he stacks up better then champ bailey statistically... Nate has 209 tackles, 54 assists, 1.5 sacks, 18 interceptions for 261 yards 4 touchdowns and 34 pass deflections. Not too bad at all, but if you compare them to champ bailey's first four years in the NFL they look even better: Champ has 239 tackles, 19 assists, 1 sack, 16 interceptions for 121 yards, 1 TD and 55 Pass deflections. to sum it up - that's 30 fewer tackles for Nate (playing in the leagues #2 D the last two years it's kinda hard to stay on the field when you're consistently forcing teams 3 and out), 35 more assists for Nate, a half a sack more, 2 more INTs for more then double the yards, and 4 times as many TDs - and Nate is not elite? Please. Plus he has never let anyone get more then 5 receptions on him in a game (he rarely gives up that many).
Ok this means what. Are you getting bored because we're sick of talking about the Bills. Clements is an elite type of player but he has played on pretty good defenses all his career. Not to mention early on his career he had Antoine Winfield playing on the other side as there #1 corner. So Clements has got his chances. The number I look at is Pass Deflections. I believe that is the most important "stat" for a corner. As for the word elite it depends what you consider. I am not to sure that there is an elite corner playing in the game today. Maybe Ty Law if he gets back to his normal capabilties but there isn't a big shut down corner. Every corner in TODAYS game gets lit up every now and then. Don't say Clements hasn't because he has. That's todays game. Clements needs to have at least one more season like he did last year to be considered elite. To me he is a top 5 corner in football but not the best.
thank you for proving that you DO NOT KNOW as much about the Bills as you'd like to have people on here believe (don't try to say anything other then that because by voicing an opinion on the Bills and calling yourself a football fan, you ARE trying to convince people that you know something about the Bills)- remember our 3-13 year - we had absolutely NO defense we ranked 30th that year and towards the bottom in nearly every defensive category (Gregg Williams' first year coaching us) Well guess what - our 8-8 year (the year after that - Drew Bledsoe's first year with us) we still had NO defense - half his career he played on a team with NO D - only in our 6-10 year did we get our D together. And last year, although we did finish statistically in the same place we did get better - as evidenced by the jump in turnovers, sacks, and scores. Notice that this kinda coincides with Clements hitting his prime? Antoine Winfield is half the cover corner that Clements is but with stone hands (see the tragically low INT #) Yeah, I acknowledge the fact that every corner gets lit up, but Clements only gets lit up against the Pats and Moss. He has shown he can for the most part hold his own against the leagues elite recievers (the only time he faced Randy Moss, he was only in his 2nd year and he still did enough to help us win - let's see how he does against him this time around) see his performance against Chad Johnson (who prior to our meeting was leading the league in receptions) where he held him to two catches for only 10 yards? You just can't stand to give the Bills any kind of respect can you?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tko51)</div><div class='quotemain'> You just can't stand to give the Bills any kind of respect can you?</div> Why should I. What have they done to earn respect. When they win a divsion title this year or a Super Bowl then I'll be with you.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Antoine Winfield is half the cover corner that Clements is but with stone hands (see the tragically low INT #)...You just can't stand to give the Bills any kind of respect can you?</div> Are you trying to pick fights? Kind of seems like you are. Regardless, Clements is a very good corner and has the stats to prove for it. However, there is the valid point that he was the #2 corner, and thus was playing more against #2 receivers when Winfield was playing along side of him. The knock on Winfield for his lack of INT's is valid to an extent...you have to remember that opposing QB's often would not throw towards Winfields side of the field because he is so talented. (It would be nice to have a stat of dropped INT's). I'm sure most of the fans here give the Bills respect...I know I do. Its statements such as "Antoine Winfield is half the cover corner that Clements is but with stone hands (see the tragically low INT #)" that make me wonder. What do I wonder? If Winfield were still with the Bills, would you feel the same way? I do have a question for you, so please, please answer it. Can you name 10 negative things about the Bills?
he was the number 2 corner because Winfield was more experienced (i think by two years) - Clements is hands down better now and would be matched up on the opposition's best WR while Winfield would be on the number 2 reciever if both were on the same team still.
