I don't think anyone is suggesting Kobe Bryant is the better SG, <u>solely</u> based on being the better 3-point shooter. It is just one aspect of basketball skill Kobe is better at. It's just too, early to compare their careers at his point. Dwayne Wade is only in his second season, while Kobe has already played 9 seasons.
At this point, I think its clear that Kobe is the better SG skill and talent wise. He also has 3 rings, so Kobe has obviously accomplished more in his career. Kobe seems to be more selfish than Wade though, because Kobe wanted his own team more than winning. He wanted to be The Man more than winning, as he had Shaq traded to be The #1 option. Wade is more humble and thinks that doesn't have the same ego regarding whoose team it is.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting 02civic:</div><div class="quote_post">I disagree. I think Kobe is clutch, more so than MOST of the stars out there but i wouldnt put him at the top of the list. Personally if i was taking a list of clutch from last year only i'd HAVE to put Jalen Rose on it somewhere..though not the top simply because the raps didnt have any really important games. Robert Horry is the most clutch player in the NBA, Kobe is top 5(maybe #2) and some people could make an arguement for Billups. I think Tim Duncan is a realistic option for being the most clutch(after big shot bob) person on the NBA.</div> First off, this is getting ridiculous. So Kobe is somewhere on your list of clutch players behind JALEN ROSE?? That is a very interesting statement. Anyway, we all know with the game on the line, Kobe is THE MAN. He's hit more clutch shots than any guard currently in the league. Like I said, there isn't any comparison.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Jurassic:</div><div class="quote_post">In Kobe's defense, he won three rings with Shaq, and a bunch of lesser role players than Wade had. Imagine this lineup. PG-Damon Jones SG-Kobe SF-Eddie Jones PF-Udonis Haslem C- Shaq Sure, you could argue that during the Lakers run they had a better starting 5. But, Damon Jones would have held his own against western point guards better than Fisher ever did. Also, any of the Heat's big men would have been a better backup to Shaq than Slava was. With the exception of the year when GP was there, the Lakers always had an undersized and inexperienced point guard backing up Fisher. Keyon Dooling would have been better than Tyron Lue, or any of those other guys. Wade was provided with more than Kobe had, yet accomplished less.</div> You're forgetting the main factor in these tea,s sucesses, Shaquille O'neal. Shaq now is not the same player he was when the Lakers were winning championships, and he was averaging 30-15 in the playoffs. He's obviously still good, but he's not as good as he was before. I don't know if we can argue the Heat being better overall, let's use 2002 as an example: Fisher vs Damon Jones - Fisher is the better defender by a long shot, mostly because Damon Jones can hardly move defensively, they're comparable shooters, but I'd give Damon a slight edge at least for last season. Rick Fox vs Eddie Jones - Fox was a better all-round player, mostly in the passing and rebounding area. Considering age it's tough, Eddie Jones as a younger player was better obviously, but 02 Fox to Jones now are about equal scorers, but Jones has the edge in the shooting and defensive side. Robert Horry vs Haslem - No comparison here, I'll take Horry's vastly superior clutch ablities, superior man to man and help defense, and superior everything else over Haslem any day. Haslem is nice, but this is Robert Horry we're talking about, he won games and series' with his clutch shots. Brian Shaw vs Dooling - Well Brian Shaw wasn't a crazy out of control PG who thought he was the main scorer when he was on the floor. Shaw wins this one on experience, and poise while on the floor, Dooling just didn't know what to do half the time and was too wild. Samaki vs Alonzo - , Samaki who? Okay, really Samaki wasn't that terrible, but Alonozo is obviously better. George vs R.Butler - Comparable shooters, but Butler is better as a shooter. Geroge was the better defender, scorer, rebounder, everything else. Shaq 99-2001 vs Shaq 05 - Well Shaq in 2002 for example [the last championship year] averaged 30+ PPG and 12+ RPG in the conference finals and in the NBA Finals. Shaq in 2002 also didn't get injured in the playoffs, and was a better player than he is right now. Shaq this playoffs averaged 19 PPG and 7.8 RPG. So when you look at it, overall the Heat's supposting cast is about the same, and Shaq was better back then. If you go back even further, 2001 they had Fisher-Fox-Horry-H.Grant-Shaw. In 2000, Harper-Rice-Horry-Fox-Fisher-Green, not much of a comparison with this one with the complimentary guys, and then when you add in Shaq being a beast since it was his MVP year, and one of the years where he wasn't out much during the regular season, it's a massive blowout.
