http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/3737458 <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">No. 1 ? MICHAEL JORDAN This pick is a layup. Most go-to scorers tend to coast on defense to conserve energy for their ball-time responsibilities. Jordan was the rare exception whose unyielding defense allowed him to win ball games with clutch plays at either end of the court. Besides his transcendent talents, the X-factor in Jordan's success was his incredible competitive edge. MJ would practice with more intensity than most of his peers demonstrated during games. And if a team's superstar practiced with all his might, then the last scrub on the bench was motivated to do the same. The most amazing single basketball play that I've ever witnessed was performed by Michael Jordan: In October 1989, when I was coaching the Rockford Lightning in the Continental Basketball Association, I happened to be at the Deerfield Multiplex for Chicago Bulls' initial training camp session of the season. Since the Bulls were Rockford's NBA "affiliate," I had dibs on every draft choice and free agent who would eventually be cut by the Bulls. The player I was looking hardest at was Matt Brust, a 6-4 tough guy signed as camp fodder out of St. John's. Besides having incredible talent, Michael Jordan possessed intense competitiveness. (J.D. Cuban / Getty Images) For the first few days of any training camp, the protocol is traditional: The important veteran players cruise through the drills and scrimmages, while everybody else busts their hump from baseline to baseline. That's why, in an otherwise lukewarm scrimmage, Jordan came sashaying to the basket in a semi-break situation, casually gearing up to amuse the in-crowd with his first slam-bang dunk of the new season. But Brust, hustling like his pants were on fire, caught up with Jordan and proceeded to His Airness on his royal keister. BAM! Jordan went down and didn't move for a few moments. Suddenly the gym was hushed as the trainers scurried onto the court. The only sound was Jerry Krause choking on one of his breakfast donuts ... ... until Jordan finally climbed to his feet, shook off the ministrations of the trainers, and motioned for the scrimmage to resume. But the fearsome look in MJ's eyes foretold a revenge that would be both devastating and creative. On the very next sequence Jordan pilfered a careless pass and was once again headed hoopward-and there was Brust, chasing the ball and intent on a command performance. The first hint of trouble was when Jordan slowed down somewhat to allow Brust to catch him. Then, as before, Jordan elevated to the basket, palming the ball in his right hand. This time, just as Brust launched another audacious attack on Jordan's august person, MJ made a preemptive strike, smashing his left elbow into the rookie's forehead. Then, while still levitated, Jordan switched the ball to his left hand, reached around to the far side of the rim, and shivered the entire gym with a thunderous dunk. For Jordan, score two points and a KO. For Brust, a mild concussion and an early retirement.</div>
The first was an obvious pick but the rest are pobably up for debate...did Kobe deserve to be on that high?
I don't understand why Kobe's that high. Sure he's got three rings, but he was playing with one of the most dominant centers of all time. Not to mention be surrounded with a nice role player cast. The article praises him of all the skills that he has as a player at the age of 26. Well doesn't McGrady posess all those qualities as well? The only differences I see are that McGrady has advanced past the first round yet (which he will soon) while Kobe got three rings because he had a nice team for all those years.
Is anyone more dangerous than Kobe? Not in recent memory. There was a guy named Calvin Murphy and another named Rick Barry who could shoot and Pete Maravich was a wonder of nature. And though he was not a guard, before he got hurt no one could touch Bernard King. He was instant offense. (Not talking here about all around cus that would be Bird and Magic).
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Is anyone more dangerous than Kobe? Not in recent memory.</div> Yea his name was sumthin like...Jordan. Does that ring a bell?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Lamont:</div><div class="quote_post">The first was an obvious pick but the rest are pobably up for debate...did Kobe deserve to be on that high?</div> Im saying what I said in the Lakers board... Not trying to stir anything up here, but what makes Kobe better than Mcgrady, and Allen Iverson aside from the rings he won by Shaquille?s side. Give Mcgrady Shaquille and say they win the three titles and Kobe does not would Mcgrady be number four on that list? In reality in there individual numbers Mcgrady actually has had a scoring title while Kobe has not, and Allen Iverson has many career accolades which would take me probably a whole paragraph to list. I think this list at this point is a bit bias do to the fact that Kobe does have these titles. I am not trying to take anything away from him. I am actually a Kobe fan, but until he rebuilds his reputation and wins something without Shaq (which I believe he very well may do) I will not consider him at any higher a level then Allen or Tracy. In fact right now I still do not think he has accomplished enough by himself to be considered better than Allen Iverson. Though not to sound like the only reason I posted here was to say that about Kobe. I honestly do not think any shooting guard in the game right now should be put on a list for the ?greatest all time? because in reality there legacies are not even beginning to be fulfilled yet. I mean putting Kobe as 4th all time at the age of 25 is like putting Penny in there after his third season in the league (look at what he is doing now). We need to wait to see what a player does in his whole career before we decide where he should be ranked in the history of the game. He may improve his case or hurt it. Only time will tell...
