http://www.82games.com/rosenbaum3.htm PG - Steve Francis isn't as bad as we thought he was, and Udrih makes the Top 10, though about every player on the Spurs is in the Top 10 at their position [except Parker]. Chris Duhon is as good as most have said defensively. Chucky Atkins is that bad a defender, the Laker fans and the rest of the people that said that were not joking. SG - Tony Allen leads the list of best defensive SG's [go Allen!!]. Ben Gordon is not bad as people say his is defensively, Redd is that bad a defender, and surprisingly Ricky Davis is not much on the defensive end. Raja Bell is a surprise on the bottom 10 list. SF - No surprise with the Top 2 in Battier and Kirilenko. Artest didn't play enough to be ranked. Paul Pierce and Vince Carter are both surprisingly to most [Carter at least] ranked as good defenders and have been pretty good since 02-03. The bottom 10 SF's comes as no surprise for the most part Tim Thomas, Szczerbiak, Hayes, Nailon, Rashard, Peja. Matt Harpring is a surprise there though, he's a guy that hustles, guess it didn't pay off, or with Bell also being there, the help defense on Utah outside of Kirilenko was that bad. PF - Top 10 is pretty much where most would expect it. Dirk is not that bad defensively. Their's limited data on the rookies, but I'm not surprised with the Seattle guys being there, their interior rotation is a hassle to opposing 4/5's. The bottom 10 is also about where it should be, no names come as a surprise except Al Jefferson. Bonner is horrible defensively, and Cliff Robinson who is a surprise on the bottom 10 is there because of his attrocious rebounding. C - Top 3 is basically a given to tell the truth. Jason Collins is a pleasant surprise in the Top 10, but the other guys outside of Cato come as no surprise. Some Magic fans have said he's bad, though from Houtson I always thought he was good. Bottom 10 C's is not surprising at all, the names expected are there, Curry, Lafrentz, Blount, Drobnjak, Marc Jackson, and Brezec.
Good Find. I thought Josh Childress was a good defender and Darius Miles wasn't so good, but obvisously I was wrong. I was just as surprised seeing Raja Bell ranked that low, too. I wish we can see the inbetweens, though.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">Good Find. I thought Josh Childress was a good defender and Darius Miles wasn't so good, but obvisously I was wrong. I was just as surprised seeing Raja Bell ranked that low, too. I wish we can see the inbetweens, though.</div> Well dont believe these 100%, there are exceptions such as Clifford Robinson being ranked 2nd worst among PFs.
Great find! Yes, ladies and gentlemen, Shane Battier is that good. Just had to say that because I know someone would have said he's too high otherwise. He never gets any recognition for the All-Defensive teams over guys in bigger markets with bigger names *cough*Kobe Bryant*cough*. I also find it ironic that the Grizzlies gave up the third best defensive Point Guard, Earl Watson, for the third worst defensive Point Guard, Damon Stoudamire. Great move, Jerry.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Chucky Atkins is that bad a defender, the Laker fans and the rest of the people that said that were not joking.</div> Truth! It's a great piece of work by Rosenbaum, but there are factors corrupting the numbers.
These are obviously not 100% accurate, but considering many of the players rank where I would actually rank them without any numbers, the accuracy is pretty good. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Well dont believe these 100%, there are exceptions such as Clifford Robinson being ranked 2nd worst among PFs.</div> I think that's all due to rebounding. The team will give up more offensive rebounds when he's on, which will in turn give the opposing team more possesions and second chance oppurtunities. His man to man defense is good, but as a 4/5 when you can't rebound, it's never good for the team. With Raja Bell, if you look at the year by year, he was good till he went to Utah. I'm assuming since he plays as a backup SG/SF, when he comes in and Kirilenko is out, their's a hughe dropoff in defense, not because he's bad, but because Kirilenko has so much defensive impact. That is likely what affects him.... <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Yes, ladies and gentlemen, Shane Battier is that good. Just had to say that because I know someone would have said he's too high otherwise. He never gets any recognition for the All-Defensive teams over guys in bigger markets with bigger names *cough*Kobe Bryant*cough*.</div> I have to agree because I love his defense and have hyped it up myself, if we go back to the discussion about DPOY players, and Underatted Defenders he's always been a guy I felt get's neglected.
Cool list, Rosenbaum did a good job. We can deinately see their are some problems with the list...Ben Gordon lol.
Yup, he specifically said the rookie ones can be tricky since they've only played one year. Ben Gordon could never keep his man infront of him, unless he used some sort of magic to make players miss, he was a bad defender.
I liked the way he backed up his article. There were some players that I felt may have been ommitted or overrated, but he gave a good explanation for all of them and interpreted the stats to leave very little room for discussion.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting N4S:</div><div class="quote_post">Iguodala is one of the best defensive SF's in the league I think.</div> Don't forget "The Matrix."
these stats are bogus..........theres no way that michael redd is the 59th worst shooting guard defender in the nba
^ I'm a fan of Redd, and actually their is way that he's the 59th worst SG in the NBA. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Where the heck is Kobe, A.I, and Tracy. Guess they didn't even crack the top 10</div> AI and Tmac? Kobe is good, but he's not that good defensively, especially last season where he wasn't really a top defender.
Darius Miles the #3 best defensive small forward? I was also surprised to see Marcus Banks at #2 among point guards, though I don't think he's a bad defender. He's improved steadily, and maybe that's not as big an exaggeration as some would think...
Excellent find, og. I was right about Battier, right as he was drafted I knew he'd be a top defender in the NBA. I would go so far as to say that I don't think there are 4 better defenders in the league, I don't care what the stats indicate - he's that smart and good of a defender. Loved seeing Ariza in there, and Tony Allen as well. Those are two players that will be (and already are) elite defenders in the league. No surprises except I thought TT was worse at defense than 36th at the 3. But man, I am really amazed to see Harpring down there at 45, I always imagined he'd be tough to score on, because in the games I watched him in he was a hard-nosed player who did play some half-decent defense - 45 is a shocker, I guess he had trouble defending the quicker SF's. Oh yeah, and now MrJ can finally see how overrated a defender Camby is. AND LOOK. Nazr Mohhamed is 37th! BOO-YAH to all of you who were mad at me for dissing him and his poor defense, watch him play - his weak-side defense is really painful to watch along with the fact that he's not tough at all. He refuses to step up on guys who muscle him up. Oh, and while KT isn't statistically in there on defense, trust me he plays great defense. Better than the stats indicate because he had to play both the 4 and the 5, not to mention he had to work in Lenny's junky system for half a year which hurt him. Plus he had to deal with switching with the crappy ballplayer in the form of Nazr for half a season as well. If there was a listing for defenders in the second half of 04-05 I'm confident KT would be in the top 5 of PF's. Remember that argument about Juwan Howard? He's 53rd - I hope that clears up that old debate in the Rockets forum. Here's some love for my 3rd favorite player, Chris Duhon. I think he's the top defensive PG in the league, if he's second it's only to Kidd (or maybe Boykins when he's playing his very best on defense - because Boykins is really a pesky defender with a good eye for the ball and when he's on the top of his defensive game it's great to watch). I firmly believe that Duhon is the best defensive one, and his stats prove it too. So, three cheers for Duhon!
