<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Eric Snow, a personal favorite of Larry Brown, is drawing the interest of Isiah Thomas and the Knicks at the request of their new coach. There have been rumors about Golden State, which would be willing to move Derek Fisher, and the Cavs trying to recruit a third team to take Snow, but the Knicks are turned off by Snow's bloated contract. The Knicks have some big contract of their own, but since those of Tim Thomas and Penny Hardaway will expire following this season, they have become two of the most attractive in the league.</div> New York Daily News I know you guys would be glad to unload Fisher!
Yeah, but at what cost? I dont want to move Fisher for someone who has just as bad of a contract. If it is a couple of years shorter than Fisher's then maybe, but we have to get something in return because Fisher is still a decent player...
As much as I hate Fisher's point guard game, he's still a good passer, he's an excellent shooter off the catch, he's a pretty good defender when it comes to contesting shots and he's usually our best performer under pressure. Also he's got 3 point range which is nice to have. It's just a matter of keeping the ball out of Fisher's hands so other players can set him up for a wide open shot. Also he takes hard charges and isn't soft. Still, a hefty price for a backup when there are other players in line waiting to get paid and they have much more dimensions and skill right now. But here's a trade I'd be willing to do: <font size="1"> </font> <font size="1"></font> <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"><font size="1">Eric Snow (To Knicks) </font> <font size="1">6-3 PG from Michigan State 4.0 ppg, 1.9 rpg, 3.9 apg in 22.8 minutes </font><font size="1">Maurice Taylor (To Warriors) </font> <font size="1">6-9 PF from Michigan 7.8 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 1.4 apg in 23.8 minutes </font><font size="1">Derek Fisher (To Cavs) </font> <font size="1">6-1 PG from Arkansas-Little Rock 11.8 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 4.1 apg in 30.0 minutes</font></div> If Larry Brown wants Snow that bad so he can turn Stephon Marbury into the next A.I. the Knicks will do it because they don't seem to care about spending money anyway. 40 mil over the luxury threshold. My goodness... Money does grow on trees in NY. They'd have to give up a near expiring contract, but they've got more where that came from. Cavs, they get a 3 point shooter and a serviceable back up or starting guard in Derek Fisher. As long as there are at least two other players to draw double teams (Which they do in Illgauskus and Lebron James and also Larry Hughes) they'll see Fisher as an asset. Dan Gilbert seems willing to spend. Warriors get Mo Taylor. His 9 million per year contract expires after next year. We'll miss out on Fisher if he'll make teams pay for leaving him open especially if Diogu or Baron draw double teams, but the decision would be purely economic for the long term as we wouldn't have to try as hard to move him later when he's 33 or 34 and we're bordering the luxury tax. What'd y'all think? <font size="1"></font>
I would rather get Hardaway then Taylor. Not only Taylor will have lesser role than Hardaway, I believe Hardaway has one year remaining in his contract, instead of two years from Taylor. Since, we hold trade exception, I think that would be enough to cover Hardaway's contract...
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Kwan1031:</div><div class="quote_post">I would rather get Hardaway then Taylor. Not only Taylor will have lesser role than Hardaway, I believe Hardaway has one year remaining in his contract, instead of two years from Taylor. Since, we hold trade exception, I think that would be enough to cover Hardaway's contract...</div> We would probably have to ship Fish, Foyle, and Murphy to get Hardaway and that leaves us with some big holes. Custodian's trade works well though we could get Tim Thomas for Fish, Foyle,Cheany (with NY getting Foyle, Snow and Cheany) if NY is willing to do that. This is assuming that LB wont play Nate Rob or Frye much, NY gets a defensive PG and a defensive C with Cheany as a filler. That being said, it sounds like GS and CLE are the ones looking for a trade partner (assuming the article is true which i doubt it is but the W's board has been slow latey). Other possible options are getting Lammond Murray in return for Fish or sending TOR a filler, Cheany works, plus Snow via CLE for Rafer Alston and Aaron Williams. Other possible trade partners could be Houston, LAL (Snow would fit well into the Triangle), Utah, and Portland
