Man, I'm pretty confused about this. The rockets need a good point guard, an experienced floor general who's also athletic. Jason William fits the description perfectly. He's only 30 years old, runs the floor well, excellent quickness, a good shooter, a decent passer and a solid defender. The grizzlies are shopping him like mad, the greedy heat are trying to take everyone and is trying to get him as well. Why haven't I heard anything about the Rockets trying to trade for him?? He's less expensive and IMHO he's better than Damon Stoudamire. Can any of you guys give me some insights? It can't all be because of his attitude right?
I'm sure the Rockets are interested, but the Grizzlies would not want to help them get better. Both are going to be fighting for playoff spots next year, and the last thing the Grizzlies would want is helping out the Rockets. The Rockets already signed Stromile Swift away from the Grizzlies. I doubt Memphis wants to fill another one of Houston's needs at their expense.
Yeah true, good point there. I forgot that they're in the same conference trying to compete for da playoffs. But man, Grizzlies ain't gonna get far with any current trades talks with da heat, like eddie jones for james posey+jason williams? Do you think the grizzlies could have a greater future to tank one year, get those expiring contracts from the rockets, get a good lottery pick and sign some quality free agents next year? Haha, maybe I'm just being too greedy here... But man, what is the Rockets gonna do about their point guard position? Don't think I like Michael Finley or Latrell Spreewell...
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">But man, what is the Rockets gonna do about their point guard position? </div>Nothing. I don't see a need to either. We added Luther Head, whom we hope would be our future at point, through the draft. We have a strong rotation of Bob Sura, Mike James and David Wesley/ Tracy McGrady, especially if Sura can regain his form from when he first played in a Rockets uni.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Trip:</div><div class="quote_post">Nothing. I don't see a need to either. We added Luther Head, whom we hope would be our future at point, through the draft. We have a strong rotation of Bob Sura, Mike James and David Wesley/ Tracy McGrady, especially if Sura can regain his form from when he first played in a Rockets uni.</div> Our guard situation is definitley a problem. Luther Head is a rookie, he's going to struggle. With our guard rotation now, we really don't have a legit shooting guard. As you all know, I'm not a fan of Wesley. He plays good D, but his size is HUGE weakness. Sura has heart, but I dought he'll be playing by playoff time, he's always hurt. Mike James is made to be a back up, that's all I'm saying about that. Every team in the West is getting better, if we came back with basically the same guard rotation, then we'll be doomed. Team needs: - PG that can shoot, pass, and make good decisions. Jason Williams is talented, but his decision making down the stretch scares me. Stoudamire is a great choice, but I don't know his situation with Memphis. Earl Watson is a good defender, but when we need that crucial 3, we know who the defense is going to double off. Duhon is a young, and athletic defender but I don't know about his shooting plus he would be taking Luther Head's role. Gary Payton would be good. Not because he doesn't shoot 3's, but because his post game would fit nicely. If we utilize his game, which is in the post, he could be effective. Also he's a GREAT decision maker and leader. SG/SF- This scares me to death. This could be our season. With guards like Kobe, Richardson, Ginobli, Carmelo etc........ all we have to show for is 6'1 David Wesley. I hope Carol Dawson makes some moves
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Trip:</div><div class="quote_post">Nothing. I don't see a need to either. We added Luther Head, whom we hope would be our future at point, through the draft. We have a strong rotation of Bob Sura, Mike James and David Wesley/ Tracy McGrady, especially if Sura can regain his form from when he first played in a Rockets uni.</div> Our guard situation is definitley a problem. Luther Head is a rookie, he's going to struggle. With our guard rotation now, we really don't have a legit shooting guard. As you all know, I'm not a fan of Wesley. He plays good D, but his size is HUGE weakness. Sura has heart, but I dought he'll be playing by playoff time, he's always hurt. Mike James is made to be a back up, that's all I'm saying about that. Every team in the West is getting better, if we came back with basically the same guard rotation, then we'll be doomed. Team needs: - PG that can shoot, pass, and make good decisions. Jason Williams is talented, but his decision making down the stretch scares me. Stoudamire is a great choice, but I don't know his situation with Memphis. Earl Watson is a good defender, but when we need that crucial 3, we know who the defense is going to double off. Duhon is a young, and athletic defender but I don't know about his shooting plus he would be taking Luther Head's role. Gary Payton would be good. Not because he doesn't shoot 3's, but because his post game would fit nicely. If we utilize his game, which is in the post, he could be effective. Also he's a GREAT decision maker and leader. SG/SF- This scares me to death. This could be our season. With guards like Kobe, Richardson, Ginobli, Carmelo etc........ besides Tmac, all we have to show for is 6'1 David Wesley. I hope Carol Dawson makes some moves because we definitley have to get better.
