<div class="quote_poster">Quoting og15:</div><div class="quote_post">What's the need of defending baically everything Babcock says and does, he's not the best GM in the league, and far from perfect. I'm not talking about PT, but no older players wants to be in a situation where they're losing, and getting little playing time. While you're winning, complaints are hidden, when you're losing, everyone is happy to speak their mind. You saw what happened in Chicago when he was coming off the bench, or even last season when he was coming off the bench, he complains, and worst case scenario, he becomes a distraction. Even Eric Williams the great class act was not happy to not be playing on a rebuilding team when he could get PT on championship teams.</div> I understand what you're saying, but frankly, we shouldn't really care how Jalen feels at this point b/c he's going to complain and become a distraction no matter what. He's fully aware of the fact that he's not wanted on the team, he knows that Babcock would kill to have him and his hefty contract off the roster. The same goes for the Williamses, they both are aware that Babcock is shopping them around so they won't be happy either, whether or not Babcock made those comments. I'm far from a Babcock supporter and I agree that his comments were unnecessary, but I don't think we should get all concerned about this. Personally, I'm just happy that we have direction this time around. Last season we saw Babcock flip-flopping over whether we were dedicated to developing our young guys or whether we wanted to make a push for the play-offs.... at least now we know for sure that the focus for this season will be on developing our young guys which, as he already stated, will put less pressure on Mitchell so he can give these guys some much needed minutes. Let's just hope he sticks to his word this time around.....
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting deception:</div><div class="quote_post">why does babcock get slammed for stating the obvious truth?</div> He's done nothing yet to prove that he's a damn good GM for this franchise. Sure, he drafted Charlie and Joey Graham but anyone other GM would get the same sort of caliber players at 9th and 14th pick. I don't get why everyone defends him. He should be gone...he's letting all of our best go without getting anything in return. The future does look bright for the Raps, but brighter if The Cack is gone.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MAKEOUTCITY:</div><div class="quote_post">He's done nothing yet to prove that he's a damn good GM for this franchise. Sure, he drafted Charlie and Joey Graham but anyone other GM would get the same sort of caliber players at 9th and 14th pick. I don't get why everyone defends him. He should be gone...he's letting all of our best go without getting anything in return. The future does look bright for the Raps, but brighter if The Cack is gone.</div> Could you explain what you mean by the bolded sentence?
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Rob Babcock's less than optimistic outlook for the Toronto Raptors in the coming National Basketball Association season resulted in heavy criticism of the second-year general manager, from fans and media alike. Now, a player is expressing concern as well. Veteran Jalen Rose, never one to shy away from revealing his opinion, was shocked when he learned of Babcock's low expectations. "I've never been part of a situation like that, and I'm pretty sure I've never heard anybody in professional sports make a comment so negative that early in the season," said Rose, who is about to embark on his 12th NBA season. "Even the bad teams have optimism. You don't want to take away the optimism so early in the season. The Bad News Bears coach wouldn't even tell them that." Rose made his comments on Wednesday on the Best Damn Sports Show Period on the Fox Sports Network, where he is a regular contributor. The controversy erupted this week when Babcock said the Raptors would be fortunate to match the 33 wins of last season, when Toronto missed the playoffs for the third consecutive season. Babcock said the rough ride is to be expected. He added that the Raptors are entering just the second year of a three-year rebuilding program under his direction and that the club is committed to a youth movement to try to improve its fortunes. Babcock could not be contacted yesterday to respond to Rose's comments. Rose was Toronto's leading scorer last season, averaging 18.5 points a game. In an interview with The Globe and Mail on