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Kwan1031:</div><div class="quote_post">I would rather get Hardaway then Taylor. Not only Taylor will have lesser role than Hardaway, I believe Hardaway has one year remaining in his contract, instead of two years from Taylor. Since, we hold trade exception, I think that would be enough to cover Hardaway's contract...</div> The problem with Penny's contract is that it's big enough to be very valuable in doing what we did with Dale Davis' contract, so the Knicks might want to hold on to that. I figure the 9 mil Taylor contract would be a lot less valuable so they'd be more willing to part with it since it doesn't expire until a couple of years later, assuming the Knicks want Eric Snow and the Cavs want Fisher instead of any FA's like Damon Jones or somebody. If we ask for too much the Cavs and Knicks might look for other options. I would certainly love getting Penny's contract or Tim Thomas' contract, but those two deals seem too valuable since they can land a good player like a Rasheed Wallace or a Lamar Odom or somebody.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Run BJM:</div><div class="quote_post">We would probably have to ship Fish, Foyle, and Murphy to get Hardaway and that leaves us with some big holes. Custodian's trade works well though we could get Tim Thomas for Fish, Foyle,Cheany (with NY getting Foyle, Snow and Cheany) if NY is willing to do that. This is assuming that LB wont play Nate Rob or Frye much, NY gets a defensive PG and a defensive C with Cheany as a filler. That being said, it sounds like GS and CLE are the ones looking for a trade partner (assuming the article is true which i doubt it is but the W's board has been slow latey). Other possible options are getting Lammond Murray in return for Fish or sending TOR a filler, Cheany works, plus Snow via CLE for Rafer Alston and Aaron Williams. Other possible trade partners could be Houston, LAL (Snow would fit well into the Triangle), Utah, and Portland</div> Good ideas, Run BJM. Especially about any deals involving Rob Babcock and the rest of the T-dot brain trust. They couldn't land Chris Duhon of the Bulls, but maybe there is another way for them to land another solid backup point that can bring some stability to the locker room. Murray for Fisher definitely works. I'd hate to throw out more talent for the sake of worrying about keeping our own guys, but apparently Alvin Williams for Foyle also works too. Biedrins, Taft, Murphy, Zarko, Diogu would all get more burn. Anything's possible with Babcock. That's what I love about the guy not being our GM. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Eric Snow (to NY) 6-3 PG from Michigan State 4.0 ppg, 1.9 rpg, 3.9 apg in 22.8 minutes Adonal Foyle (To Cle) 6-10 C from Colgate 4.5 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 0.7 apg in 21.8 minutes Maurice Taylor (To GS) 6-9 PF from Michigan 7.8 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 1.4 apg in 23.8 minutes</div> Apparently works, but Cleveland would have to see something in getting Foyle's contract. Strengths: Foyle does play weakside D and is a great shotblocker and doesn't need touches to get motivated. He could be a good fill in for the rest of the 3 or 4 years left on his deal up until they can get Marty Andriskevicus some time to get nba ready. Weaknesses: Too much like Dasagna Diop in some ways.
Actually, I will bite Taylor deal. It turned out that Hardaway gets 15 mils per this year, while Taylor gets 19 mils in 2 years, and Fisher + Exception isn't enough to cover the deal. Unless we throw something, the deal won't happen, and at this point, I don't wish to dump anybody. Of course, will Cohan bite 19 mils in 2 years, who's pretty much useless in current condition, to get rid of 31 mils in 5 years contract, who's actually useful? Or, will Mullin admit the mistake and bite the loss? For expiring contracts, due to new 'Houston rule', it's not as valuable as previous years. Before, dead contracts = luxury tax, and many GMs are desperate to dump those dead weights at all cost. That's why teams traded couple first rounders to get 6 mils expiring contract, just to go under luxury tax line. But, with new CBA, teams can just waive players and avoid luxury tax potion. Still, expiring contracts are quite valuable, because it does remove contract part as well, and if your team wants to gain caprooms, expiring contracts are godsend. But, you will no longer see the expiring contracts being traded for picks and stuff, because the desperation factor is now gone. What would happen if we try to get Davis this year, instead of last year, with Davis and Speedy? It's a good possibility that we probably have to pony up a lot more than couple expiring contracts...
