<div class="quote_poster">Quoting TmacGarnett:</div><div class="quote_post">What i cant figure out is the fact that why no one has noticed that wade cant shoot the 3 ball at all (.289). O yes i know that wade is spectacular off the dribble but look who was opening up the lanes for him. Shaq haslem and mourning cuz those guys would pound the boards if wade ever missed a shot. Wade also has alot of assists because look who he can pass to if he gets in trouble. Eddie and damon jones who are absolutely amazing at the three ball. He also had doleac and laettner who are two good 15 foot shooters.</div> Ok hes not a good 3 pt. shooter, but Kobe had parts of his game that were missing as well. wat about Wade's first year where he still attacked the basket every chance he got. Ok Kobe has good players to pass to as well. Michael Doleac? That guy is pure garbage and shouldn't be allowed near an NBA court. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I GAURANTEE U that wades pts will drop to 20-21(or less) but his assist count will go higher with the addition of walker and posey or might take a turn for the worst if jwill decides to take full pg duties half court and full court plays.</div> Tell me why his pts. will drop? Jwill is going to get him the ball. JWill knows that this isn't his team and will adjust to the style of play in Miami. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">MY starting 5 for sg: kobe tmac ray allen vince carter tied ginobili/rip hamilton</div> Ok how is Ray Allen better tan Dwyne Wade?Manu and Rip? LMAo you give no reasons to put thenm ahead of Wade. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">dont get me wrong i am a wade fan but i think lebron is a better player cuz i gaurantee u if u switchd lebron with wade last season wade/shaq < lebron/shaq</div> Ok then why isn't Lebron on your list? They aren't switched and never will be so throw that out the window. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">wade has just been blessed with a better team both years. Carmelo has no excuse</div> I agree that Melo hasn't been as good as advertised, but Wade's rookie year he carried us to he playoffs and almost to the eastern conference finals.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting playmaker14:</div><div class="quote_post"> Tell me why his pts. will drop? Jwill is going to get him the ball. JWill knows that this isn't his team and will adjust to the style of play in Miami. Ok how is Ray Allen better tan Dwyne Wade?Manu and Rip? LMAo you give no reasons to put thenm ahead of Wade. Ok then why isn't Lebron on your list? They aren't switched and never will be so throw that out the window</div> his pts will drop because the heat have so many other options for scoring. Ultimatley his assists will go higher. Lebron isn't on that list cuz he is a SF and NOT a SG ray allen is a consistant scorer and a leader for his team wade is also a reliable scorer but not as great as ray allen and sahq is the leader of the heat rip hamilton works harder night in and night out and i do realize that he has a much better team so i might have over rated him. Ginobili is better because basically he did in game 7 of the finals what wade didn't do in game 7 of eastern finals. (yes i know the injury he suffered and how that could have affected his game)
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting playmaker14:</div><div class="quote_post">Kobe more clutch? Watch a D Wade mx or video and see how many clutch shots he's hit.Wade's ball handlin is better than Kobe's 4 sure, Kobe led the league in turnovers. Hops? Who cares, hops don't win or lose games. Rings, Wade's only been playin for 2 years? He'll get his share though. Experience of course Kobe because he has played longer, but his teamates don't rlly around him like they do for D Wade. Defense Kobe? Wade was one of the few guards to have over 80 blocks and 80 steals I believe and he lso had over 100 steals if im not mistaken. He folded cause he was injured or have you not seen basketball in a while? How could you say that Kobe would've made a difference? is his named Michael Jordan...no it's not. Moving on, I think that the list is a bit off. I love Wade but I give Kobe the edge because he is the better player(right now) It should go like this 1. kobe 2. T Mac 3. Wade 4. Allen 5. Carter 6. Pierce 7. Ginobli 8. Francis 9. Redd 10. Hughes If you consider LBJ as a Sg then every1 behind Wade moves back a spot. T Mac is just to versatile a player to be left out of the top. Ray over Vc was tough but right now I think Ray Ray is better. Pierce was also a tough call to put behind Vince, but I think Vince is a better player. J Rich just missed my list.</div> OK... the first thing that just about discredits every other thing you have said in your post is your questioning whether Kobe is more clutch than Wade. I doubt you will find a Kobe hater alive who does not agree that kobe has been the most clutch player in the NBA in the last 5 years.
well, I disagree. I find Wade a more clutch player. How is my post dicredited by an opinion? Everyone has them right? Some are just different than others.
