It may sound like I'm a homer and that I just like Dwight because he was the guy the Magic picked but that isn't why I defend him in these type of arguments. I defend him because he is a great player with a huge upside and is an athletic freak. Emeka just barely put up better numbers then Howard as the first option in Charlotte where as Dwight was the 3rd option at the begining of the season. Steve Francis, Cuttino Mobley and Grant Hill were all given the ball when the game was on the line. Then Cuttino was traded and Dwight touched the ball a little bit more but not enough to where other teams were worried about him over Francis and Hill. Emeka Okafor was given every oppurtunity to score in Charlotte and had plays designed for him to score down low where as Howard had to score from offensive rebounds or the few times someone dished him the ball. Obviously, if you are the scorer on a team and are only scoring a few more points per game then a second option, that shows the difference between the two guys. Let's focus on Emeka Okafor's injury problem for a second. If you were running a team and you had to choose between Emeka and Dwight, why go with the older player who has experienced injuries throughout his career. Dwight is younger, has more potential and is injury free. He proved this when he started every game in his rookie year, something no high schooler has ever done. Another interesting stat that a lot people don't realize is Blocks Per Game. Emeka was supposed to be the better defender of the two and he only averaged .05 more BPG then Dwight Howard. Dwight also had more Steals Per Game and improved the Magic's interior defense greatly. People make it sound like Emeka is way better at defense then Dwight just because of Okafor's past but truthfully, the stats are similar in that category. Now to field goal percentage. Dwight Howard shoots 52% from the field while Okafor shoots 45%. It may not seem like a big difference but 52% is very impressive. Not only does he have only 3 less PPG then Emeka, he played three less minutes then him too. If Dwight played the same amount of time that Emeka did, I have a feeling he would be able to make two more baskets in three minutes. Another quick thing I would like to add is that Dwight has grown to 7'0" and is still growing. He is just out of high schools and before the draft, doctors were saying he could grow to as much as 7'2" by the time he his 20 or 21. I think this is huge news because he could be the next Kevin Garnett or switch between the center and power forward positions which is something Emeka can' do as effectivly. The stats are very similar and that fact that Dwight is younger and plays less minutes per game, I think that shows that Dwight is equal to Okafor if not slightly better. I'm sick of people saying that Okafor is better then Howard because of his college career because truthfully, Emeka may have more experience but he also has a injured back and nobody else to take away his touches.
Are you asking who's better now or who will have a better career? I think Emeka is better now, but Howard will be a better player in the future. Howard is younger, has more potential, and doesn't have back problems.
I like to look at the long run when comparing two players with this great of caliber to be players who you can market a team around. Okafor coming out of Uconn was the logical choice when we were going into the draft he was a Academic All American, arguable the biggest piece of the puzzle in Uconn?s run to win the final four. Only reason I say arguable is because of Ben Gordon. I personally think both will be great players Howard and Okafor. This season I felt Okafor was the more NBA ready player, but he in my opinion as a roof hanging over his head. There are two type of players in the league there are the good ones who when they reach a point just stop developing and remains at those statistics for the better part of there career thus I give you Okafor. I think he could probably be an 18 point 11 rebound guy for the better part of his career if he remains the main player for his team. Then you have Howard a player who will be good and has no point to were his development will stop. He can very well have a scoring average in the high twenties to low thirties during his prime. As well as 11 to 12 rebounds KG type numbers. I think comparing the two head to head in statistics is not entirely fair to either. I mean a lot would say that Okafor will be a better player then point to his statistics this season, and se that to support there case, but at the same time look at Howard?s statistics. Then compare it to other young power forwards/centers to enter the league. You will see he is not in that bad of shape either. However, at the same time there is a risk factor with Dwight a factor that I currently refer to as the Kwame factor. You never know how this guy will react after his first big payday. He is a high school player who came into the league and had success, but unlike a Okafor who you have seen is seriously committed to the game, and a proven winner at the highest level outside of basketball, outside of the NBA, in the continental United States. He has spent extra years thriving and refining his game. Which also makes him a bit more battle tested, and had more life experiences to reinforce his love of the game. I think that in the case of the Magic taking Okafor would not have been the best move they could have made. They are not a finals team with or without Okafor so they can afford to wait out and see how good a high schooler could become. They also did not want to watch Dwight turn into an Amare Stoudamire type player, and know they could have had that, but instead went with the safe choice. Well in the end of things. I think both will be great players in the future, and will take the position that Okafor is currently better, but Howard has the potential to be better in the future. Both were great picks for their respective organizations.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MiamiBalla12:</div><div class="quote_post">Are you asking who's better now or who will have a better career? I think Emeka is better now, but Howard will be a better player in the future. Howard is younger, has more potential, and doesn't have back problems.</div> I am comparing the two as if you were an NBA general manager and you had to choose one to build a team around.