Don't get me wrong, I like Winfield, and I was kind of upset to see him leave Buffalo (I partially blame Gregg Williams - the guy was a jerk who had no respect from the players). The guy can ABSOLUTELY HIT and is the best openfield pure tackler in the game and there is always room for someone like that on every roster in the NFL. I bet Winfield could play any DB position, but until he gets some hands, he's never gonna have big play capabilities.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (porky88)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tko51)</div><div class='quotemain'> You just can't stand to give the Bills any kind of respect can you?</div> Why should I. What have they done to earn respect. When they win a divsion title this year or a Super Bowl then I'll be with you.</div> When ever you want to admit that Buffalo would have had a better record then the Packers if they were in the same division feel free to. You're talking a lot of trash, yet you know your team is inferior.
I did kind of jump the gun with the Winfield is half the cover corner that Clements is, but Clements is noticeably better (Winfield is good too though).
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tko51)</div><div class='quotemain'>I did kind of jump the gun with the Winfield is half the cover corner that Clements is, but Clements is noticeably better (Winfield is good too though).</div> Fair enough...I'm not sure if I agree (I don't necessarily disagree, I don't know enough about Clements to agree or disagree), but the admission that you jumped the gun is fair enough. Back to the question, though, can you name 10 negative things about the Bills?
1. QB is an X factor 2. Our secondary could be in trouble if Troy Vincent goes down again - like last year when we started the year with Coy Wire as our FS (he singlehandedly lost us the Raiders game aside from us getting screwed by the refs out of a travis Henry TD that would have still won the game for us). 3. Willis McGahee hasn't proven he can go a full year as the starter. 4. the left side of the line although it looks like it's seriously improving in camp needs to show what it can do against some of the good DEs the Bills will face in the AFC East - still a question mark. 5. Our D is good, but it still had lapses last season where they missed assignments (like Coy Wire in the Raiders game where Jerry Porter got an easy TD) 6. I'm still concerned with the Pats being in our division (I KNOW we can beat them, but being able to and actually doing it are two different things. I can't really think of anything else - you'll have to settle for 6. Our LB depth is great, our punter is the best in the league and has been getting screwed out of probowl recognition (even more so since he's gotta punt in Buffalo's windy conditions) and it looks like the RB depth is pretty solid too although none of them can hold a candle to Willis.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tko51)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (porky88)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tko51)</div><div class='quotemain'> You just can't stand to give the Bills any kind of respect can you?</div> Why should I. What have they done to earn respect. When they win a divsion title this year or a Super Bowl then I'll be with you.</div> When ever you want to admit that Buffalo would have had a better record then the Packers if they were in the same division feel free to. You're talking a lot of trash, yet you know your team is inferior.</div> Again here is a cold hard fact. They aren't. So why does that need to be said. I am dead serious here. Do you come on this site do start fights. You like to stir things up a bit. Why should I say something that can never happen. Worry bout the AFC not the 2004 Packers. As for trash I have talked none at all. At least in my terms of trash talking. I have no reason to talk trash to a Bills fan this season unless we play in the Super Bowl but I guessing that isn't gonna happen. I'll talk some trash with BF1 or other North rivals. but it's a worthless case with you. You don't say ONE thing bad bout the Bills as if they are dead perfect. News they aren't. NO and I mean NO NFL Team is perfect except the 72 Dolphins in my mind. Right now the only team I respect in that divsion our the Patroits because of what they did. The Bills,Dolphins,Jets and yes the Packers and Vikings to are all tied for last place in the NFL right now. It don't matter unless you hold up the Lombardi Trophy. Thats why you need to look forward to this season not bring up stuff about last season. Like Chad Johnson got shut down. If we were in you divsion we would of had a better record than your packers. The only thing I've heard about this season that makes sense on why the Bills might do good is that JP has looked pretty decent in training camp but then you make him out to be the nest Brett Favre. So if you want some trash talking, talk to the Jets, Dolphins and especially the Pats fans. I am sure they would love to.
I didn't make him out to be the next brett favre - I just pointed out that he has drawn comparisons to him - along with Steve Young. If the Bills and packers played this year in the regular season, and you took the Packers in a bet against me, it would clearly be betting with your heart. Our D would almost completely shut down your O. and Our O would have fun with your D.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tko51)</div><div class='quotemain'>I didn't make him out to be the next brett favre - I just pointed out that he has drawn comparisons to him - along with Steve Young. If the Bills and packers played this year in the regular season, and you took the Packers in a bet against me, it would clearly be betting with your heart. Our D would almost completely shut down your O. and Our O would have fun with your D.</div> ha I guess We'll never know and thats why I don't care. Just worry about your bet with J-E-T-S. you no the one where the Jets will get sweeped off the floor this year by the Bills. Come on TKO your trying to cause an argument with me by saying the Bills are better than the Packers and I really don't care. Here is the Reason. The only game they play is in the preseason. So if they play in the Super Bowl which I doubt will happen then both teams must be pretty good. We're not even a week into preseason action and already the Bills will blow out the Pack. Good for the Bills then. Stop trying to cause fights over the internet and trying posting something that is un biased for ounce.