Tru dat. The only other player last season taht can even compare to kobe is tmac with his 13 in 35 or mike bibby hitting 3 game winners in 3 consecutive games
^ So did Ben Gordon's season of fantastic finishes get erased from people's memories? What about Wade, Arenas, Pierce, Ray Allen, I don't know people. Kobe was not the most clutch player last season, he struggled a little down the stretch, he was more of a shot taker than maker, always trying to be the one that made something happen.
Most critics judge Kobe only on last season, but one season does not make a player. Yes Kobe failed in his first year as the go-to player, but let's not write off everything he did prior to last season. Overall Kobe Bryant is the best shooting guard in the game.
Yall read to start this back up now? I think there has been a fair amount of time to begin this discussion anew
What's there to discuss? Wade still isn't better than Kobe. He's having a great Finals, but even if Miami wins it all and Wade wins Finals MVP, he's still not on Kobe's level. When Wade can play at his current level for 10 straight seasons then the comparisons are valid.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post">What's there to discuss? Wade still isn't better than Kobe. He's having a great Finals, but even if Miami wins it all and Wade wins Finals MVP, he's still not on Kobe's level. When Wade can play at his current level for 10 straight seasons then the comparisons are valid.</div> 10? I say he plays like this 5 more seasons and then we can compare them two. There'll be a lot of people saying Wade is finally better than Kobe. Give Wade the young Shaq that Kobe had, Wade will be even better than he is now.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Brasco:</div><div class="quote_post">Oh ya your right wade had...exactly the same teamates as Kobe down to brian grant, and he still made the playoffs with them and kobe didnt. You made my point.</div> dude stop hating
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting WadeDynasty:</div><div class="quote_post">10? I say he plays like this 5 more seasons and then we can compare them two. There'll be a lot of people saying Wade is finally better than Kobe. Give Wade the young Shaq that Kobe had, Wade will be even better than he is now.</div> maybe or maybe not
So why is Wade asking Bryant to help him with his defense over the summer? Shouldnt Wade learn from someone better than he is? If Bryant aint better than Wade, Wade is wasting his time? Makes you wonder doesnt it.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">but even if Miami wins it all and Wade wins Finals MVP, he's still not on Kobe's level. </div> hahah... u serious? Do we need to break this down like the Jordan, Lebron threads? Compare Wade against a championship Detroit squad and a lesser Shaq VS Kobe against budding Pistons of 04' with a dominant Shaq at his disposal Compare Wade at 24 Kobe at 24 Compare Wade in his 3rd season Kobe in his 3rd season Compare Wade's playoff efficiency over the last 2 years to Kobe's playoff efficiency the last 2 years Kobe's level? You're right looking at this they dont look like they'll be on the same level at all in the end. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">When Wade can play at his current level for 10 straight seasons then the comparisons are valid</div> ps: weren't you the same guy who wanted to compare Kobe and Jordan?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting WadeDynasty:</div><div class="quote_post">10? I say he plays like this 5 more seasons and then we can compare them two. There'll be a lot of people saying Wade is finally better than Kobe. Give Wade the young Shaq that Kobe had, Wade will be even better than he is now.</div> If Kobe had Tim Duncan the Lakers would still be winning titles. If Shaq checked his ego the way he did when the Lakers traded him, the Lakers would still be winning titles. Just look at what the Lakers did in the final month of the season once everyone was on the same page. If they had a consistent low post player, they could very well be in the Finals this year. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Airtight:</div><div class="quote_post">but even if Miami wins it all and Wade wins Finals MVP, he's still not on Kobe's level. hahah... u serious? Do we need to break this down like the Jordan, Lebron threads? Compare Wade against a championship Detroit squad and a lesser Shaq VS Kobe against budding Pistons of 04' with a dominant Shaq at his disposal Compare Wade at 24 Kobe at 24 Compare Wade in his 3rd season Kobe in his 3rd season Compare Wade's playoff efficiency over the last 2 years to Kobe's playoff efficiency the last 2 years Kobe's level? You're right looking at this they dont look like they'll be on the same level at all in the end. When Wade can play at his current level for 10 straight seasons then the comparisons are valid ps: weren't you the same guy who wanted to compare Kobe and Jordan?