Wednesday, Babcock stressed that he has the Raptors on the right course for improvement and that fans will not be bored by the product on the court. This season, the Raptors will add three more rookies to the lineup: 6-foot-11 forward Charlie Villanueva, the club's first pick (seventh overall) in the June draft, from the University of Connecticut; Joey Graham, Toronto's second pick (16th overall), a hard-nosed, 6-foot-7 forward from Oklahoma State University; and Jose Calderon, a 6-foot-3, free-agent point guard who played for the past six years in the Spanish professional leagues. "To me, I'd be excited about watching this team and watching them grow and develop and understanding they might take some lumps early on, but you'll see these guys get better right before your eyes," Babcock said on Wednesday. "That's what we're selling, we're selling the future."</div> Source Here is an article on Jalen Rose's comments on the BDSS.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Second-year forward Matt Bonner, who signed a two-year deal worth about $4 million US over the summer to remain in Toronto, took Babcock's comments in stride. "I'm keeping the faith," Bonner said yesterday from the IMG training centre in Florida. "Maybe the experts look at us on paper and see (the inexperience). But I don't think a youth movement is any excuse to write us off. "If you put it all together, any team can have a surprise season and make the playoffs. That happens pretty much every year. And I think we can make the playoffs." Bonner added that he wouldn't have signed with the Raptors if he didn't believe that Babcock had the franchise heading in the right direction. "If you ask me, I believe we should go 82-0 this season," Bonner said with just a hint of laughter. "I'm a competitor. I would like to go 82-0. Realistically that probably won't happen, but last year there wasn't one game that I didn't think we could win heading into the game, and that's not going to change this year." </div> Source
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">"I've never been part of a situation like that -- and I'm sure I've never heard anybody in professional sports make a comment so negative that early in the season," Rose said. "Even bad teams have optimism. You don't want to take away the optimism so early in the season. The Bad News Bears coach wouldn't even tell (his team) that."</div> If jalen rose is so concerned about this team why is he pulling a steve buffery his comments are carteresque, very selfish and to the point but how come none of you are jumping all over him then look at what bonner had to say: <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">"I'm keeping the faith," Bonner said yesterday from the IMG training centre in Florida. "Maybe the experts look at us on paper and see (the inexperience). But I don't think a youth movement is any excuse to write us off. "If you put it all together, any team can have a surprise season and make the playoffs. That happens pretty much every year. And I think we can make the playoffs."</div> isn't this what should be coming out of a supposed leader's mouth like jalen rose!!! <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">"We still have a long way to go, but we have the guys here now who see what the plan is, and they understand it," Babcock said. "They realize that there's no cutting corners, that it's going to be a lot of hard work, learning to play as a team, doing things the right way ... Our guys are starting to get that and things are turning around." Babcock is optimistic that his rookies, Villanueva and Graham, together with young standouts Chris Bosh, Matt Bonner and Pape Sow, eventually will merge to become a championship-calibre team. </div> these are some other comments out of steve buffery's story and they look quite positive (babcock even used the word championship!) how come no light is shed on these comments...it seems like babcock and bonner have pulled off quite a stunt by keeping positive they have taken considerable pressure off the backs of the young players!!! pretty impressive and then jalen gets in the way and starts saying all that nonsense very unpofessional...your thoughts would be appreciated guys
Why is everyone hating on babcock do you want him to lie to the fans like last year...remember throughout the second half of the year "you know if the raptors win 10 games in a row they still have a chance to make it" or like how when the raptors had no chance of making the playoffs the fans were still being mis-leaded into believing there was hope.