I'd definately say Howard he has a lot more upside than Okafor, and can be a more dominant player in the future.
If I were to draft a "franchise" player, Howard without a doubt. However if the question is who's better right now, then it's Okafor hands down. I do want to argue that Okafor has it harder than Dwight Howard. Being the main player in your team does not always = better stats. Think about it, if you were playing the bobcats, the only person you really need to worry about is Okafor. Naturally this makes it alot harder on him to produce whereas Dwight has it WAY easy. He's got an amazing athlete in Francis who penetrates well (defense has to collapse on him), and two serious outside threats in Grant Hill and Mobley. This makes Howard the 4th focus for the opposing team on defense and thus he's got a relatively easy time. Don't get me wrong, Howard has more potential and a very good chance of being the better player, but Okafor clearly has Howard's numbers for at least another year or 2.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting SupraJames:</div><div class="quote_post">He's got an amazing athlete in Francis who penetrates well (defense has to collapse on him), and two serious outside threats in Grant Hill and Mobley.</div> Cuttino Mobley was traded after only 23 games so Howard wasn't the fourth option all year long. As for Grant Hill being a perimeter threat, he has no outside game at all. Last season he went 3-13 from long range so his outside is more his weakness. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting SupraJames:</div><div class="quote_post">This makes Howard the 4th focus for the opposing team on defense and thus he's got a relatively easy time.</div> You can also look at the fact that Howard had to score off offensive rebounds and had to work hard for his points while Okafor had them handed to him. The Magic had barely any plays that were designed for Howard to score so it is pretty impressive he put up similar numbers o Okafor, the main option on in Charlotte.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Swish15:</div><div class="quote_post">Cuttino Mobley was traded after only 23 games so Howard wasn't the fourth option all year long. As for Grant Hill being a perimeter threat, he has no outside game at all. Last season he went 3-13 from long range so his outside is more his weakness.</div> Ok, so Howard's the 3rd option for the most part of the season. He's still not nearly the focus of the opposing team. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Swish15:</div><div class="quote_post">You can also look at the fact that Howard had to score off offensive rebounds and had to work hard for his points while Okafor had them handed to him.</div> First of all, it is alot easier to score off offensive rebounds when you are not the main focus on offense. In Howard's case, Francis, Grant and, for the first 23 games, Mobley all shoot the ball leaving Howard guarded man to man. Most of the time when Francis penetrates, defense has to collapse on him leaving Howard wide open. What's so hard about putting back a miss all by yourself? Okafor on the other hand, had to work for his O-Rebs. It's alot harder to shoot the ball, miss, then get the board back all by yourself. I have no clue what you're talking about when you said "Okafor had them handed to him"... Just what does that mean? The man has to work for all his points and rebounds!! He is the anchor on offense AND defense whereas Howard's not anchoring anything. He's a 3rd option on offense and on defense he's got a nice help from Doug Christie (defensive specialist). Now I'm not trying to make Howard look like a scrub, cuz he's not, but honestly, he's got it way easier than Okafor.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting SupraJames:</div><div class="quote_post">Ok, so Howard's the 3rd option for the most part of the season. He's still not nearly the focus of the opposing team.</div> He isn't the focus of the other team because he is having to score behind Grant Hill and Steve Franics, two All-Star calibur players. Emeka Okafor is the main option on his team and had many plays that were designed for him to score. When you think of it that way, it is pathetic that a main scorer can't put up better numbers then a third option. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting SupraJames:</div><div class="quote_post">First of all, it is alot easier to score off offensive rebounds when you are not the main focus on offense.</div> So you're telling me it is easier to score off of other player's misses then when you have plays designed to get you the ball throughout the entire game? Wow, what a statement. Sure if you are the main focus on offense you get more attention but it is not easier to score. Let's take a plunge into some statistics for a second. Emeka Okafor averaged 13.7 shots per game while Dwight Howard averages 8.2 shots per game (a number that is somewhat inflated because he became more involved in the offense under Chris Jent). That's 5 more shots per game giving Emeka Okafor the chance to score 10 more points per game. With so many shots you would think Emeka's numbers would be so much better then Howard's but they really aren't. As the main focus on offense, your team gives you the ball and puts you into positions to score. When Dwight Howard was the main option on offense at the end of the season under coach Chris Jent, he averaged 17 PPG and 13 RPG, which are better numbers then Emeka put up as a main option. With that said, it is much easier to score as a main option then relying on other players to miss, grabbing the rebound, and then trying to score. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting SupraJames:</div><div class="quote_post">In Howard's case, Francis, Grant and, for the first 23 games, Mobley all shoot the ball leaving Howard guarded man to man. Most of the time when Francis penetrates, defense has to collapse on him leaving Howard wide open. What's so hard about putting back a miss all by yourself?</div> Sure Howard was being guarded man to man but it doesn't mean he got the ball. You would think it is common sense that he would get open shots in the paint but Steve Francis isn't the best point guard when it comes to distrubuting the ball. Majority of the time, Francis would either take the shot or dish the ball outside to the perimeter where someone like Cuttino Mobley or Hedo Turkoglu were waiting to shoot. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting SupraJames:</div><div class="quote_post">Okafor on the other hand, had to work for his O-Rebs. It's alot harder to shoot the ball, miss, then get the board back all by yourself.</div> You have got to be kidding me. You think that Emeka Okafor was grabbing his own offensive rebounds and scoring off of them? No. With all of the scrubs on the Bobcats, he had his share of missed shots to grab. It's not like Okafor is the only player on the court. Just because he is the best scorer on the Bobcats doesn't mean he is the only player that shoots. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting SupraJames:</div><div class="quote_post">I have no clue what you're talking about when you said "Okafor had them handed to him"... Just what does that mean?</div> Well when your coach is calling plays for you to score all througout the game it is easy to score. This goes back to the argument about what is easier, scoring by grabbing rebounds or scoring when your teamates are trying to set you up in scoring positons. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting SupraJames:</div><div class="quote_post">The man has to work for all his points and rebounds!! He is the anchor on offense AND defense whereas Howard's not anchoring anything.</div> Howard had to work harder for his points because his teamates weren't constantly trying to get him the ball. Howard played 10 more games then Emeka and still had 326 less shots. Emeka had all the oppurtunities he needed to score and still can't put up better numbers then Dwight. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting SupraJames:</div><div class="quote_post"> He's a 3rd option on offense and on defense he's got a nice help from Doug Christie (defensive specialist). Now I'm not trying to make Howard look like a scrub, cuz he's not, but honestly, he's got it way easier than Okafor.</div> Christie was injured and unhappy in Orlando so you can't say he got much help from him. DC only started 13 games in Orlando and has wanted out ever since the end of last season. Christie shouldn't even be mentioned in the debate because he wasn't in any way help to Howard.