It shouldn't be that big a deal to the fans, I really wasn't expecting playoffs, and considering how much the East has improved, winning 33 games again with our inexpereinced roster will be hard. The only people it affects is the players, who won't really be happy to hear that not too much is expected from them, even if it's in a move to save the coach from being attacked. Jalen Rose is one who has never been happy about a rebuilding situation, and with him getting older too, he'll likely want to leave the team sooner than later if the expectations aren't much. Now if he could just cut his contract in half, many teams would want him. It affects the older players more because when you're not "looking to make the post-season", younger players get more PT, and older players aren't too happy.
its not taht big of a deal to fans, no, but this whole sitayation is terrible, a GM should NEVER say something like that. Its pure ignorance. It
He is not saying anything the people in Toronto and Raptors fans don't already know. Although I would like to see some more optimism from his part. The way things are looking: His ass is as good as fired come next season.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting og15:</div><div class="quote_post">It shouldn't be that big a deal to the fans, I really wasn't expecting playoffs, and considering how much the East has improved, winning 33 games again with our inexpereinced roster will be hard. The only people it affects is the players, who won't really be happy to hear that not too much is expected from them, even if it's in a move to save the coach from being attacked. Jalen Rose is one who has never been happy about a rebuilding situation, and with him getting older too, he'll likely want to leave the team sooner than later if the expectations aren't much. Now if he could just cut his contract in half, many teams would want him. It affects the older players more because when you're not "looking to make the post-season", younger players get more PT, and older players aren't too happy.</div> Which 'players' do you mean? If you mean Rose, Aaron Williams and Eric Williams won't be happy, well here's a news flash for ya: We are committed to playing young guys over the veterans even if it meant they will be disgruntled. Mitchell knows that, Bosh knows that, Villanueva and Graham know that and any Raptors fan and their third cousins should know that by now. And what the hell is this "Oh, Babcock will be fired before the end of next season" crap? What people fail to realize is that every decision Babcock has made or will make also comes from Wayne Embry and every one of his advisors and scouts. Do you want to start a 'Fire Wayne Embry' thread too, or for that matter 'Replace the entire Raptors brass because you can do a better job' thread? Please. I'm sure you will enjoy every bit of it if Babcock was replaced by an Isiah Thomas clone.
what about Jack McCloskey who babcock gets advice from? I'd gladly fire him... he's the useless piece of crap who pretty much hand cuffed MLSE into hiring babcock and played a big part in drafting arujo If embrie is making all the decisions he should be gm. Until then, Babcock is the head guy and should be responsible for what he does IMO.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Which 'players' do you mean? If you mean Rose, Aaron Williams and Eric Williams won't be happy, well here's a news flash for ya: We are committed to playing young guys over the veterans even if it meant they will be disgruntled. Mitchell knows that, Bosh knows that, Villanueva and Graham know that and any Raptors fan and their third cousins should know that by now. </div> What's the need of defending baically everything Babcock says and does, he's not the best GM in the league, and far from perfect. I'm not talking about PT, but no older players wants to be in a situation where they're losing, and getting little playing time. While you're winning, complaints are hidden, when you're losing, everyone is happy to speak their mind. You saw what happened in Chicago when he was coming off the bench, or even last season when he was coming off the bench, he complains, and worst case scenario, he becomes a distraction. Even Eric Williams the great class act was not happy to not be playing on a rebuilding team when he could get PT on championship teams. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">What people fail to realize is that every decision Babcock has made or will make also comes from Wayne Embry and every one of his advisors and scouts.</div> They all advise him, but Babcock is the one that make's finals decisions. Whether you want to believe it or not, the management guys will not always agree on every acquisition or move made by the team, the aren't going to be 100% on every single move being made. I don't care about this fire Babcock nonsense, but they also don't talk for him, or tell him to say everything he says. Anyway you put it, he needs better PR advisors, as a GM, their's some things you can say, and others even if they're true you just let slide. Being vague though annoying is better than being open, and getting yourself in a mess.
It wasn't a well thought out statement to make, but I don't feel that any of this "Fire Babcock" talk is warranted. The fans should take it as it is. I've always appreciated Babcock's blatant honesty when talking to the media; it's such a refreshing approach compared to the "no-comment" or "propoganda" approach that most GM's use. The fans should be worried that the players (all of the players) take this the wrong way, not whether or not he's setting the team up for failure (the team wasn't that good anyway).
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> I've always appreciated Babcock's blatant honesty when talking to the media; it's such a refreshing approach compared to the "no-comment" or "propoganda" approach that most GM's use</div> Actually that's what Babcock does most of the time, all last season, that's all he used to say, no comment, no comment....