Man, I don't want to start a long argument but what do you have against rookies? You make it sound like Head can only defend and thats what he's out there to do. You forget that he was a clutch player in college, can shoot the three, as well as being fast as hell. Getting Duhon wouldn't be taking Head's "role". What exactly is his role? However, I agree with you on one thing, the point position needs to be upgraded. Okay, back on topic- its not that Rockets aren't interested, its that we don't have enough money or salary cap to give him the amount of money that he wants. At this point in his career, he still has around two prime years left in him so its no surprise that he would want to take advantage and make us much money as possible instead of going to a winner for less.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AznxBaller:</div><div class="quote_post">Man, I don't want to start a long argument but what do you have against rookies? You make it sound like Head can only defend and thats what he's out there to do. You forget that he was a clutch player in college, can shoot the three, as well as being fast as hell. Getting Duhon wouldn't be taking Head's "role". What exactly is his role? .</div> You must have not watched summer league games. Head was a non factor the whole time. I'm not saying he's not good, but he is a "rookie" meaning that he needs time to grow in the system. It'll be harder for him because he's a PG, and his job is to run the team and not make mistakes. So I don't think he'll make a huge impact his first season. What he'll probably be out there for is pressuring the ball, steals, mainly defense. With that, why would you get Duhon. His role would be quite similar, because he isn't a 3pt shooter. I don't know bout you, but I just don't like 2 young guards that play the same role.
Yeah, jason williams would want more money, not just 1.8 mil/year...besides i bet he would be more happy going to the heat than the rockets cause the heat is a serious title contender...id rather get stoudamire cause he actually wants to come here as rockets are his number 1 choice
Jason Williams has been traded to Miami now anyway... http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ap-f...ov=ap&type=lgns
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Jason Williams has been traded to Miami now anyway... http://www.justbball.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41119</div> ...Good Job "D-Mac". You linked back to this page. LOL
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AznxBaller:</div><div class="quote_post">...Good Job "D-Mac". You linked back to this page. LOL</div> Whatever are you talking about?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Rock4life:</div><div class="quote_post">You must have not watched summer league games. Head was a non factor the whole time. I'm not saying he's not good, but he is a "rookie" meaning that he needs time to grow in the system. It'll be harder for him because he's a PG, and his job is to run the team and not make mistakes. So I don't think he'll make a huge impact his first season. What he'll probably be out there for is pressuring the ball, steals, mainly defense. With that, why would you get Duhon. His role would be quite similar, because he isn't a 3pt shooter. I don't know bout you, but I just don't like 2 young guards that play the same role.</div> Head was trying to be too much of a passer in the summer league, which leads the casual observer to think that he doesn't have much of an offensive game. However, we're talking about a player who led a team who went to the NCAA Finals in scoring. Head has legit range and is a great defender already. His size at 6-3 also makes him not so much of a tweener at either guard position, although it won't be clear what his real position is throughout his career. Also, if you're saying Duhon can't shoot, then you're wrong. I've already mentioned that Duhon had set a Bulls record by making 8 threes in one game. Duhon also shot close to 36% from beyond the arc, one percentage point below Stoudamire, and four above Payton.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Trip:</div><div class="quote_post">Head was trying to be too much of a passer in the summer league, which leads the casual observer to think that he doesn't have much of an offensive game. However, we're talking about a player who led a team who went to the NCAA Finals in scoring. Head has legit range and is a great defender already. His size at 6-3 also makes him not so much of a tweener at either guard position, although it won't be clear what his real position is throughout his career. Also, if you're saying Duhon can't shoot, then you're wrong. I've already mentioned that Duhon had set a Bulls record by making 8 threes in one game. Duhon also shot close to 36% from beyond the arc, one percentage point below Stoudamire, and four above Payton.</div> Well you left out something. While both Duhon shot 35% from 3's, and Stoudamire shot 37%, Stoudamire made 181 while Duhon only managed about half of that. Another thing you left out is Duhon 3pt% in the playoffs, 27% is horrific. Lastly, Duhon shoots 35% from the field as a whole, while Stoudamire shot 40% and took about 700 more shots. So my point is, HE ISN'T A GOOD SHOOTER. This debate might closed due to the fact Stoudamire might be signing with Memphis.
