<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The Lakers have held preliminary talks with the Washington Wizards about a possible trade involving Caron Butler and former No. 1 overall pick Kwame Brown, team and league sources confirmed Tuesday. Such a deal was just one of several scenarios the Lakers have discussed, according to a source, and the Wizards reportedly have been contacted by seven teams about Brown, including the New York Knicks and Indiana Pacers. Butler, who averaged 21.9 points with Lamar Odom out at the end of last season, is frequent fodder for trade speculation. He will be a free agent after the 2005-06 season and is one of four small forwards under contract to the Lakers. "We don't comment on rumors or speculation," Lakers general manager Mitch Kupchak said. The Butler-for-Brown deal was first reported Tuesday by the Philadelphia Inquirer. Brown, the first high school player drafted No. 1 overall, hit a nadir in May, when he skipped two workouts and was suspended for the remainder of the season. The Wizards went on to win their first playoff series in 23 years without him. Although Brown averaged only 7.7 points and 5.5 rebounds during four trying seasons with the Wizards, the Lakers are in need of frontcourt help and share the belief of many around the NBA that Brown could blossom as a player once he leaves Washington. The Lakers have decisions to make about exercising an option to bring back 37-year-old center Vlade Divac and taking advantage of a luxury-tax amnesty provision to the new collective-bargaining agreement that would allow them to waive forward Brian Grant. That could leave the Lakers with Chris Mihm, Slava Medvedenko, Brian Cook, Ronny Turiaf and 17-year-old rookie Andrew Bynum as their only big men heading into next season. Meanwhile, after watching free-agent guard Larry Hughes leave for a five-year, $65 million deal with Cleveland, the Wizards could turn to Butler as Hughes' replacement. Butler has experimented with playing both guard positions in the NBA. Brown, 23, is a restricted free agent, allowing the Wizards to match any offer he receives. The 6-foot-11, 243-pound forward turned down a four-year, $30 million extension before the start of the season in October. If Brown does come to the Lakers, it would be through a sign-and-trade deal involving Butler ($2.448 million) and at least one other player. The Lakers and Wizards would have to find a way to swap the approximate equivalent in player salaries. Brown started out in Washington as Michael Jordan's project, with the Wizards president of basketball operations taking him out of his Brunswick, Ga., high school with the No. 1 pick in the 2001 draft, ahead of Tyson Chandler, Pau Gasol and Eddy Curry. Brown was subject to some of Jordan's harshest criticism during his rookie season after Jordan came out of retirement to play for the Wizards. The Lakers would have to decide if Kobe Bryant's demanding style would cause similar problems for Brown. The Lakers also would have to question if Brown, to this point one of the NBA's biggest draft busts, is the player they want around Bynum. Only two weeks ago, the Lakers used their first lottery pick in a decade on the 17-year-old high school center.</div> Source
I'm all for the Caron for Brown trade, I watched Brown in Washington before I moved last year, he has all the potential in the world, he just never had a coach that trusted him. Phil Jackson is a good coach, he will learn under Phil. Look at the past history with Washington big men, they all explode after they leave Washington...Kwame is not done, trust me.
I don't think its a good idea. Brown? We can do a hell of a lot more with Butler or at least get a better deal for Butler. He's already shown us he can step it up and perform, just wait until next year.
Kwame=Chris Washburn <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Kobe 8 Ball:</div><div class="quote_post">I'm all for the Caron for Brown trade, I watched Brown in Washington before I moved last year, he has all the potential in the world, he just never had a coach that trusted him. Phil Jackson is a good coach, he will learn under Phil. Look at the past history with Washington big men, they all explode after they leave Washington...Kwame is not done, trust me.</div> Kwame= 2006 Lottery for the Lakers
Gray area the trade could go both ways but it's too early to say what the lakers will be next season with kwame. i think odom and kwame might have a hard time co-existing. but i guess mitch was looking at long-term goals, but taking butler away from the lineup would be REALLY WRONG. in turn, they might take in daniels..but his performance last seaosn was not as good as butler's. i think phil jackson also talked with caron regarding being more of a ball-handler and a scottie pippen-like role next season, too bad it might not happen. (it could've brought scottie as an assistant). maybe that's why the lakers are interested in daniels
Odom is the ideal Pippen to Kobe, not Caron. I think the resigning of Luke Walton all but guarantees that Caron Butler will be shipped.
caron's a better ball handler--he could lose some weight though i think lamar's like scottie,caron's like ron harper. phil likes tall point guards, ron harper, brian shaw--next could be caron or daniels.
Caron is not a better ball handler than Lamar. Lamar has the abilities to play 4 positions on the floor -- PG, SG, SF, and PF -- Caron can play the 1 and the 2, that is it. Lamar was given the duties of handling the ball at times last year, not Caron. There is no way in hell that Caron is anywhere near the level that Lamar is ball handling.
Lamar Odom is a far superior ball handler than Caron Butler. Also Butler lost 15lbs already this summer at the request of PJax. The strategy was to test out Butler as the starting PG this year.
sorry but i read in article somewhere (i can't remember which one) that phil was talking to caron on PG..either way if the trade pushes through, they'll need daniels. i was hoping caron would be on the PG position, if he's traded it'll be chucky but he's not reliable at times..get daniels.
Remember the Lakers run the Triangle offense, so the PG doesn't necessarily handle the ball like a typical offense. Lamar Odom and Kobe Bryant will be initiating the offense, and Butler will be moved to PG more for defensive purposes. If he can lock down opposing PGs and stay in front of them by losing wait and getting quicker, he will be valuable to the success of the team. Chucky Atkins is definitely going to be traded sometime this season. Antonio Daniels is looking great right about now, and with the Heat spending a lot of money on Haslem, the Lakers should be his first and only option left. It's going to come down to how long and how much he wants. The Lakers want to give him a 2 year deal, maybe 3 with a team option in the final year. AD is looking for a 5 year deal, so they are still negotiating the terms.
although cleveland has a lot more money to offer, daniels said together with his agent that he likes the lakers lineup...cleveland is reported to be interested in daniels--having mcinnis as their PG won't assure anything. i just hope kwame and odom will get along..