To everyone saying wade is worse than kobe because he cant shoot the three a)he's been in the league only two years so he's young. b)that may actually benefit him, how many times have we seen players like vince and kobe take weak 3's instead of driving to the bucket. Which wade does insanely.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Tmac and Kobe have similiar games....insanely similiar, but Kobe's got more moves. He is hands down the best one-on-one player in the league. I think it's ridiculous to say Tmac is better since he had a better year than Kobe. Look at their respective careers and tell me who's the better player if your basing it off wins.</div> Why would you base it off wins? Teams win games, not individuals alone, and individual can be the main reason a team wins, but they don't do it alone. The best teammate Tmac has had before Yao was Vince, and at that time Tmac was a secondary player on the team. Since he's been the main man, his best teammates have been Mike Miller, Drew Gooden, and Juwan Howard, those guys are supposed to compare to the Laker teams? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Kobe vs Wade Clutch: Kobe Ball Handling: Kobe Hops: Kobe Rings: Kobe Experience: Kobe Defense: Kobe</div> Kobe has better handles than Wade? Isn't Wade the one that's a SG/PG, and even played PG as a rookie? Isn't he also the one that owns on of the deadliest crossovers in the league? Even with that, I don't understand how that means anything in this debate. Rafer Alston has better handles than both of them and most of the PG's in the league, big deal? Hops? I don't get that one either, Travis Outlaw also has a 44 inch vertical, and Kedrick Brown was one of the most athletic players in the NBA the past few years, where is he now? Pure athletic ability doesn't determine basketball skills. Kobe has about a 38 inch vertical, Wade has a 36 inch vertical, not a big difference, but that's not what determines how good basketball players they are. Rings? Again, Tony Parker also has more rings than Wade, and so does Darko, very nice. <u>Kobe vs Wade</u> Shooting: Kobe Passing: Wade Scoring: Kobe Defense: Kobe with a slight edge, while Kobe has been a good defender, his performance last year was not impressive on the defensive end, and it made it seem like Shaq was a big part of his defensive success. Teamplay: Wade Leadership: N/A - I don't feel Wade has yet shown to be a great leader on the floor, he's led by example, but he's not yet a vocal leader and someone that can rally teammates around him. Kobe also hasn't yet shown he can be the type of leader his team needs, and still needs work in that area.
Tracy and Kobe are the top two guards in the NBA, their spots on the list need to be switched with Ray Allen's and Wade's.
I think speaking based only on individual skills, and ability on the court, Kobe is the best Sg right now, followed by T-mac. I would post more right now, but i'm hungry and my food is ready, lol.
Kobe tried too many times to be "clutch" this year. At the end of the game, he hogs the ball NO MATTER WHAT. He could be guarded by three people but he will still shoot the final shot...and he missed a lot of them this season. He's still a great clutch player, but he's not as good as I thought he was before the season.
The only way we can know who is better is if we got them all to play a 1 on 1 on 1 game. Kobe vs. Tmac vs. Wade, like in NBA Ballers
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting jtam101:</div><div class="quote_post">The only way we can know who is better is if we got them all to play a 1 on 1 on 1 game. Kobe vs. Tmac vs. Wade, like in NBA Ballers </div> But one player will aways be doubled.