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Swish15:</div><div class="quote_post"> So you're telling me it is easier to score off of other player's misses then when you have plays designed to get you the ball throughout the entire game? Wow, what a statement. Sure if you are the main focus on offense you get more attention but it is not easier to score. Let's take a plunge into some statistics for a second. Emeka Okafor averaged 13.7 shots per game while Dwight Howard averages 8.2 shots per game (a number that is somewhat inflated because he became more involved in the offense under Chris Jent). That's 5 more shots per game giving Emeka Okafor the chance to score 10 more points per game. With so many shots you would think Emeka's numbers would be so much better then Howard's but they really aren't. As the main focus on offense, your team gives you the ball and puts you into positions to score. When Dwight Howard was the main option on offense at the end of the season under coach Chris Jent, he averaged 17 PPG and 13 RPG, which are better numbers then Emeka put up as a main option. With that said, it is much easier to score as a main option then relying on other players to miss, grabbing the rebound, and then trying to score.</div> I was using the same statistics for Howard in a different thread a few weeks back, and it is quite impressive. I didn't go in depth on the stats, but I'm pretty sure he didnt average 13 RPG under Jent, unless you're using PER 48/MIN stats. Either way, Emeka stillleads him in that category. He was most impressive under his time under Jent because that's when the Magic realize that he can score more efficently than Francis. He averaged nearly 17 PPG, 1.8 BPG and 10 RPG (below his season average though) on 12 FGA/G in April while making 55% of his shots. If that's any indication of anything, then there's no reason to believe he won't be a 17-18, 11, 2 (blocks) player next year, atleast. He has superstar in the making written all over him. Emeka has double double and defensive presence written all over him. His ceiling isn't high, but he will be a very productive player in the league. I see him as a 17-11/12-2+ 50% player for the most part of his career which is very very good, but Howard is reaching that level quickly and his ceiling isn't as low as Emeka's. Not to take anything away from Emeka, because he's an exceptional player, but I would take Dwight over him in a heartbeat.
Ok, first of all, Emeka (15pts/11reb) does have better numbers than Dwight (12/10)..... Dwight also has more Turnovers (2) than Emeka (1.7) despite, as you said, touching the ball way less and not being as big of a focus on offense as Emeka is. I'd say the only statistical edge Dwight has on Emeka is his FT%. I think we're having two different perspectives here. You're saying that it's alot harder for a player to score if he isn't the main option. This is true to some degree, but when your Point Guard chucks up 17 FGA and making only 42.3% of them, there's bound to be plenty of shots missed. Hedo and Mobley also shot relatively poor (43.2%/12.9FGA and 41.9%/11.7FGA) Grant Hill is the only main guy that shot well (a blistering 50.9%). I'm saying that when you are the only star player on the team that everyone focuses on, it's NOT easy to score. I mean seriously, have you taken a look at the Bobcats' roster? Frankly I don't know how Okafor managed to lead this team to an 18-win season as a brand new franchise, not to mention he's got chronic back pains and tremendous pressure as a franchise player. More minutes and plays running through you does not always equal better production. Let's not forget that Okafor was a rookie and already he had to play 35.6mpg every single night shooting 13.7FGA. That's tiring. Do you know how tough it is for a big man to play that many minutes for the whole season? The only C in the league that played more minutes than Okafor last year was Amare (36.1mpg). I'd say Okafor was pretty damn consistent and durable despite suffering that ankle injury midseason that sidelined him for 9 games. The pressure on Howard is nowhere near Emeka's. How about this, if Emeka's situation was flipped with Howard, do you think Dwight would do alot better than Emeka would've? I seriously don't think so. Howard would struggle big time and probably burn out midseason.
