<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Although he is considered a shooting guard, the Sonics attempted to return him last season to point guard, where he starred at Division II Shaw University. With Daniels gone and the Denver Nuggets a potential suitor for his services, Murray has seen his value increase. A year ago, he earned roughly $700,000, but league sources say he's seeking a deal comparable to what Daniels received from the Wizards. The Sonics are believed to have extended a three-year proposal with an average salary between $2 million and $3 million. Two years ago, Daniels signed a cost-efficient contract that paid him $2.2 million last season. If Murray receives a better offer from another team, Seattle will likely match it and retain him. </div> Seattle Times. Looks like we'll do whatever it takes to keep Flip in the green 'n gold
I read this earlier. To be honest, I'm warming to the idea of Flip stepping into AD's role as the third guard in the rotation. I don't think the question marks over his ability to play the point for long periods are relevant, for as Sund mentioned later in that article, next season we probably won't need someone to share the point guard spot with Luke, rather just someone to spell him. Obviously you'd still like some insurance, but it isn't as important right now and we can just look at point guards on the market after the bigger fish fall into place (your Blakes, Eisleys et al). I think the offer mooted is a fair one - hell I would even extend it to maybe 3/12. However I wouldn't go past three seasons, as for all his talent, he's only really put together half a season of really good basketball. If a team like Denver wants to use their whole MLE on him, then I say good luck Flip and farewell, but I can't see that happening. I wouldn't match anything past 15 mill, unless Shiek held a knife to my throat (which he probably would). It seems management is confident we'll see more of the 03/04 Flip in Bobby's uptempo offense, and less of the 04/05 model.
Flip is the most underrated player in free agency, i dont think he will go back to the Sonics because he wants to start and I've heard Ray Allen doesn't want Flip taking away minutes from him. I think the Nuggets or Bobcats will pick him up.
The reason that I was against giving BGJ and AD a long lucrative contract is because of their age. Flip on the other hand will be only 26 at the end of the month. Everyone can have reservations about Flip but the bottom line is that he's always produced when he has been given extended minutes. You can't show what you can do from the bench, so "Sir Dez's" assessment that he has only played well for a half of a season seems to be a bit misleading. The Sonics know better than everyone how talented Flip is. Why do you think that the Nuggets have gone on the record as saying that he is their primary free agent target? B/c George Karl had Flip in Milwaukee. The kid deserves to have some financial stability and I hope that he can get an offer that exceeds his market value right now. It will pay much dividends down the road to keep him locked up for some time. Flip can play the point and Luke still isn't capable of manning the point for 40 minutes a game. Bob Weiss will not play the same games that Nate did w/ Flip and I'm sure that Flip would welcome an opportunity to remind Seattle fans what he can do. Rick Sund is shrewd--lock him up for a 4 year 18 million dollar contract and watch you get an immediate return on your investment.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Iron Shiek:</div><div class="quote_post">You can't show what you can do from the bench, so "Sir Dez's" assessment that he has only played well for a half of a season seems to be a bit misleading.</div> That's ridiculous and contradictory since Flip will still be coming off the bench if we sign him.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Iron Shiek:</div><div class="quote_post">The reason that I was against giving BGJ and AD a long lucrative contract is because of their age. Flip on the other hand will be only 26 at the end of the month. Everyone can have reservations about Flip but the bottom line is that he's always produced when he has been given extended minutes. You can't show what you can do from the bench, so "Sir Dez's" assessment that he has only played well for a half of a season seems to be a bit misleading.</div> Thanks for that pearl of wisdom, "Iron Shiek". I know that circumstances surrounding Flip's playing time the last season and a half have been very inconsistant and they haven't necessarily been his fault. But we're not paying for the Flip who put up numbers when the team was turned over to him when Ray was out, we're paying for the Flip that is going to have to come off the bench and spot both guard spots, without trying to take over a game and without needing a lot of minutes to get himself going. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The Sonics know better than everyone how talented Flip is. Why do you think that the Nuggets have gone on the record as saying that he is their primary free agent target?