I don't know why you like to manipulate stats because Duhon shot 35.5% from three, not 35, and Stoudamire shot 36.9, not 37. If you rounded Stoudamire's up, then Duhon's could be rounded up to 36%. Also, Stoudamire shot 39% from the field. If you're rounding, then 39.2% would be 39. Ben Gordon shot horridly in the playoffs, as well, but I don't hear any criticism for him. For all Stoudamire did, he didn't even play in the playoffs for the past two seasons.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Trip:</div><div class="quote_post">I don't know why you like to manipulate stats because Duhon shot 35.5% from three, not 35, and Stoudamire shot 36.9, not 37. If you rounded Stoudamire's up, then Duhon's could be rounded up to 36%. Also, Stoudamire shot 39% from the field. If you're rounding, then 39.2% would be 39. </div> Sorry for the the percentage point. I'm suprised you never mentioned the amount of 3pt's Duhon made. Stoudamire made TWICE as many 3's as you're man Duhon and STILL shot a better percentage. What you also failed to mentioned is that Duhon shot around 35% from the field, and didn't even lead his team in shot attempts. Is that the mark of a good shooter? <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Trip:</div><div class="quote_post">Ben Gordon shot horridly in the playoffs, as well, but I don't hear any criticism for him. For all Stoudamire did, he didn't even play in the playoffs for the past two seasons.</div> What does Ben Gordon have to do with this? We're not talkin about gettin him. But for the record, Gordon was a ROOKIE, and probably the teams BEST PLAYER. The defense was key'd on stoppin him, unlike Duhon who's more like 4th of 5th option and still shot poorly (30% from the field, and 27% for the 3pt arc) . You are right about Stoudamire not making the playoffs, but in the times that he played, he shot WAY better (40% from the field, and 39% from the 3pt arc) than Duhon and actually played a significant role on the team. What's with this kid? For cryin out loud he averaged a pathetic 6pts last year. What about that says potential? If you guys don't like Stoudamire, or Payton, can you atleast have quality alternatives? Chris Duhon and Eric Watson both have a career avg. of 12pts a game COMBINED . Gary Payton avg that alone LAST YEAR.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Rock4life:</div><div class="quote_post">Sorry for the the percentage point. I'm suprised you never mentioned the amount of 3pt's Duhon made. Stoudamire made TWICE as many 3's as you're man Duhon and STILL shot a better percentage. What you also failed to mentioned is that Duhon shot around 35% from the field, and didn't even lead his team in shot attempts. Is that the mark of a good shooter?</div> Stoudamire (34.1) plays more minutets than Duhon (26.5). That might account to part of the reason why Stoudamire made more threes. Why are you bringing up that Duhon didn't lead his team in shot attempts. So now the level of skill is measured by how many times you shoot it? Is that the mark of a good shooter? Leading the team in shot attempts? There's no way I can argue that Duhon shot 35% from the field, but with McGrady and Yao getting double teams, it should leave Duhon wide open for shots. Stoudamire meanwhile seems more like a driver and slasher- not having the "mark of a good shooter". <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">What's with this kid? For cryin out loud he averaged a pathetic 6pts last year. What about that says potential? If you guys don't like Stoudamire, or Payton, can you atleast have quality alternatives? Chris Duhon and Eric Watson both have a career avg. of 12pts a game COMBINED . Gary Payton avg that alone LAST YEAR.</div> Again, both of those guys had a lot less minutes than Stoudamire. Plus, they aren't their teams first options so they don't get as much touches on the ball as Stoudamire does. You even stated above that Ben Gordon was the Bulls first option and if Duhon's their 4th option, of course he's not going to get too much shot attempts- leading to a low points per game. Averaging 33 minutes last year, Payton had 11.3 points. With 22.6 minutes, Watson had 7.7 points. Thats a little above ten minute's difference so it wouldn't be too hard for Watson to get four more points. You don't seem to grasp this concept. I won't even get into how you added Duhon and Watson's averages together (11.3 > 7.7 + 5.9?). I'm not going to discuss this much further, pretty offtopic.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AznxBaller:</div><div class="quote_post">. Why are you bringing up that Duhon didn't lead his team in shot attempts. .</div> Simply because he doesn't shoot a good percentage. If you don't take alot of shots, and you STILL shoot a horrible percent, then what makes you believe that with more shots he'll all of sudden become a good shooter. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting AznxBaller:</div><div class="quote_post"> I'm not going to discuss this much further, pretty offtopic.</div> You probably shouldn't discuss this. Next week you'll change you're position and act like you never said any of this.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Simply because he doesn't shoot a good percentage. If you don't take alot of shots, and you STILL shoot a horrible percent, then what makes you believe that with more shots he'll all of sudden become a good shooter.</div> What makes me believe he would be better? Because with more shots, you find your rhythm which allows you to shoot a better percentage. He's at least the fifth option on the team meaning he doesn't get a lot of shots off, on average eight maybe in almost 27 minutes. His role out there is to set teammates up and defend, not score. If he was in Houston, I would think that the offense would run much more fluently and it wouldn't matter if he can put up ten points every night because he would get other teammates to score more. Plus, like you said, he was a rookie last year so he would struggle . <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">You probably shouldn't discuss this. Next week you'll change you're position and act like you never said any of this.</div> First of all, I only changed my opinion on Finley because I didn't understand the Amnesty Clause at first. I didn't know the situation would end up like Mutumbo's where Dallas would be responsible for his contract. Secondly, why can't I change my opinion? I can learn new things and thus am entitled to alter to perception on things. People should be able to form new opinions or change old ones. Do you keep the same opinion on a topic forever? I just figured the Amnesty Clause out sooner or rather in a week or so. Besides, whats the point of debates and arguments? To learn new things or to "enlighten" yourself so to speak. Those that are stubborn are also ignorant.
AznxBaller basically covered everything so I'll sit it out, I don't have much access to JBB anyways to get into a lengthy debate. Rock4Life, I don't know why you'd choose to respond to only parts of the argument that you figure you could have a reason for. Can you not account for everything you said but then didn't respond to? These debates are very good for the board and knowledge of all posters, but I advise both of you to not take anything to heart and not get angry at each other and go after each other disagreeing the other on every topic. We're all more mature than that.