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Best Kept Secret:</div><div class="quote_post">Im saying what I said in the Lakers board... Not trying to stir anything up here, but what makes Kobe better than Mcgrady, and Allen Iverson aside from the rings he won by Shaquille?s side. Give Mcgrady Shaquille and say they win the three titles and Kobe does not would Mcgrady be number four on that list? In reality in there individual numbers Mcgrady actually has had a scoring title while Kobe has not, and Allen Iverson has many career accolades which would take me probably a whole paragraph to list. I think this list at this point is a bit bias do to the fact that Kobe does have these titles. I am not trying to take anything away from him. I am actually a Kobe fan, but until he rebuilds his reputation and wins something without Shaq (which I believe he very well may do) I will not consider him at any higher a level then Allen or Tracy. In fact right now I still do not think he has accomplished enough by himself to be considered better than Allen Iverson. Though not to sound like the only reason I posted here was to say that about Kobe. I honestly do not think any shooting guard in the game right now should be put on a list for the ?greatest all time? because in reality there legacies are not even beginning to be fulfilled yet. I mean putting Kobe as 4th all time at the age of 25 is like putting Penny in there after his third season in the league (look at what he is doing now). We need to wait to see what a player does in his whole career before we decide where he should be ranked in the history of the game. He may improve his case or hurt it. Only time will tell...</div> I agree, it's just to early to tell. Who knows kobe could go for the rest of his career winning rings or just be a good player on a bad team. Nobody knows.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I agree, it's just to early to tell. Who knows kobe could go for the rest of his career winning rings or just be a good player on a bad team. Nobody knows.</div>That`s how I see it too. Right now seeing Kobe at 4 I disagree with but at 26 Kobe has shown in the past that he has the ability to become one of the greatest SG`s ever to play the game.
Is Kobe that good? The answer is yes!! Kobe probably isn't a better team player than MJ, but the kid can do everything MJ could. People say "Well, Kobe had Shaq", but Bird had Mchale, Magic had Kareem, and Wilt had West. Even Jordan had Pippen, another hall of famer on his team. So that excuse doesn't mean anything to me. With the nonsense aside, Kobe is definitley in the top 5 as far as shooting guards ever. I personally think he's 2nd behind MJ. People want to take away his 3 rings, but how many stars in this league have 3 championships they can fall back on. Despite they're similar styles in game, what MJ and Kobe have most in common is they're competiveness. The only reason people refuse to put Kobe in MJ's class is for personal reasons, like his legal problems, or the cuz they think he's selfish. But we all know that Kobe is the man! Without Shaq will be hard, but I believe he'll win another ring before his career is over.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Rock4life:</div><div class="quote_post">Is Kobe that good? The answer is yes!! Kobe probably isn't a better team player than MJ, but the kid can do everything MJ could. People say "Well, Kobe had Shaq", but Bird had Mchale, Magic had Kareem, and Wilt had West. Even Jordan had Pippen, another hall of famer on his team. So that excuse doesn't mean anything to me. With the nonsense aside, Kobe is definitley in the top 5 as far as shooting guards ever. I personally think he's 2nd behind MJ. People want to take away his 3 rings, but how many stars in this league have 3 championships they can fall back on. Despite they're similar styles in game, what MJ and Kobe have most in common is they're competiveness. The only reason people refuse to put Kobe in MJ's class is for personal reasons, like his legal problems, or the cuz they think he's selfish. But we all know that Kobe is the man! Without Shaq will be hard, but I believe he'll win another ring before his career is over.</div> No Shaq had Kobe, you see Kobe was Shaq's sidekick just like pipen was to Jordan. So please if you will, compare Kobe to Pippen instead...
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Best Kept Secret:</div><div class="quote_post">Im saying what I said in the Lakers board... Not trying to stir anything up here, but what makes Kobe better than Mcgrady, and Allen Iverson aside from the rings he won by Shaquille?s side. Give Mcgrady Shaquille and say they win the three titles and Kobe does not would Mcgrady be number four on that list? In reality in there individual numbers Mcgrady actually has had a scoring title while Kobe has not, and Allen Iverson has many career accolades which would take me probably a whole paragraph to list. I think this list at this point is a bit bias do to the fact that Kobe does have these titles. I am not trying to take anything away from him. I am actually a Kobe fan, but until he rebuilds his reputation and wins something without Shaq (which I believe he very well may do) I will not consider him at any higher a level then Allen or Tracy. In fact right now I still do not think he has accomplished enough by himself to be considered better than Allen Iverson. Though not to sound like the only reason I posted here was to say that about Kobe. I honestly do not think any shooting guard in the game right now should be put on a list for the ?greatest all time? because in reality there legacies are not even beginning to be fulfilled yet. I mean putting Kobe as 4th all time at the age of 25 is like putting Penny in there after his third season in the league (look at what he is doing now). We need to wait to see what a player does in his whole career before we decide where he should be ranked in the history of the game. He may improve his case or hurt it. Only time will tell...</div> Kobe almost won that Scoring Title in 2002-2003. He also went for 9+ games of 40+ points, and like 12 of 35+. Kobe killed that season and was robbed of the MVP. You want personal accolades? Oh my... Slam Dunk Champion, ASG MVP, Runner-Up MVP twice or so, Highest point scorer in Rookie Game (31 Points), 9 Straight Three-pointers in one game... RECORD... 12 Threes in a game... RECORD. Youngest player to start a game, youngest in ASG, and much more. Need I go on? Kobe is at least two levels above the rest, bro. Nobody is as clutch as him, and he can take over and score anytime he wants to. I agree with the second part, only time will tell what happens next. But at the end, I really do believe Kobe will be able to challenge MJ for no. 1.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Lamont:</div><div class="quote_post">No Shaq had Kobe, you see Kobe was Shaq's sidekick just like pipen was to Jordan. So please if you will, compare Kobe to Pippen instead...</div> You have got to be kidding me. Shaq didn't win SQUAT with Penny back in Orlando! the point is, Shaq NEEDED Kobe as much as Kobe needed Shaq. Your point is totally off-point. Kobe, Shaq, MJ, and Pippen are all HOF material, so I see no reason as to why the circumstances are different.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting RJ 21:</div><div class="quote_post">You have got to be kidding me. Shaq didn't win SQUAT with Penny back in Orlando</div> Really, I guess entering the Nba finals in only his 3rd year was SQUAT? "Ya but he got swept" Shaq had the misfortune of playing against Hakeem in his prime, while he was still developing...