</div> I haven't heard that one, but I would harness a guess that it's because they don't have a two guard, and they also don't have a caproom. We have Ray on a max contract. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">B/c George Karl had Flip in Milwaukee. The kid deserves to have some financial stability and I hope that he can get an offer that exceeds his market value right now. It will pay much dividends down the road to keep him locked up for some time.</div> 12 million isn't financial stability? Geez. I like Flip, and would like to see him back. However this isn't a situation where he's getting starter's minutes and shots. We're paying him to be a bench guy who needs to consistently give us something in a bench role. He hasn't shown this ability yet, and in fairness that's probably not his fault, but I wouldn't give him anything more than three years. Throw a player option in after two if he proves he's worth more.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Casual:</div><div class="quote_post">That's ridiculous and contradictory since Flip will still be coming off the bench if we sign him.</div> Flip, in my opinion, played some of his best ball in 2003-2004 when he was coming off of the bench during the Sonics last minute push for the playoffs. That was why I was so optimistic about what he was going to do going into the 2004-2005 season. I think you misunderstood what I was getting at earlier. No one looks good getting DNP-CD's. The Sonics management is hurting Flip's market value by saying that they are willing to match all of the offers that he'll be tenured. Teams don't want their money in limbo for 7 days so they may not want to offer Flip anything if they know the Supes will be willing to match. Hence, Seattle will get Flip back at a discount price--especially if it is only a qualifying offer. Flip probably wouldn't take a qualifying offer anyway considering that he has been making the league minimum (for a third year player) the past three years. Very shrewd move by Sund and company. Someone needs to follow Rick Sund around and write the book Money Ball II. San Antonio does the small market model the best, but considering Seattle's lack of resources and Key Arena debt, we may be inching closer and closer to the World Champs in terms of efficient ways of spending a dollar. I completely understand your take on Flip, Nick (your name was in quotes b/c I can't keep up w/ the changes). I'm guessing that Rick has the same philosophy as you do. But I'm also guessing that Bob has the philosophy that I have about Flip and I don't think that he feels comfortable giving Luke and Ray a combined 80+ minutes a game either. I don't think that Flip is going to sign with Seattle, but I do think that it is in the best interest of Seattle to match the offer, just like I think it is in the best interest of Seattle to match the offer sheets of Damien Wilkins. Vlad's situation is a bit more complicated.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Iron Shiek:</div><div class="quote_post">(your name was in quotes b/c I can't keep up w/ the changes).</div> I know, just having some fun. Sir Desmond was my first ever username on here.
Interesting takes on this situation. Im curious as to why the none shieks havnet mentioned the fact that Flip when given minutes last year was absolutely atrocious alongside Ray Allen...and if he wasnt then Ray Allen wasnt involved. The fact of the matter is those 2 have shown nothing but the inability to play together. How can we invest something like 4 yrs 18 million dollars in a guy that we need to play alongside Ray Allen when we have been given every hint that they cant coexist?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Coolguy777:</div><div class="quote_post">How can we invest something like 4 yrs 18 million dollars in a guy that we need to play alongside Ray Allen when we have been given every hint that they cant coexist?</div> B/c Nate McMillan fostered the either/or Flip/Ray proposition and Nate is no longer our coach. There wouldn't be a chance in hell that Flip would resign in Seattle if Nate were still coaching--and I still think that Flip will sign an offer sheet somewhere else even though "The Weiss Man" is heading the ship (if at least he'd like to get away from Ray). But at the end of the day Seattle realizes that there isn't a combo guard that will come at a better price than Flip so I believe they will match the offer. Shaq and Kobe supposedly couldn't coexist and they won three championships together. Granted they played different positions, but when the egos are put aside, talented players can work effectively together. The question is can Bobby get Ray to swallow his pride and welcome the opportunity of playing with a guard that may take the ball out of his hands, periodically. Flip doesn't seem to have a problem with him, but then again Flip doesn't seem to have problems with any of the setbacks that he has been faced with during his basketball career. He just works his way through them.