I can't bare to read this filth any longer. I had been reading this thread for awhile, hoping to see the Kobe supporters come out in full force. But this is just disgusting. Wade is better than Kobe? You've got to be kidding me! Just call D-wade Swiss Cheese, because he has so many holes in his game. Wade is a huge turnover machine. I saw him get ripped several times during the season, and he was averaging up around 5 turnovers per game against Washington in the playoffs. Wade also ranks 2nd in turnovers per game, with 4.17 per game. His handles are suspect. In regards to passing, Wade's assists are obvioulsy inflated because he is playing with Shaq, all you have to do is dump it into him and you will get assists. Not to mention, guys like Damon Jones and Eddie Jones, who are sharpshooters, will get you assists. Wade only averaged 4.5 assists per game when Shaq wasn't in Miami, which is decent, but Shaq obviously helps his game. Meanwhile, Kobe averaged nearly the same amount of assists this past season, and he was playing alongside many scrubs. Just for fun, I'm gonna compare Kobe and Wade: Scoring: Kobe Passing: Kobe (Wade averaged more assists, but that is flawed) Rebounds: Kobe Defense: This year Wade, but over history, Kobe wins FG %: Wade FT %: Kobe 3 %: Kobe Clutch: Kobe Turnovers: Wade averages more It's close, but Kobe wins most major categories. And since many fans base who is better on efficiency ratings, I'm gonna throw out a fact: Kobe has a better efficiency rating than Dwayne Wade, go figure. Bottom line: Wade still has a lot to work on in order to catch Kobe. His jumper is weak (only a .289% 3-pt shooter) and his turnovers are abundant. Wade is a top 5 shooting guard, but is NO Kobe. For those who may be skeptics of Kobe, this should add an extra measure of respect for his game. Even Phil Jackson, one of his biggest critics at times, said that Kobe is the best player in the game. Keep in mind, this is coming from a guy that isn't really a Kobe-jocker. I'm goin to bed, so I won't be able to argue more with you until tomorrow.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Isn't he also the one that owns on of the deadliest crossovers in the league?</div> Actually, its a "cutback".So if everyone could from now on realize it isnt a crossover that would be more accurate.Im a jerk.Now,im no laker or Kobe fan and even I realize that Kobe is the best at his position in the league.He and Mcgrady are about even in my mind at this point.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">What i cant figure out is the fact that why no one has noticed that wade cant shoot the 3 ball at all (.289). O yes i know that wade is spectacular off the dribble but look who was opening up the lanes for him. Shaq haslem and mourning cuz those guys would pound the boards if wade ever missed a shot. Wade also has alot of assists because look who he can pass to if he gets in trouble. Eddie and damon jones who are absolutely amazing at the three ball. He also had doleac and laettner who are two good 15 foot shooters.</div> This is why people need to understand stats. Wade shot 28.9%, but because he took very few three's, the law of large numbers applies. Wade took 45 three's in the season, with 17-18 of those being half-court heaves at the end of quarters, and clock expiring shots, he made 3 of those. If he had taken 180 three's, those 17-18 shots would make maybe a 1-2% difference in his numbers, but with him taking only 45 three's, it makes a pretty big difference. Eliminate the 3-17 on desperation shots, and he shot 10-28, about 35.7% on three's. Now, if he was taking more three's, teams would guard him more from outisde so he'd get less open looks etc, so taking about 180 three's in a season, he would likely shoot in the 32-33% range. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting "the MDE":</div><div class="quote_post">In regards to passing, Wade's assists are obvioulsy inflated because he is playing with Shaq, all you have to do is dump it into him and you will get assists. Not to mention, guys like Damon Jones and Eddie Jones, who are sharpshooters, will get you assists. Wade only averaged 4.5 assists per game when Shaq wasn't in Miami, which is decent, but Shaq obviously helps his game. Meanwhile, Kobe averaged nearly the same amount of assists this past season, and he was playing alongside many scrubs.