Dwight had by far a more amazing season than Okafor, based on what he did that no other HS player has done(or a lot of rookies for that matter). He set the standard from what teams will be looking for in HS bigmen from now on. -Started in all 82 games, no HS player has ever done that. Only 11 players in the ENTIRE NBA did that this year. -One of only eight players in the NBA to average a double-double and the first rookie (along with Charlotte?s Emeka Okafor) to average a double-double since Shaquille O?Neal and Alonzo Mourning accomplished the feat in 1992-93. First HS player to get a double double. -Became the youngest player in NBA history with 20-plus boards in a game on Dec. 1 vs. Toronto -Also had 20 rebounds on Feb. 10 vs. Atlanta, becoming the first rookie since Tim Duncan in 1997-98 with multiple 20-plus rebound games in a rookie season, and on Mar. 9 @ Toronto(he had 3 20+ rebounding games) -Became first NBA rookie since 1991-92 (Shaquille O?Neal, 1992-93, 12 games) to record 10-plus rebounds in first nine regular season games of his career. Bold are things that Okafor had the chance to do but didn't. It's impossible to really compare them, but Dwight has the most upside and I believe that he will be a star in this league and we will look back at this comparison in 3 or 4 years and laugh at ourselves for even comparing these 2. (Okafor will still be a very good player, just not at Dwight's level) It doesn't matter whether the positions were flopped. Dwight wouldn't have made an immediate impact on the Bobcats like Okafor did, but that's what the rap was coming out of the draft, so that's nothing new. None of us are really saying that Dwight had a way better season than Okafor straight up, just that we would rather have Dwight over Okafor in a couple of years because of his upside. Dwight was the perfect pick for the Magic(we're able to let him develop) and Okafor was the perfect pick for the Bobcats(they needed an instant impact player and a proven winner)
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting SupraJames:</div><div class="quote_post">Ok, first of all, Emeka (15pts/11reb) does have better numbers than Dwight (12/10).....</div> Once again, because he is the main option in Charlotte and didn't have to share the scoring load. Like I said before, when Dwight was the main option on offense towards the end of last he averaged 17 PPG and 10 RPG (my bad Banks). The point I'm trying to make is that if Dwight was in the spotlight like Emeka, he would be putting up numbers similar or better. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting SupraJames:</div><div class="quote_post">Dwight also has more Turnovers (2) than Emeka (1.7) despite, as you said, touching the ball way less and not being as big of a focus on offense as Emeka is. I'd say the only statistical edge Dwight has on Emeka is his FT%.</div> Ok, so he averages .3 more Turnovers Per Game then Okafor. I think as he continues to develop his turnovers will decrease. Emeka has had a lot more time to improve his game because he went to college for four years and learned from Jim Calhoun, one of the better coaches in the NCAA. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting SupraJames:</div><div class="quote_post">I think we're having two different perspectives here. You're saying that it's alot harder for a player to score if he isn't the main option. This is true to some degree, but when your Point Guard chucks up 17 FGA and making only 42.3% of them, there's bound to be plenty of shots missed. Hedo and Mobley also shot relatively poor (43.2%/12.9FGA and 41.9%/11.7FGA) Grant Hill is the only main guy that shot well (a blistering 50.9%).</div> I see where you're coming from but the same can be said about Emeka. Brevin Knight shot 42.2% from the field, Melvin Ely shot 43.2% and Kareem Rush shot an amazingly low 39.6%. All of these missed shots give Okafor the same chance to score off of rebounds as Howard. So Emeka is having plays directed to him, is having his teamates trying to set him up in a scoring position and he is getting plenty of chances to score off their misses. With all of those oppurtunites to score, you think he could average more then just 3 PPG more then Dwight. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting SupraJames:</div><div class="quote_post">I'm saying that when you are the only star player on the team that everyone focuses on, it's NOT easy to score. I mean seriously, have you taken a look at the Bobcats' roster? Frankly I don't know how Okafor managed to lead this team to an 18-win season as a brand new franchise, not to mention he's got chronic back pains and tremendous pressure as a franchise player. More minutes and plays running through you does not always equal better production. Let's not forget that Okafor was a rookie and already he had to play 35.6mpg every single night shooting 13.7FGA. That's tiring. Do you know how tough it is for a big man to play that many minutes for the whole season? The only C in the league that played more minutes than Okafor last year was Amare (36.1mpg). I'd say Okafor was pretty damn consistent and durable despite suffering that ankle injury midseason that sidelined him for 9 games. The pressure on Howard is nowhere near Emeka's.</div> You made a good point there and I guess it makes sense from both sides. Okafor does get his chances to score but he does have a lot of pressure and has to play many minutes since he is the only option. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting SupraJames:</div><div class="quote_post">How about this, if Emeka's situation was flipped with Howard, do you think Dwight would do alot better than Emeka would've? I seriously don't think so. Howard would struggle big time and probably burn out midseason.</div> I don't think we could judge that because who knows what would have happend. Like I said before, when Dwight was the main option under Chris Jent he averaged 17 PPG and 10 RPG so he might have done better. Then again, he could have had a season ending injury early in the year so you just don't know. I think each player will have promising careers and only time will tell who becomes better.
