What about Richard Hamilton? He was known as an awful defender just like Marbury, Crawford and Richardson and Larry Brown made him decent. Also, Brown said if you don't play defense, you won't play. When you factor that in, Marbury - who wants to play every minute of the game, will be motivated to play defense. Same thing applies for Crawford and Richardson. Brown, as KA said, is a defensive mastermind. He isn't regarded as the best defensive coach for anything.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Knicks Analyst:</div><div class="quote_post">So first he was average, now good? I thought he was average? I'm confused, Banks.</div> I mean average. That's a careless typing mistake. Developing into a good player is what he was then. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Ok, he turned (average) Billups into NBA-defensive 2nd team quality defender. That means he can't make raw Crawford into an average-solid defender? What about the quick Marbury? He can't turn out to be a solid defender with Brown's help? The same question applys to Richardson. Larry Brown is a defensive mastermind, he can mold them into defenders, just you wait and see.</div> Billups is a good defender, one of the best at PG in the NBA, but playing with good help defenders in Prince and the Wallaces inside, will help boost your credibility as a good defensive player. Not taking away anything from Billups, but being named to the 2nd team had alot to do with the players he was playing with and the defensive sucess of the team. Even though I consider him one of the best defensive PG's in the NBA, that doesn't say much because he wasn't even the best defensive PG on his team. Nonetheless, he was atleast 2 levels higher defensively (Pre-LB) than Marbury/Q/Crawford. On the other hand, everyone can be defenders, but their are different type of defenders. You have to understand that none of these players are good defensive players. They may possess tools to be just below average defensive players, but watching all of these players play, it seems unlikely. The best defensive player I can see is Marbury. He has the quickness and work ethic (knowing that he's never been on a winning team in his career) to do whatever it takes to be the best defender he can be. Q doesn't have the tools. He has slow mobility with his feet, and he just doesn't look like he wants to play defense. He's also stupid on defense too, because if you watched some Suns games last year, his man would be often left open on miss communication. Obviously this can be fixed, but someone who is not that quick on their feet in terms of mobility, especially at SG/SF, doesn't really have the tools to be average defenders. If you honestly think LB can turn these players to average defenders (I can understand Marbury) then why won't he start Ariza? LB loves swingmen who can defender, like McKie and Prince. Ariza is already a good defender, so under LB he can be a very good defender, right? Why not start him over those one of those 3 players? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I can see JYD or Ariza starting, but I feel like Isiah will push for LB to get those guys to work and get them to play some tougher D. I guess I have more faith in LB than you.</div> You do, but I don't think he'll let the team suffer early on in the season by starting all of those 3, who are defensive liabilities. As I said, if they improve during the season, you might see them start later close to the end of the year. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">What about Richard Hamilton? He was known as an awful defender just like Marbury, Crawford and Richardson and Larry Brown made him decent. Also, Brown said if you don't play defense, you won't play. When you factor that in, Marbury - who wants to play every minute of the game, will be motivated to play defense. Same thing applies for Crawford and Richardson. Brown, as KA said, is a defensive mastermind. He isn't regarded as the best defensive coach for anything.</div> Hamilton was not an "awful" defensive player Pre-LB. He was below average and right now he's just decent, like you said. Coming out of college in his rookie year, he wasn't very good at all on defense, but like many rookies, he progressed by each game. You could actually see him improving on D when MJ arrived and that continued anually. I understand you guys being optimistic, but LB can't turn awful defenders to average defenders. I doubt really any coach can. He will make you a notch better if you are willing to (which you will have to in order to play) . If you recently in Detroit, Prince, who cracked playing time because of his defensive skills Pre-LB, turned into good defender to a very good one. He went a level higher. Same with Billups, same with Rip. In Philly, Eric Snow went up a level higher when he arrived from Seattle. Under LB, you'll be better defenensively, that's a given, but he won't turn awful defenders to average defenders.