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting RJ 21:</div><div class="quote_post">Wow, Kobe got the the finals his fourth and won! *gasp*</div> Ya "Kobe" won the championship... shaq's stats from that first championship year: 29.7ppg 13.6rpg 3.8 apg 3.03bpg Kobe's: 22.5ppg 6.3rpg 4.9apg .94 bpg Tell me who lead that team to the championship...
I totally agree with RJ 21 and Rock4life , i dont understand why ppl are trying to "take" away Kobes rings from him?Why you guys (kobe haters/Mcgrady lovers or whatever) dont "take" away Oneals rings ... ?Becoes he didnt have this rape case ?I dont understand you guys..same thing is to "take" away Pippens rings becoes MJ won MVP-s and say that Pippen wasnt great player and if MJ would have Malone he would won those 6 rings too.(or some other 90's star).I am getting it like this:Kobe is not worth to be second greatest SG becoes he was not the main guy in 2000-2002 finals and every guy in nba can win 3rings with Oneal :/.Lets see how many rings Wade wins with Oneal (max 1 becoes he is not that great player like Kobe is Still he is one of the bests)
If you guys think Pippen is the 2nd best SF of all time (which many do on the best SFs thread) you should have no problem with Kobe being 4th. Shaqs never done a damn thing without a top 3 SG playing with him and Kobe never did anything without a dominant big. Neither won without PJax, theres no use arguing this.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Lamont:</div><div class="quote_post">Ya "Kobe" won the championship... shaq's stats from that first championship year: 29.7ppg 13.6rpg 3.8 apg 3.03bpg Kobe's: 22.5ppg 6.3rpg 4.9apg .94 bpg Tell me who lead that team to the championship...</div> I didn't say Kobe <u>led</u> the team or won the championship by hmiself now did I? I acknowledged in my earlier post, as a matter of fact, that Kobe needed Shaq and Shaq needed Kobe. And how about stats for the last Championship, huh? 2002-2003 Championship Season: Kobe: 30 PPG, 6 APG, 7 RPG, .82 BPG, 2.21 SPG Shaq: 27.5 PPG, 3 APG, 11 RPG, 2.4 BPG, .57 SPG Here's a direct view: <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> 2002-2003 Lakers Regular Statistics PLAYER AVERAGES REBOUNDS Player G GS MPG FG% 3p% FT% OFF DEF TOT APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG Kobe Bryant 82 82 41.5 .451 .383 .843 1.30 5.60 6.90 5.9 2.21 .82 3.51 2.70 30.0 Shaquille O'Neal 67 66 37.8 .574 .000 .622 3.90 7.20 11.10 3.1 .57 2.37 2.93 3.40 27. </div> End of discussion.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Lamont:</div><div class="quote_post">No Shaq had Kobe, you see Kobe was Shaq's sidekick just like pipen was to Jordan. So please if you will, compare Kobe to Pippen instead...</div> Not exactly, when the game was on the line, even with Shaq, Kobe was the Lakers best player. Whenever the Lakers needed somebody to bail them out, Kobe came through.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting RJ 21:</div><div class="quote_post">You have got to be kidding me. Shaq didn't win SQUAT with Penny back in Orlando! the point is, Shaq NEEDED Kobe as much as Kobe needed Shaq. Your point is totally off-point. Kobe, Shaq, MJ, and Pippen are all HOF material, so I see no reason as to why the circumstances are different. </div> If you put Shaq on the same Laker roster as last year, he would've done way better leading the Lakers than Kobe did. PG - Chucky Atkins SG - Caron Butler SF - Lamar Odom PF - Brian Grant C - Shaquille O'Neal. While they both wouldn't have won championships without eachother, it's a fact Kobe needed Shaq more than Shaq needed Kobe.
