<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">truth of the matter is Iverson wouldn't have won wit shaq unless they were together in the 2004-2005 season..das when iverson really became a team player...as far as t-mac he wants to be top dawg right along with kobe so don't give me that BS..overall Kobe>Tmac & Iverson</div> Ever try looking at the players A.I had around him for most of his career? Then you would know why most of times he would be selfish with the ball. Take this roster as an example: C- Mutumbo PF- Hill SF- Lynch SG- Iverson PG- Snow So put your self in Iverson shoes for a second, and just think about this. Who in the starting five can you consitently rely on to give you points when the defense gets your number? If you answered that correctly you would know why Iverson at times had no choice but to force the action.
I'm going to say a few things that will basically stop the discussion and anyone who say's anything about Kobe will have the facts written in this thread. Shaq won nothing in Orlando. Shaq won nothing when he came to LA. Shaq started to win when Kobe became a starter. Without Kobe's clutch play, Shaq would have no rings still. T-Mac has Yao now and AI has C-Webb now. Sure they are not as much compared to Shaq, but the fact is they still haven't made much of a difference with the addition of premier big men. In Miami, Shaq has won nothing. Shaq only won, when Kobe became a star.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Best Kept Secret:</div><div class="quote_post">Im saying what I said in the Lakers board... Not trying to stir anything up here, but what makes Kobe better than Mcgrady, and Allen Iverson aside from the rings he won by Shaquille?s side. Give Mcgrady Shaquille and say they win the three titles and Kobe does not would Mcgrady be number four on that list? In reality in there individual numbers Mcgrady actually has had a scoring title while Kobe has not, and Allen Iverson has many career accolades which would take me probably a whole paragraph to list. I think this list at this point is a bit bias do to the fact that Kobe does have these titles. I am not trying to take anything away from him. I am actually a Kobe fan, but until he rebuilds his reputation and wins something without Shaq (which I believe he very well may do) I will not consider him at any higher a level then Allen or Tracy. In fact right now I still do not think he has accomplished enough by himself to be considered better than Allen Iverson. Though not to sound like the only reason I posted here was to say that about Kobe. I honestly do not think any shooting guard in the game right now should be put on a list for the ?greatest all time? because in reality there legacies are not even beginning to be fulfilled yet. I mean putting Kobe as 4th all time at the age of 25 is like putting Penny in there after his third season in the league (look at what he is doing now). We need to wait to see what a player does in his whole career before we decide where he should be ranked in the history of the game. He may improve his case or hurt it. Only time will tell...</div> A lot of people got mad at the NBA for doing this when Shaq was listed as one of the 50 greatest players of all time, in only his 4th year in the league.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Laker_fan:</div><div class="quote_post">I'm going to say a few things that will basically stop the discussion and anyone who say's anything about Kobe will have the facts written in this thread. Shaq won nothing in Orlando. Shaq won nothing when he came to LA. Shaq started to win when Kobe became a starter. Without Kobe's clutch play, Shaq would have no rings still. T-Mac has Yao now and AI has C-Webb now. Sure they are not as much compared to Shaq, but the fact is they still haven't made much of a difference with the addition of premier big men. In Miami, Shaq has won nothing. Shaq only won, when Kobe became a star.</div> Don't agree, you generalized too broadly. In Orlando Shaq was young, and what do young players like do? Dunk, score, show off athleticism (think iguodala, j. smith etc.) But shaq was developing his game. As he got older he beefed up, learned more moves and upped his arsenal. Shaq is smarter than Kobe. As a basketball player, mind you. Do any of you remember what Wilt did when he went to the Lakers and his scoring average plummeted? He sacrificed his game and stats for the sake of the team. Shaq did the same damn thing when he came to the big MIA. Everybody expected him to come to the East and score 35 a game. Kobe, as well as T-Mac have failed to realize that as players. Jordan realized this, yea, his still got his 35 in, but that was almost necessary to win. And as for the people bringing AI in the discussion. He's in the top 3 in the league as far as unstoppable-ness (Horry once said in an interview that if he's on fire the only thing you can do is hope he misses). But other than that he's one of the hardest players to play with. Look at all the "pippens" he's gone through..