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting og15:</div><div class="quote_post">Actually that's what Babcock does most of the time, all last season, that's all he used to say, no comment, no comment....</div> He does that when talking about trades or signings that are about to happen, which is understandable. I'm talking about how he answers questions when he's asked to give an analysis on a player, a move, etc. He's gives honest answers that are better than most G's around the league
I think any comments that could be raised into hell by the media shouldn't be said at all. Of course, the Raps are a losing team, therefore everything will be turned into a negative. At least, put some effort in staying positive and acknowledging that the future looks bright in Toronto. People are backing up "The Cack" like he's some sort of amazing GM, which he most certainly is not. And right now, everything that happens comes out as being negative - he definitely has a lot to prove this year and if nothing happens and not a lot improves...I think MLSE should send The Cack packin'. I'm tired of this.
People need to get over this and stop hating on Babcock. He didnt say the Raps have "no chance" and his expectations for the Raps not to improve THIS year in terms of GAMES WON, is probably not far off. The Raps have alot of new faces that will be brought into the mix faster than they probably would be on a winning team, in hopes that the extra playing time will help out next season or the season after. He used the wrong wording but however you want to word it there is NOTHING wrong with admitting your team is inexperienced and that that inexperience will more than likely cost them in the short term, but with long term dividends.
Yes, but the season hasn't even started yet. I don't know how you see it dude...I don't think any GM would ever say that about their team. A wise GM would never say something like that...like I said before, I'll say it again...the Raps have as much a chance as anybody. Nobody is giving this team a chance and if they do miss the playoffs, then fine. But, don't come out when no games haven't even been played yet, saying that this team is probably not even capable of getting 33 wins. However he said it, however he meant to say it...he should've just kept his mouth shut. There. Someone should seriously just end this thread.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting "Jalen Rose":</div><div class="quote_post">"I've never been part of a situation like that -- and I'm pretty sure I've never heard anybody in professional sports make a comment so negative that early in the season. Even the bad teams have optimism. You don't want to take away the optimism so early in the season. The Bad News Bears coach wouldn't even tell them that." --Jalen Rose, on Raptors GM Rob Babcock's prediction that the team will lose more games this year than last year. </div> Like I said, it's about how the players see it, I personally don't care much...
If the players in question have half the brains - anyone not named Jalen Rose - they would understand what Babcock was trying to say. Jalen Rose wants out and he will keep wanting out no matter when and how Babcock openly admits the team is officially in the rebuilding phase and the vets will have to take a backseat to the young guys. If he becomes a distraction, suspend him with pay for the entire season. I'm ashamed to mention one move that Isiah did and actually made sense, but that's what Isiah did to Penny Hardaway. He told him to stay home and collect cheques because he was being a distraction to the team.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting VinKanaddy:</div><div class="quote_post">Just what the hell is it with you people? You were (including myself) the same people bashing media left and right and now it's the media who needs our protection? He did not say anything close to "We have no chance", all he said was if you (a casual fan) looked at the Raptors roster, he / she would probably not think that we will win as many games as last year. Steve Buffery and the Sun's editor blew it way out of proportion by putting their words in the same context as Babcock's. Steve Buffery did get punished for this on Sportsnet by Jim Van Horn, if anyone saw the interview.</div> I saw that, it felt good watching someone from the media (especially the shock/tabloid sector of the media) squirm so much, when van horne asked about the relationship the screaming headline "we've got no chance" had to do with what babcock said to him...steve buffery's squirming and spitting started and never stopped
He might not have literally said "We have no chance", but he might as well have. If we can't even get 33 wins, according to Babcock, then what are our chances of making the playoffs? None. And why the hell has he not put any of this blame on himself? He signed Rafer to the long-term contract (who's just been one large distraction), let Donyell go without getting anything in return, drafted Araujo, traded our best player and got two disgruntled players (who never even played) and a player who we're still paying even though he never even played a single minute for us. We lost 20 something points and got basically nothing in return. Why not admit that the reason why the Raptors have no chance this year is largely his own fault? I don't know how anyone can defend Babcock right now. The Raptors are in the worst shape they've ever been in, with no real hope in sight.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I don't know how anyone can defend Babcock right now. The Raptors are in the worst shape they've ever been in, with no real hope in sight.</div> We have hope with our young guys, not for this season, but for later seasons, I just don't understand why their's always people that have to defend him like he's great or something. Seriously, he's not even a Top 20 GM in the league, so some people need to stop acting like he's some saviour. If we all ranked him right now, he'd probably average a rating between 5-6 out of 10, so it's not like he's superGM.
first as some people stated, babcock did not predict a losing season, the media did by manipulating his words to sound like that... at least for the real fans of ball they have already assesed the situation of the raps and hope for the best as none of knows how injuries, trades and the performance of our rookies will pan out, but most of us are exicited to see the youth movement and see a change in guard / philosophy of the raps... for the casual bandwagon fans, they prey on comments/media reports to justify knocking the raptors... the raptors are not part of the elite teams by any means, but i feel the foundation is there is build a good team (at least we're not the clippers, or hornets)... judging babcock over the past year you can see he is straight to the point and by no means is a people pleaser (he will not say what you want to hear), but it's also good to see him stand his ground and try to gain some respect for the organization... this team is setup to turn some heads (hopefully smiths head for sure) and create some upsets in the league