There is too much anger in this thread, a lot of people seem to be quite stressed out about something that matters little to our lives. Babcock was being honest, the Raptors lost Yell, while practically the entire East got upgraded. We can't upgrade until we get some cap space.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting og15:</div><div class="quote_post">We have hope with our young guys, not for this season, but for later seasons, I just don't understand why their's always people that have to defend him like he's great or something. Seriously, he's not even a Top 20 GM in the league, so some people need to stop acting like he's some saviour. If we all ranked him right now, he'd probably average a rating between 5-6 out of 10, so it's not like he's superGM.</div> He's not a top 20 GM. But how many GMs in the top 20 are rookie GMs? Of course he isn't great. But he is the best we have had and at least he has a plan in place. Look at Grunwald. Did he actually have any plan in place? If he did have any, it was a plan of quick fixes. He loved to make trades for the sake of making moves and while some of those moves improved the team's record short-term, there was no long-term plan evident. The season ticket renewal rate was 83%, up from last year's 81%, so I think it is safe to say that most of the Raptors fans believe in Babcock's plan.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting VinKanaddy:</div><div class="quote_post">He's not a top 20 GM. But how many GMs in the top 20 are rookie GMs? Of course he isn't great. But he is the best we have had and at least he has a plan in place. Look at Grunwald. Did he actually have any plan in place? If he did have any, it was a plan of quick fixes. He loved to make trades for the sake of making moves and while some of those moves improved the team's record short-term, there was no long-term plan evident. The season ticket renewal rate was 83%, up from last year's 81%, so I think it is safe to say that most of the Raptors fans believe in Babcock's plan.</div>I don't know why all the hating is on Grunwald in the first place. Initially he re-signed the whole team that went to game 7 of the 2nd round of the Eastern conference playoffs. How was he to know that Vince would be so injury-prone. He put together a very solid team that went pretty far had it not been for Vince's graduation. How can you even say he only made moves for the sake of making them? Thats rubbish. As for the Rose trade, if not for Vince getting injured again we would have had a good team that would have made it into the playoffs. He also got Donyell Marshall in that trade as well. Who did we give up? Oh yeah JYD and Antonio Davis. Where are they now? And Babcock is not the best GM we have had. You don't even know how these transactions will pan out so you can't even say such things. It's good to be optimistic from time to time but right now is a time to be realistic. We suck. It sucks hearing it from your players but from the GM......it's kinda ***tty
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting CourtVision:</div><div class="quote_post">I don't know why all the hating is on Grunwald in the first place. Initially he re-signed the whole team that went to game 7 of the 2nd round of the Eastern conference playoffs. How was he to know that Vince would be so injury-prone. He put together a very solid team that went pretty far had it not been for Vince's graduation. It sucks hearing it from your players but from the GM......it's kinda ***tty</div> I wasn't hating on Grunwald. I was stating a rather obvious fact, that Grunwald did not have anything planned long-term. Keeping players like AD and JYD wasn't to make a championship, it was to try and keep the Raptors in the playoffs even if they got eliminated every first or second round. Doesn't that remind you of another team in Toronto housed under the same roof of the Air Canada Centre? Yes, you got it right. The Leafs, or should I call them the Treadmill Leafs? How many times have the Leafs made the playoffs? Almost every year for the past 4 decades or so. How many Stanley Cups have the Leafs won since 1966? Zero. They ain't going anywhere if they keep signing veterans just for the sake of making the playoffs. They're just going to be on a never-ending treadmill trying to reach for the Cup that is 5 feet away. Tell me now, would you rather watch the Raptors get eliminated in the first round of the playoffs for another 40 years or would you watch them suck (record-wise) for a year or two and have something special in the year 3 and on? It's just not worth it to make the playoffs just to be eliminated in the first round. It's not good for the position of the draft picks and it's not good for the rebuilding of the team. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">How can you even say he only made moves for the sake of making them? Thats rubbish. As for the Rose trade, if not for Vince getting injured again we would have had a good team that would have made it into the playoffs. He also got Donyell Marshall in that trade as well. Who did we give up? Oh yeah JYD and Antonio Davis. Where are they now?</div> Tell me then, what moves have Grunwald made that weren't for the sole reason of keeping Vince happy? There's a point. Yes, we would have made it to the playoffs if Vince, Rose and Marshall didn't go down to injuries at the same time, but what were the chances of us making any noise in the playoffs? Like I stated above, it's just not worth it to barely make it into the playoffs only to get annihilated by a team like Detroit or Indiana in the first round. Antonio Davis is in a good situation in Chicago where the team made the playoffs for the first time since 1996 and is only going to improve. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">And Babcock is not the best GM we have had. You don't even know how these transactions will pan out so you can't even say such things. It's good to be optimistic from time to time but right now is a time to be realistic. We suck. </div> Who was the best GM we have had then? Isiah Thomas? Glen Grunwald? I can say that he is the best GM we have ever had because of the sole fact that he has a vision in place and he knows how to make something out of the second round picks (something neither Thomas nor Grunwald could do) . Whether it will bloom or gloom will become evident given time. I wasn't being optimistic about this season or the next season. We will be near the bottom of the standings due to the fact that we're committed to playing the young guys over the veterans. I am, however, optimistic to watch the young guys gel and grow together as a team. Wouldn't you agree? I think majority of the Raptor fans who hold season tickets agreed with me.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">He's not a top 20 GM. But how many GMs in the top 20 are rookie GMs? Of course he isn't great. But he is the best we have had and at least he has a plan in place. Look at Grunwald. Did he actually have any plan in place? If he did have any, it was a plan of quick fixes. He loved to make trades for the sake of making moves and while some of those moves improved the team's record short-term, there was no long-term plan evident. The season ticket renewal rate was 83%, up from last year's 81%, so I think it is safe to say that most of the Raptors fans believe in Babcock's plan.</div> Their's only 30 GM's in the league, being in the Top 20 doesn't even make you in the Top half of the GM's in the league, it's not some great honour really. Danny Ferry is already looking like a Top 20 GM as a rookie, Joe Dumars was pretty good when he came in. Ernie Grunfeld of the Wizards as a rookie was good, John Paxson in Chicago, Larry Harris in Milwaukee, and Ainge in Boston.
4 out of the 6 GMs you mentioned ^ are former players maybe even those other two too but i'm not sure. So this puts the mindset if Erving would of been better than Babcock..
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Gotrunks226:</div><div class="quote_post">4 out of the 6 GMs you mentioned ^ are former players maybe even those other two too but i'm not sure. So this puts the mindset if Erving would of been better than Babcock..</div> Grunfeld played too, so that makes five. Harris wasn't in the NBA as a player or coach, seems to me he has been executive material for a while now. And by the way, having sat down and listened to Julius Erving talk specifically about his passion to run a professional basketball team, as well as his knowledge of front office wheelings and dealings, I can say unequivocally that Dr J will some day make a fine executive. It's just too bad the Raps didn't jump on him when they had the chance. He has also complained in the past of race being one of the factors keeping him out of the elite, and while I can't say for certain that it is one of the reasons, Babcock's incompetence makes me think that I can't say for certain that it isn't a primary reason.
Talk is cheap. How many years have we had to listen to Vince say he will work on his body in order to not get injured, only to be dissapointed? How many years of broken Liberal promises have we had to endure as Canadians? How many of the so-called leaders in the community, city, province and country spit some sweet-sounding words out of their mouth and never back them up? Let Babcock have his 3-years, which he stated in the beginning of his Raptors tenure is how long it will take for the rebuilding, and then decide whether or not he was a good GM. Charlie Villanueva and Joey Graham haven't played a single game as a Pro yet, Araujo is a 2nd year player and Mitchell is also coming off his rookie coaching campaign. Don't you think it's a little too soon to be jumping on the trigger? If you ask anyone I know, they'll tell me that I'm very impatient, so if I can wait, the more patient majority of you can wait too.
looks like we do have a chance <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Tyler Sherkin, of RealGM.com, believes that Babcock has the franchise moving in the right direction. "The long-term outlet is that the Raptors will be a perennial playoff team with a nice mix of youth and veteran leadership in a year or two," he said. "Sam Mitchell and Babcock are creating a team that will soon be fundamentally sound, hard-working on both ends of the flour and able to make some noise in the playoffs."</div> here is the link http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Basketball/NBA/T...210904-sun.html <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Chad Ford, a respected NBA columnist with ESPN, has predicted the Raptors, which tied for last in the Division (33-49) last year and missed the playoffs for the third straight season, will finish on the bottom in the Atlantic and will place 13th out of 15 teams in the Eastern Conference.</div> this is from the same article...man I am glad babcock prepared the fans for this type of onslaught that is common before the start of the season!