Just joined this forum - glad to attempt to contribute, hopefully more bodies are wanted around here, anyways... Flip wanting AD money won't happen, no matter where he ends up. Well, let me clarify - he may get AD money but not 5 years worth. Someone might stretch to give him 4, but I'd be very suprised if it was at a full MLE level. Flip and his agent are attempting to pit team against team and start a bidding war - and Bonzi and Jaric being traded/signed already probably doesn't discourage any tug of war match that might occur. Meanwhile, the Sonics are putting the word out that they'll match any offer that slides across the table in attempts to discourage suitors from forcing them to bump their offer - and it usually works to a degree. The Supes want to keep him, I'm positive of that. Sonics brass has already began heralding RM as this offseason's diamond in the rough via KJR snipets, i.e. "we think with Weiss' more uptempo philosophy, we think Flip will be more like 03/04 Murray..." - in other words, get ready fans, think of this as a big aquisition and remain upbeat about the upcoming season. Not to say RM can be productive, I don't think he can perform any worse than last year...if given the mintues, and if he's back it looks like he will.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting M_Cage89:</div><div class="quote_post">Just joined this forum - glad to attempt to contribute, hopefully more bodies are wanted around here, anyways...</div> Absolutely, welcome aboard and hope you stick around. Nice to see some old school love for Michael Cage too. As for Flip, I get the feeling management wants to keep him too. Biggest fear right now is Denver not landing Jaric, as if they can't work out a sign and trade with LA, then they may throw an AD like deal at Flip, and I don't think we match that. Would love to get Nene off them, who seems a bit disgruntled at not getting a start, but I can't see it.
And just read Jaric and possibly Wilcox for Gooden is a real possibility. If Hughes and Jaric stay healthy, Cavs have one heck of a team, and the Nuggets may chase Flip hard.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting M_Cage89:</div><div class="quote_post"> Not to say RM can be productive, I don't think he can perform any worse than last year...if given the mintues, and if he's back it looks like he will.</div> Welcome to the fold, fam. If you are a fan who enjoys talking Sonics basketball all year round you have come to the right place. Hope you stick around for a while. I think that you'll find that last year's huddle after the games wasn't just limited to the players.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Iron Shiek:</div><div class="quote_post">B/c Nate McMillan fostered the either/or Flip/Ray proposition and Nate is no longer our coach. There wouldn't be a chance in hell that Flip would resign in Seattle if Nate were still coaching--and I still think that Flip will sign an offer sheet somewhere else even though "The Weiss Man" is heading the ship (if at least he'd like to get away from Ray). </div> so you still think flip will sign an offer sheet that We can match? Doesnt sound like much has changed... <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">But at the end of the day Seattle realizes that there isn't a combo guard that will come at a better price than Flip so I believe they will match the offer. Shaq and Kobe supposedly couldn't coexist and they won three championships together. Granted they played different positions, but when the egos are put aside, talented players can work effectively together. The question is can Bobby get Ray to swallow his pride and welcome the opportunity of playing with a guard that may take the ball out of his hands, periodically.</div> Kobe and shaq coexisted for a while but the analogy is 100% completely bogus. You pointed out some of the obvious yourself. Maybe they didnt get along but they didnt play the same position! Not to mention the fact they are Kobe Bryant and Shaq...not Flip Murray. Ill be honest im disappointed you would bring out such an ignorant point. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Flip doesn't seem to have a problem with him, but then again Flip doesn't seem to have problems with any of the setbacks that he has been faced with during his basketball career. He just works his way through them.</div> Whats it like in Flip Murray land Shiek?
To me, Ray can really earn his money and take his game to the next level if he can bring the team together this year, especially after the tumultuous off season we've had already. That means shelving some of his ego (and possible dislike for certain guys?) and helping them get the best out of what they have (read: Flip). Certainly Ray can see how a peaceful co-existence with Flip will make us a better team. Don't ask me how to do it, I'm not the one making 80 million
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Coolguy777:</div><div class="quote_post">Whats it like in Flip Murray land Shiek?</div> I don't know, I never made it there. On the way I got held hostage in Oklahoma by an unruly stalker.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Iron Shiek:</div><div class="quote_post">I don't know, I never made it there. On the way I got held hostage in Oklahoma by an unruly stalker.</div> You really think you gotta go through Oklahoma to get to Flip Murray land?