What the hell do you keep complaining about TKO, Clements is a top 10 corner, and i don't think anyone will disagree. Mcgahee is a top 10-15 back. Moulds is a top 20 receiver. Lee Evans will be a top 15 receiver. Losman is going to prove alot of people wrong. And the Bills defense is top 5. Why keep arguing with these people??? Some of them have no clue as to what other teams have to offer, so don't let it bother you.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bleedblk&gld)</div><div class='quotemain'>What the hell do you keep complaining about TKO, Clements is a top 10 corner, and i don't think anyone will disagree. Mcgahee is a top 10-15 back. Moulds is a top 20 receiver. Lee Evans will be a top 15 receiver. Losman is going to prove alot of people wrong. And the Bills defense is top 5. Why keep arguing with these people??? Some of them have no clue as to what other teams have to offer, so don't let it bother you.</div> Are you like his best friend??????? Top 20 WR's in football. 1. Randy Moss 2. Marvin Harrison 3. Terrell Owens 4. Torry Holt 5. Chad Johnson 6. Javon Walker 7. Hines Ward 8. Joe Horn 9.Mushin Muhammed 10. Andre Johnson 11. Derrick Mason 12. Reggie Wayne 13. Donald Driver 14. Issac Bruce 15. Michael Clayton 16. Eric Moulds 17. Rod Smith 18. Jimmy Smith 19 Drew Bennet 20. Roy Williams Now of all the rankings I've seen I have not seen Lee Evans in the top 20 at all. Hell here is USA Today's rankings http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nf...receivers_x.htm The only thing I see is accurate is that McGahee and Bills defenses. Outside of that we don't know. Like I said before Football is my LIFE and I do know what every teams have to offer. Saints and Bills both and I believe that its not gonna be pretty this season. What is pissing me off so much is that TKO seems to be all about trying to posts stuff that will get mine or panthers or J-E-T-S blood boiling so he can have a fight on the internet. Kind of Sick when you think about it.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (porky88)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bleedblk&gld)</div><div class='quotemain'>What the hell do you keep complaining about TKO, Clements is a top 10 corner, and i don't think anyone will disagree. Mcgahee is a top 10-15 back. Moulds is a top 20 receiver. Lee Evans will be a top 15 receiver. Losman is going to prove alot of people wrong. And the Bills defense is top 5. Why keep arguing with these people??? Some of them have no clue as to what other teams have to offer, so don't let it bother you.</div> Are you like his best friend??????? Top 20 WR's in football. 1. Randy Moss 2. Marvin Harrison 3. Terrell Owens 4. Torry Holt 5. Chad Johnson 6. Javon Walker 7. Hines Ward 8. Joe Horn 9.Mushin Muhammed 10. Andre Johnson 11. Derrick Mason 12. Reggie Wayne 13. Donald Driver 14. Issac Bruce 15. Michael Clayton 16. Eric Moulds 17. Rod Smith 18. Jimmy Smith 19 Drew Bennet 20. Roy Williams Now of all the rankings I've seen I have not seen Lee Evans in the top 20 at all. Hell here is USA Today's rankings http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nf...receivers_x.htm The only thing I see is accurate is that McGahee and Bills defenses. Outside of that we don't know. Like I said before Football is my LIFE and I do know what every teams have to offer. Saints and Bills both and I believe that its not gonna be pretty this season. What is pissing me off so much is that TKO seems to be all about trying to posts stuff that will get mine or panthers or J-E-T-S blood boiling so he can have a fight on the internet. Kind of Sick when you think about it. </div> Well right there at #16 is Eric Moulds. That's top 20 like i said. And Lee Evans WILL be, "WILL" you got that?? Will be top 15. So only thing you don't agree with me on is Losman. Which i don't balme you. He's unproven and pretty much a rookie. I'm just going off my knowledge of watching him at Tulane. I'm not trying to pick a fight. Like i said, i don't argue about shit i dont' know about.