I don't think Odom and Kwame should have any problems...Odom is a team first player, he likes to initiate things on offense, why would he not get along?
Am i the only one who thinks this trade is crazy for the Lakers? Caron has proven that he can put up great numbers and shouldn't be wasted on a lazy bust just waiting for a stupid team to sign him to a huge deal. Not only could the Lakers get a better player but they just drafted a future C and a future PF, if Kwame is still a project it will only slow their development and the Lakers will still have a hole in their roster for a few years. Why not trade Caron + filler for an S&T Swift or Abdur-Rahim?
Yeah personally I agree with you BJM, Rahim would do great on the lakers. He's a true post player that can go perimiter if needed. He would open up the floor for the perimiter players, and he's also a very classy individual with a team first attitude. Him instead of kwame would be better. Unfortunately i have heard NO talks including rahim and the lakers...and I live in portland and follow the blazers religiously so I would have heard somethin. Another thing, the lakers have nothing (short of Kobe or Phil) that the blazers would want. Meaning a sign and trade is almost a complete non option.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Run BJM:</div><div class="quote_post">Am i the only one who thinks this trade is crazy for the Lakers? Caron has proven that he can put up great numbers and shouldn't be wasted on a lazy bust just waiting for a stupid team to sign him to a huge deal. Not only could the Lakers get a better player but they just drafted a future C and a future PF, if Kwame is still a project it will only slow their development and the Lakers will still have a hole in their roster for a few years. Why not trade Caron + filler for an S&T Swift or Abdur-Rahim?</div> I was against this trade at first for a lot of the reasons you mentioned above. However, the Lakers are going to get Kwame Brown at a bargain price of $5.6 Million for 2 years, plus a 3rd year team option. He's only 23 years old and Phil Jackson has had a good track record of dealing with headcases. He did wonders with the late Bison Dele, and Dennis Rodman. Hopefully he can burn some incense and rid Kwame Brown of his evils. Another factor in trading Butler is the fact he's going to be expensive this upcoming summer. When players like Bobby Simmons, Larry Hughes, and Cuttino Mobley are cashing in on long, expensive contracts, Caron Butler is going to expect a similar raise. The Lakers will be in a desperate situation to overpay him, get low-balled in a S&T deal, or let him walk for nothing. Here's some food for thought, Mitch Kupchak's future is going to be in the hands of Kwame Brown panning out for the Lakers. I wonder how he's going to sleep at night with that hanging over his head.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post">I was against this trade at first for a lot of the reasons you mentioned above. However, the Lakers are going to get Kwame Brown at a bargain price of $5.6 Million for 2 years, plus a 3rd year team option. He's only 23 years old and Phil Jackson has had a good track record of dealing with headcases. He did wonders with the late Bison Dele, and Dennis Rodman. Hopefully he can burn some incense and rid Kwame Brown of his evils. Another factor in trading Butler is the fact he's going to be expensive this upcoming summer. When players like Bobby Simmons, Larry Hughes, and Cuttino Mobley are cashing in on long, expensive contracts, Caron Butler is going to expect a similar raise. The Lakers will be in a desperate situation to overpay him, get low-balled in a S&T deal, or let him walk for nothing. Here's some food for thought, Mitch Kupchak's future is going to be in the hands of Kwame Brown panning out for the Lakers. I wonder how he's going to sleep at night with that hanging over his head. </div> Trading Butler makes sense as he is very desirable but I dont think Kwame is a good fit. I dont think he is a headcase as much as that he has no skill and no where to go. He wont fill any need for you that Turiaf and Bynum dont already cover, he is more raw than either of them. I dont understand why the Lakers are pursuing someone to be a presence when their rookies are better than he is.
I think Kwame Brown does have skill, I'm just leary of his desire and competitive spirit. I read a lot of positives about Kwame during his draft workouts. He dominated Tyson Chandler in a one on one workout. Also I read his teammates respect him and feel he's going to be the superstar everyone expects him to be. That is encouraging and hopefully the Lakers are the recipients of Kwame breaking out. I've seen both Turiaf and Bynum live, and Bynum is going to take a few years before he's ready for the NBA. He's simply not strong enough to compete playing as a C or PF. Defensively, he's a liability, and he needs to improve on his conditioning. Ronny Turiaf is probably a half season to a year away from becoming an everyday starter, but I could see him thriving in a role off the bench. Adding Kwame Brown gives the Lakers some flexibility in the front court and another young, big body. Right now all the Lakers have on their frontline is Chris Mihm (skinny), Vlade Divac (old), Brian Grant (damaged goods), Ronny Turiaf and Andrew Bynum (not ready). Adding Kwame Brown will buy the Lakers some time to bring Bynum along the right way, instead of rushing him. It also allows the Lakers to slide Lamar Odom to his natural position, SF, so they can exploit the mis-matches he causes there. The Lakers have been actively shopping Caron Butler since the trade deadline last year, so I'm sure this is one of the Lakers better offers thus far. If you think about it, most people would have laughed at the thought of the Lakers being able to trade Butler for Kwame during last season. Right now Kwame's value is at an all time low because of his injury riddled season and his suspension during the playoffs. A future frontline of Lamar Odom 6'10, and two athletic 7 footers (Bynum and Kwame) if they can all live up to expectations could put the Lakers in a position to win more titles.