Howard no contest if we're talking about who to build around. While I like Emeka Okafor as a player, he doesn't have the dominant overall player potential in him. I see him being very good, his defense will get to a high level, and offensively and on the boards he'll be a 17-19 PPG, 10+ RPG player. Right now, Emeka is the better player, he's more experienced, been through a few years of college, and a lot less raw. Howard though has the potential to be the best player in the league. He has Amare type athletism, is already a superior defender and rebounder to Amare, and in 2 years will be a similar offensive player to Amare in his 2nd year. He's a guy you can build a defense and offense around, and also has the all-round skills to do everything on the floor.
Emeka is the better player right now, but Howard will be the better player in the future. Emeka will be a defensive beast in the mold of Ben Wallace/Alonzo Mourning, While Howard will be more like Shawn Kemp/Amare Stoudamire.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Swish15:</div><div class="quote_post">Ok, so he averages .3 more Turnovers Per Game then Okafor. I think as he continues to develop his turnovers will decrease. Emeka has had a lot more time to improve his game because he went to college for four years and learned from Jim Calhoun, one of the better coaches in the NCAA.</div> I completely agree. I've always said Howard will grow and develop into the better player, but I brought this point up just to show how raw Howard is right now compared to Emeka. He shot a whole 5.4FGA less (meaning alot less touches) than Emeka but yet managed to turn the ball over more than Emeka. That'll change in the future I'm sure. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Swish15:</div><div class="quote_post">I see where you're coming from but the same can be said about Emeka. Brevin Knight shot 42.2% from the field, Melvin Ely shot 43.2% and Kareem Rush shot an amazingly low 39.6%. All of these missed shots give Okafor the same chance to score off of rebounds as Howard. So Emeka is having plays directed to him, is having his teamates trying to set him up in a scoring position and he is getting plenty of chances to score off their misses. With all of those oppurtunites to score, you think he could average more then just 3 PPG more then Dwight.</div> Yes but Brevin Knight shot only 9 FGAs per game and Melvin's really a nonfactor player that's actually a 2nd unit, meaning he and Okafor probably doesn't share the court all that much anyways. Kareem is the same, he's not a starter and played for only less than half the season for Charlotte anyways. Statistics aside, you have to take into account that these Charlotte players are all SCRUBS and not nearly comparable to Francis or Grant Hill. Teams are able to guard Charlotte players one on one or even leave them open all alone to double team on Emeka and they would still miss their shots just because they're not all-star players like Francis and Grant are. These 2 players generate more defensive focus than every players in Charlotte combined leading to, again, less defensive pressure on Howard. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Swish15:</div><div class="quote_post">I think each player will have promising careers and only time will tell who becomes better.</div> Actually I'm thinking that Howard will be the better player in the future, I'm just saying that Emeka's the better player last year, right now, and maybe 1-2 years from now.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Statistics aside, you have to take into account that these Charlotte players are all SCRUBS</div> I wouldn't say Knight, Ely, and Rush are scrubs. They are all good role players, and in Knights case, a top 5-10 PG in the league.