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Kwan1031:</div><div class="quote_post">Actually, I will bite Taylor deal. It turned out that Hardaway gets 15 mils per this year, while Taylor gets 19 mils in 2 years, and Fisher + Exception isn't enough to cover the deal. Unless we throw something, the deal won't happen, and at this point, I don't wish to dump anybody. Of course, will Cohan bite 19 mils in 2 years, who's pretty much useless in current condition, to get rid of 31 mils in 5 years contract, who's actually useful? Or, will Mullin admit the mistake and bite the loss? For expiring contracts, due to new 'Houston rule', it's not as valuable as previous years. Before, dead contracts = luxury tax, and many GMs are desperate to dump those dead weights at all cost. That's why teams traded couple first rounders to get 6 mils expiring contract, just to go under luxury tax line. But, with new CBA, teams can just waive players and avoid luxury tax potion. Still, expiring contracts are quite valuable, because it does remove contract part as well, and if your team wants to gain caprooms, expiring contracts are godsend. But, you will no longer see the expiring contracts being traded for picks and stuff, because the desperation factor is now gone. What would happen if we try to get Davis this year, instead of last year, with Davis and Speedy? It's a good possibility that we probably have to pony up a lot more than couple expiring contracts...</div> Awesome! Hopefully, the Knicks and Cavs would bite on it in a win-win situation for their present teams. Maybe Mullin doesn't have to admit any mistake since Fisher was intended to be the starting point guard for the next 6 years. Baron Davis changes all that. I figure if the Cavs want Fisher for that price, who is proven in the playoffs over a guy like Damon Jones who flopped for Miami, and Larry Brown wants his way with Eric Snow so he can play Starbury at shooting guard, the deal to get Mo Taylor makes all the sense in the world because of dumping Fisher's hard-to-trade contract and retaining guys like Ellis, Biedrins, Taft, Zarko, Pietrus, Diogu or Dunleavy. Even if we end up trading Pietrus because he's too good to be a bench guy and the focus is on Dunleavy and Richardson, we'll have plenty of room to sign other star prospects whether it be Taft, Diogu, Z, or Biedrins. Hopefully the W's limit the minutes of top prospects so we have a chance to retain them for a reasonable price. I wouldn't care if Taft/Diogu/Ellis plays mediocre or sucks for four years and ends up being great after we re-sign them. It gives us more leverage and less competition in signing our guys. Considering NY has other expiring contracts worth a lot more, giving up Mo Taylor should be nothing. BTW Foyle works in the trade if the Cavs want a backup center for the next 3 or 4 years. After Diop, I doubt they'd want another "Foyle", though. With Z, Lebron, and Hughes, Fisher makes more sense because he'll punish teams for leaving him open. And those 3 can pass out of double teams.
Radio show in LA today mentioned this 3-Way trade is in serious discussion between the Knicks-Warriors-Cavs. The main players involved were... Cavs receive Derek Fisher Cavs trade Eric Snow Knicks receive Eric Snow Knicks trade Penny Hardaway Warriors receive Penny Hardaway Warriors trade Derek Fisher Obviously there has to be more to the trade, because Penny Hardaway's salary is three times the value of Fisher or Snow.
Thanks for the update, Shape. This is very interesting. Is there a transcript somewhere? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Cavs receive Derek Fisher Cavs trade Eric Snow Knicks receive Eric Snow Knicks trade Penny Hardaway Warriors receive Penny Hardaway Warriors trade Derek Fisher</div> What if the trade is more like: ------- Derek Fisher (To Cavs) 6-1 PG from Arkansas-Little Rock 11.8 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 4.1 apg in 30.0 minutes Troy Murphy (To Cavs) 6-11 PF from Notre Dame 15.4 ppg, 10.8 rpg, 1.4 apg in 33.9 minutes --------- Eric Snow (To Knicks) 6-3 PG from Michigan State 4.0 ppg, 1.9 rpg, 3.9 apg in 22.8 minutes Drew Gooden (To Knicks) 6-10 PF from Kansas 14.4 ppg, 9.2 rpg, 1.6 apg in 30.8 minutes ---------- Anfernee Hardaway (To Warriors) 6-7 SG from Memphis 7.3 ppg, 2.4 rpg, 2.0 apg in 24.2 minutes OR DFish, Dunleavy, Cheany to Cleveland Snow, Foyle, Gooden to New York Afernee Hardaway to Golden State also works
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting custodianrules2:</div><div class="quote_post">Thanks for the update, Shape. This is very interesting. Is there a transcript somewhere? What if the trade is more like: ------- Derek Fisher (To Cavs) 6-1 PG from Arkansas-Little Rock 11.8 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 4.1 apg in 30.0 minutes Troy Murphy (To Cavs) 6-11 PF from Notre Dame 15.4 ppg, 10.8 rpg, 1.4 apg in 33.9 minutes --------- Eric Snow (To Knicks) 6-3 PG from Michigan State 4.0 ppg, 1.9 rpg, 3.9 apg in 22.8 minutes Drew Gooden (To Knicks) 6-10 PF from Kansas 14.4 ppg, 9.2 rpg, 1.6 apg in 30.8 minutes ---------- Anfernee Hardaway (To Warriors) 6-7 SG from Memphis 7.3 ppg, 2.4 rpg, 2.0 apg in 24.2 minutes OR DFish, Dunleavy, Cheany to Cleveland Snow, Foyle, Gooden to New York Afernee Hardaway to Golden State also works</div> I'm not sure if the transcript was posted yet, but if it you'll find it here Lee "Hacksaw" Hamilton I know Gooden has been mentioned in a few trade talks, however I wasn't aware Murphy was being shopped by the Warriors. Personally I think the Warriors should head into the season with their current roster instead of doing any tinkering. They can make moves later on if someone key gets injured, or the team isn't playing up to expectations. Penny Hardaway brings nothing, but Twarzdickery to a franchise.