See now, I only somewhat disagree with Banks on his last point. Coaches don't make individual players into excellent defenders when there's nothing to work with. But systems make teams better defensively when they have the right pieces in place. And whether we realize it or not right now, LB's system has worked everywhere he's gone, and the pieces he has now are a great foundation. He will make that backcourt play D, and he will make that frontcourt help them, and that's the name of the game. I see a starting lineup after a nice long time in training camp, looking like this: 1. Jamal Crawford 2. Stephon Marbury 3. Trevor Ariza 4. Mike Sweetney 5. Jerome James Marbury's days at the point guard slot are officially over. He's just not playing there anymore. What's more, I think this lineup wins games, plenty of them. Probably in the neighborhood of 40+, once we see them click 10-15 games into the season. And yes, MrJ, I don't see LB just giving up on some games for the sake of chemistry, he's there to win, and he'll put whatever lineup on the floor that will do that. Q may have to sit some to start the season, but he will also come around into the system and we may see some displacement there. Jamal Crawford will be defending that perimeter far better than he has in the past, the very first time he hits the floor when the season begins. Not only that, he may be exercising an entirely new skill set altogether. One way or another, we'll be seeing a lot of him.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Banks:</div><div class="quote_post">I mean average. That's a careless typing mistake. Developing into a good player is what he was then. [quote name='banks'] Billups is a good defender, one of the best at PG in the NBA, but playing with good help defenders in Prince and the Wallaces inside, will help boost your credibility as a good defensive player. Not taking away anything from Billups, but being named to the 2nd team had alot to do with the players he was playing with and the defensive sucess of the team. Even though I consider him one of the best defensive PG's in the NBA, that doesn't say much because he wasn't even the best defensive PG on his team. Nonetheless, he was atleast 2 levels higher defensively (Pre-LB) than Marbury/Q/Crawford.</div> Ben Wallace helped, of course. Chauncey was getting to be quite good before the acquisition of Rasheed, and Prince was developing with him. Billups got better in the first half of the 03-04 season, even without Rasheed, I'll give you Big Ben, but Prince was still developing and 'Sheed hasn't reached town. And even if he was better pre-LB than those three, does that mean that they can't develop to being average? No, it means the chances of being great defenders is less. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> On the other hand, everyone can be defenders, but their are different type of defenders. You have to understand that none of these players are good defensive players. They may possess tools to be just below average defensive players, but watching all of these players play, it seems unlikely. The best defensive player I can see is Marbury. He has the quickness and work ethic (knowing that he's never been on a winning team in his career) to do whatever it takes to be the best defender he can be. </div> How often did you watch? Crawford has a damn good chance, he just needs to focus on it. His hands are quicker than Marbury's and he can make quick decisions. More importantly Crawford is not the type to take too many gambles on defense, something LB likes. LB can definitely make Crawford a good, pesky, defender. Marbury's work ethic enables him to be a good defender, he's alsovery quick - LB can work with him. If anyone can get through to these guys, it's Brown. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Q doesn't have the tools. He has slow mobility with his feet, and he just doesn't look like he wants to play defense. He's also stupid on defense too, because if you watched some Suns games last year, his man would be often left open on miss communication. Obviously this can be fixed, but someone who is not that quick on their feet in terms of mobility, especially at SG/SF, doesn't really have the tools to be average defenders.</div> His foot speed certainly isn't there, you're right. And he did look pretty stupid on defense, true. Larry will install a defense-based system, so Richardson can't be dumb or he won't get playing time - Richardson can straighten out in that regard. The slow feet, I know that can't change. But you can't say that slow footwork knocks out average defense, look at Shane Battier - in no way is he fast but he's smart and plays in a good defensive system. Q will be one notch below average, but Ariza off the bench makes up for that. Look, I'd rather Ariza start over Q, I just don't see it. I hope Larry starts Ariza, I just think that he will be under tremendous pressure from Isiah and Dolan to start Richardson. Keep in mind those are the starting line-ups that I just foresee, not that I want. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> If you honestly think LB can turn these players to average defenders (I can understand Marbury) then why won't he start Ariza? LB loves swingmen who can defender, like McKie and Prince. Ariza is already a good defender, so under LB he can be a very good defender, right? Why not start him over those one of those 3 players? As I said before, Isiah and Dolan will smother him with complaints. He may be forced to cave in to them. Remember: I want Ariza TO START. Remember that! I like him more than the next guy.
mo taylor is underrated. he is a good player who could be an all star if he was a couple inches taller
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting n-gezzy:</div><div class="quote_post">mo taylor is underrated. he is a good player who could be an all star if he was a couple inches taller</div> I disagree. He doesn't pass, play defense, and he's streaky. He sometimes makes stupid plays on offense, clogging up passing lanes not recognizing that the Knicks are running a screen and as a result he messes up. He definetly hasn't done much in our system and I don't see him doing much in the future either.
I changed my lineup: PG: Jamal Crawford SG: Stephon Marbury SF: Trevor Ariza PF: Malik Rose C: Jerome James
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">I changed my lineup: PG: Jamal Crawford SG: Stephon Marbury SF: Trevor Ariza PF: Malik Rose C: Jerome James</div> That's the spirit MrJ. Although I don't fully agree with Malik starting, atleast you don't have Crawford, Marbury and Q starting. I hope I persuaded the change of you're lineup
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Banks:</div><div class="quote_post">That's the spirit MrJ. Although I don't fully agree with Malik starting, atleast you don't have Crawford, Marbury and Q starting. I hope I persuaded the change of you're lineup </div> How many times have I said that I'd rather have Ariza start at the 3, but that I think Isiah will push Larry to start Q? I like Ariza just as much as MrJ, and I've loved his game for a damn long time, don't you get me wrong here, mate. I'm one of Ariza's biggest fans. I just don't see him starting, although I want him to start.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Knicks Analyst:</div><div class="quote_post">How many times have I said that I'd rather have Ariza start at the 3, but that I think Isiah will push Larry to start Q? I like Ariza just as much as MrJ, and I've loved his game for a damn long time, don't you get me wrong here, mate. I'm one of Ariza's biggest fans. I just don't see him starting, although I want him to start.[/b]</div> Yea so, what's your point? I understand that... EDIT: The rolleyes smilie was directed towards myself, not you.
I believe the best starting line, and Brown will use at the start of season: PG: Crawford SG: Marbury SF: Ariza PF: Sweetney C: James I think that NY will trade for another pg later in the season and I don't think that Q will start, because he really is a bad defender. He is slow and always tries to take charges.
