucker was ruled academically ineligible and LaMarcus Aldridge went down due to injury. I'm expecting Gibson to be huge this year with the weapons he's provided with in Tucker and Aldridge returning. If Gibson stays all 4 years, he could be one of the best PG's to ever come out of Texas! Rajon Rondo, Kentucky- Rondo did an outstanding job as the starting point guard last season in his first year at UK. Rondo wasn't even expected to start but came in and surprisingly broke Wayne Turner's freshman steal's record and was named to the 1st team all SEC Freshman Team. Rondo's vision of the game is amazing but he still needs to improve in a few areas on offense. Gerry McNamara, Syracuse- McNamara is one of the top five 3-point shooters in my mind. His 3-point % doesn't show that he's a good shooting guard, but he's very streaky and hits the 3 at right times. McNamara was originally a SG coming out of HS but is forced to play the PG spot due to his size. With Hakim Warrick gone, McNamara will have to carry the load on offense, so he's in for a big year in my opinion. Justin Gray, Wake Forest- Gray will get the chance to be the starting guard for Wake Forest this season with Chris Paul gone. He quietly averaged 16 points a game last year and flew under the radar with all the hype on Chris Paul. Gray was forced to play SG but will get the chance to move back to his original position at point guard and shouldn't disappoint. Daniel Horton, Michigan- Unfortunately, Horton was suspended for most of last year and fell under the radar due to that. He had a pretty good freshman year averaging 15 points per game and was then labeled as Michigan's future PG. He was even projected to be a 1st round pick at that time. He looked like he was going to explode last year in the first 13 games averaging 12 per game and 5 assists a game, but that quickly changed after he was suspended. Now he's back, and should be better than ever. Mardy Collins, Temple- If he would have left Temple this season, he likely would have been a lotto pick. He has size that scouts dream of at 6'5 and plays guard. He averaged 5 rebound as a guard, 17 points, and 2 steals per game. He is probably the most underrated PG in all of college basketball and may just be the best guard. Jeff Horner, Iowa- You want a guard with a great all-around game, then Horner is your guy. Averaged 14 pts, 4 boards, and 5 assists a game. He basically took over last season when Pierre Pierce was kicked off the team. And now that Pierce is gone, Horner's stats should skyrocket now that he's the main option on this Iowa team. Marcus Williams, UConn- He too is vastly underrated. No, he's not a big scoring threat, but averaged 8 assists last season. Now, UConn is being called one of the best teams and this team has so much depth, Williams should get the attention he deserves. Aaron Brooks, Oregon- Brooks shined last season in Oregon averaging 15 pts per game and 5 assists with the help of Malik Hairson in the backcourt. Now that Hairston has another year of experience and the same for Odia, Brooks' assists will only increase. Derek Raivio, Gonzaga- Gonzaga will be a dangerous team this year, and Raivio also had one heck of a season last year statistically as a sophomore(13 pts, 4 assists, 1 steal per game). He also has Player of the Year canidate Adam Morrison along side.</div> First of all, gotta give you props for all of these people . Next I didn't think you would do it. Third some are SG's. Horner is nice, but not that nice, Brooks are you kidding me, Shakur can own him any day, and I thought Mardy Collins was a top SG prospect for the NBA. And the key words in your last post was: <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I'd rather have all these guys over Shakur IMHO!</div> That's your opinion, it's not the truth. Also get back to me when Rondo gets more minutes than Rondo. I also see that VC finally sort of back me up on something, Horner give me break.
Okay, I'll take Rondo off the list and there are still 10 PG's I'd rather have over Shakur. Actually, Collins is a combo guard that mainly plays PG and that's mainly where he will play this upcoming season. Again, I don't care if Horner is a SG, I'd put him at PG over Shakur anyday of the week.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting UKOwnstheSEC:</div><div class="quote_post">Okay, I'll take Rondo off the list and there are still 10 PG's I'd rather have over Shakur. Actually, Collins is a combo guard that mainly plays PG and that's mainly where he will play this upcoming season. Again, I don't care if Horner is a SG, I'd put him at PG over Shakur anyday of the week.</div> <div class="quote_poster">Quoting J_Ray:</div><div class="quote_post">I also see that VC finally sort of back me up on something, Horner give me break.</div> What's your obsession of Voodoo? Does it really matter if he agrees or disagrees with you?
How about Nick Fazekas??? Noone mentioned him and he had an impressive year last year. I mean, he is underrated and isn't noticed because he plays on Nevada.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Mr.Wade:</div><div class="quote_post">How about Nick Fazekas??? Noone mentioned him and he had an impressive year last year. I mean, he is underrated and isn't noticed because he plays on Nevada.</div> Nick Fazekas had one of the better seasons that I have seen last year but like you said he will probably go unnoticed this year because he is in Nevada and the lack of a decent team in the WAC (besides UTEP and Nevada). If he duplicates his sucess he has a shot at somebody's third team if you ask me.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Mr.Wade:</div><div class="quote_post">Nick Fazekas had one of the better seasons that I have seen last year but like you said he will probably go unnoticed this year because he is in Nevada and the lack of a decent team in the WAC (besides UTEP and Nevada). If he duplicates his sucess he has a shot at somebody's third team if you ask me.</div> I actually listed a player from his conference, Paul Millsap, as a pick for the All-American Third Team. So I personally didn't look over the guy when I did my list. I just didn't name Fazekas because I felt like Millsap and Grier were much better basketball players. It had nothing to do with the school he attended. As for Nevada, they get just as much, if not more, exposure as many of the school that the players on my All-American teams play for (such as Louisianna Tech, Minnesota, and Temple). Just because they're a mid-major, it doesn't mean that no one notices them. They're in that class with Gonzaga, Temple, Utah, and even Southern Illinois of teams that get their fair share of media recognition despite being in small conferences.