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post">I'm not sure if the transcript was posted yet, but if it you'll find it here Lee "Hacksaw" Hamilton I know Gooden has been mentioned in a few trade talks, however I wasn't aware Murphy was being shopped by the Warriors. Personally I think the Warriors should head into the season with their current roster instead of doing any tinkering. They can make moves later on if someone key gets injured, or the team isn't playing up to expectations. Penny Hardaway brings nothing, but Twarzdickery to a franchise.</div> Thanks. "Twardzickery?" LOL. Nah Murphy is not being shopped. I threw Murphy on there because it looked like Cleveland was getting screwed in that second trade with giving up Snow and Gooden. The Penny deal is just to get out of that contract so we can give Diogu, Taft and Zarko some more burn. The only problem is they are new to the squad and they may not be all that great right away. We suck at rebounding so we need Murphy, but we also suck on defense too and Murphy doesn't really help out in that department. Plus, we want Dunleavy to shoot more rather than defer to everyone else all the time. If we're keeping Troy, I can't see us sticking with Dunleavy unless we want the worst defensive forward tandem in the league. I'm kinda in the Dunleavy or Murphy camp. They just don't cooexist very well, I think. But I guess the W's shouldn't mess with what worked second half of the season even if the only way we could win was to outrun/outscore the other team and just forget defense.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post">Radio show in LA today mentioned this 3-Way trade is in serious discussion between the Knicks-Warriors-Cavs. The main players involved were... Cavs receive Derek Fisher Cavs trade Eric Snow Knicks receive Eric Snow Knicks trade Penny Hardaway Warriors receive Penny Hardaway Warriors trade Derek Fisher Obviously there has to be more to the trade, because Penny Hardaway's salary is three times the value of Fisher or Snow.</div> Oh... that's interesting. I'd like to get a better player than Penny though. He's ancient not so good anymore, and his crap contract If we could throw in Dunleavy and get Ariza to go with Penny, that would make the deal better IMO, but this is very interesting right now because this most likely means that, (A. Managment has a lot of faith in Monta (B. We are looking to get a PG in the market. (C. Penny is too play PG (D. Dunleavy will be backup PG (E. A new trade is coming up with another team to get a good PG by trading Penny or someone
I would imagine this deal would not take place until the season started, since the Warriors are already under the luxury cap number. Taking on Penny's cap figure would likely put them over, assuming they trade Fisher + Murphy or Foyle. However, Penny is in the final year of his deal, so the Warriors would free up close to $16Million for next summer. It would be amazing to see Mullin pull off a trade unloading Foyle & Fisher at the same time.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post">I would imagine this deal would not take place until the season started, since the Warriors are already under the luxury cap number. Taking on Penny's cap figure would likely put them over, assuming they trade Fisher + Murphy or Foyle. However, Penny is in the final year of his deal, so the Warriors would free up close to $16Million for next summer. It would be amazing to see Mullin pull off a trade unloading Foyle & Fisher at the same time.</div> If we could do what you just said, this would be a good lineup. We would prolly have Murphy at C, should Penny come with Fish and Foyle being gone, we would most likely see Evans signed soon, if we were preparing for the trade IMO so come regular season we have PG: Baron Davis/ Monta Ellis/ Penny Hardaway SG: Jason Richardson/ Mickael Pietrus/ Penny Hardaway SF: Mike Dunleavy/ Zarko Cabarkapa/ Mickael Pietrus PF: Reggie Evans/ Ike Diogu/ Zarko Cabarkapa C: Troy Murphy/ Andris Biedrins/ Chris Taft Pretty fun lineup, two great rebounders in Evans and Murphy to start, we might be slow, but when Evans tires, we put Murphy or Ike at PF, put Andris at C for a while, and we'd see mins for everyone.
Heck, I'd settle for a Snow/Fisher straight swap. Sure the contract is still bad, but Snow fits better.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting floppymoose:</div><div class="quote_post">Heck, I'd settle for a Snow/Fisher straight swap. Sure the contract is still bad, but Snow fits better.</div> This is EXACTLY what I was thinking. I've brought this up in one of my fantastic trade scenarios and I believe that we could use Snow's defense and willingness to pass more than we could use Fisher's slowness and willingnes to lob threes while there is still 20 seconds left on the shot clock. Not to mention that Snow wont eat Pietrus minutes at the two and as an added bonus his contract expires a year earlier.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting floppymoose:</div><div class="quote_post">Heck, I'd settle for a Snow/Fisher straight swap. Sure the contract is still bad, but Snow fits better.</div> Floppymoose! Warriors Analyst here but anyway, I'm not sure I like that deal, just two bad contracts, but it does enable Monta more time...