</div> Actually I'm the guy who said we shouldn't compare Kobe and Jordan until Kobe's career is done. If you want to compare them at the same stage they were at in their careers then of course Jordan is better. I still think Kobe has a chance to reach Jordan's success level. It really depends on how long he plays, maybe he can go another 10 seasons. How many rings would he need to win during those seasons to put him at Jordan's level? 3? 4? 5 plus? A fair comparison is Wade at 24 v. Kobe at 24 ... Kobe - 30.4 PPG 5.9 APG 6.9 RPG .451 FG% .843 FTP% .383 3PT% 28.02 EFF Wade - 27.2 PPG 6.7 APG 5.7 RPG .495 FG% .783 FTP% .171 3PT% 26.95 EFF
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post">If Kobe had Tim Duncan the Lakers would still be winning titles. If Shaq checked his ego the way he did when the Lakers traded him, the Lakers would still be winning titles. Just look at what the Lakers did in the final month of the season once everyone was on the same page. If they had a consistent low post player, they could very well be in the Finals this year. </div> Kobe with TD would win the title? Come on. You think the current Lakers squad + TD can beat every team in the league? The Spurs have much better bench than Lakers' and couldn't beat the Mavs Current Lakers + Kobe + TD = Title? Maybe Final Four.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting WadeDynasty:</div><div class="quote_post">Kobe with TD would win the title? Come on. You think the current Lakers squad + TD can beat every team in the league? The Spurs have much better bench than Lakers' and couldn't beat the Mavs Current Lakers + Kobe + TD = Title? Maybe Final Four.</div> Kobe and TD on the same team would run the table. Tim Duncan is a consistent two way player and the post threat the Lakers need. The Lakers were able to take the heavily favored Suns to 7 games. You don't think having Duncan on the squad would have given the Lakers the edge in that series? Just watch all the point blank looks Kwame got and missed in the series and imagine Duncan is getting those same looks. Plus Duncan is a far better defensive player than Kwame. Kobe and TD duo would be winning titles no doubt about it.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">What's there to discuss? Wade still isn't better than Kobe. He's having a great Finals, but even if Miami wins it all and Wade wins Finals MVP, he's still not on Kobe's level. When Wade can play at his current level for 10 straight seasons then the comparisons are valid. </div> I disagree, we're judging both players "right now", and right now you can make a good argument that D Wade is better than Kobe, Bron, etc and possibly the best player in the league....a guy doesn't have to play 10 seasons for me to figure out that he's great.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting THE DREAM:</div><div class="quote_post">I disagree, we're judging both players "right now", and right now you can make a good argument that D Wade is better than Kobe, Bron, etc and possibly the best player in the league....a guy doesn't have to play 10 seasons for me to figure out that he's great.</div> Right now as in this past season? If you are going to argue Wade is the best player in the league and specifically better than Kobe what criteria are you using to draw this conclusion? Statistically on offense it's a wash between these two. Kobe finished with a higher PER 28.3 to 28.0 for Wade. Defensively Kobe is the better player no argument there. So what makes Wade better than Kobe usually comes down to a person's opinion because the stats don't really back it up in his favor? During the regular season the Lakers had a better record against the elite teams in the league. The Heat didn't have a single win against the top Western Conference teams in the regular season. The Heat are playing great basketball, and Wade has been amazing the last two games. I think the team peaked at the opportune time and it helped them get to the Finals. However, Kobe is still the better player, and like Trench said, if he wasn't Wade wouldn't be asking for Kobe's mentorship in the offseason.