</div> Yes, but let's not ignore the fact that Wade was a rookie in 03-04, and just learning to play the point position for the first time in his career. He had been a SG till he came to the NBA, and in addition to that, he was sharing playmaking duties with both Rafer Alston and Odom. This season Wade was not the PG, but he was the primary playmaker. If it's that easy to just dump it to Shaq and get an assist, why was this Kobe's highest APG year? If he [Kobe] was that much better at passing, he should've averaged 7+ APG in previous years right? Especially considering Shaq was averaging high 27-29 PPG numbers and playing 36+ MPG with Kobe, and with Wade he averaged 23 PPG on a career high FG%, playing 34.1 MPG. He [Kobe] was in the same situation, the Lakers had SG's who just bring up the ball at PG, and Kobe was the primary playmaker and ball handler. Shaq made 9 FG's a game last season, and was assisted on 53% of those, that's 4.77 FG's a game [compared to 02-03 where he was assisted on 6.8 FG's a game]. Most of the time, the Heat stack Shaq's side with an outside shooter, mainly Damon Jones, who posts and reposts Shaq till he get's good position. Eddie Jones is used next, and then Wade. Wade mostly runs pick and rolls with Shaq, not post ups, he get's his assists to Shaq on drive and dishes. Shaq doesn't just catch and turn and dunk when he get's the ball either, many times he catches, waits for things to develop and allows the offense to run through him. Wade would get about 1-1.5 APG off Shaq. Now fast forward to when Shaq was injured, Wade averaged 9 APG in those periods, and Kobe also played 40.7 MPG to Wade's 38.6 MPG. Kobe averaged 6.0 APG, Wade's assists PER 40.7 minutes is 7.2 APG. Concerning the sharp shooters. The Heat outisde of Wade made 5.6 three's a game on 38% shooting. The Lakers outside of Kobe hit 6.3 three's a game on 36% shooting. The Heat had 3 good outside shooters, Jones, Jones and Butler. The Lakers also had 3 good outisde shooters, Atkins, Jones, and Cook.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Defense: This year Wade, but over history, Kobe wins</div> I would put Kobe ahead of Wade in this category as well the MDE. Eddie Jones drew the tougher defensive assignment for the Heat last season. Last year Kobe was the #1 option on both ends of the floor. His numbers weren't as good as previous seasons, but a lot had to do with Shaq not clogging the middle anymore and having Chris Mihm anchor the defense. However, a prime example of Kobe's defensive superiority was his shutdown of Michael Redd. He held Redd to only 7.0PPG last season in both meetings. Kobe Bryant is the better post defender and on the ball defender.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">This season Wade was not the PG, but he was the primary playmaker. If it's that easy to just dump it to Shaq and get an assist, why was this Kobe's highest APG year? If he [Kobe] was that much better at passing, he should've averaged 7+ APG in previous years right? Especially considering Shaq was averaging high 27-29 PPG numbers and playing 36+ MPG with Kobe, and with Wade he averaged 23 PPG on a career high FG%, playing 34.1 MPG. He [Kobe] was in the same situation, the Lakers had SG's who just bring up the ball at PG, and Kobe was the primary playmaker and ball handler. </div> The Triangle offense has always limited player assists. Shaq's touches came from the high post. He'd put the ball on the floor before he shot, negating most assists. Also Kobe was never the initiator on offense until last season.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Lamont:</div><div class="quote_post">To everyone saying wade is worse than kobe because he cant shoot the three a)he's been in the league only two years so he's young.b)that may actually benefit him, how many times have we seen players like vince and kobe take weak 3's instead of driving to the bucket. Which wade does insanely.</div> No one has made this statement. If you want to use the excuse Wade has only been in the year two years, why bother comparing the two players at all? Let's see how Wade does when he has 5 years under his belt.
My list: 10) Arenas 9) Rasheed Wallace 8) Paul Peirce 7) Redd 6) Carter 5) Manu 4) Tony Parker 3) Kobe 2) T-Mac--and AI; Tied 1) wade
Lebron and Wade lovers too often use the words "could be" as a cop out. "He's not better than Kobe, but he COULD BE". How bout this, they're both very good, but COULD never become great players. It's a wrap. Kobe is the wing player in the league for the simple fact that he's better than all the wing players in the league. Nobody can take they're game to another level like Kobe. End of discussion.
