<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Raptors general manager Rob Babcock still is reeling from an article which ran in last Wednesday's Toronto Sun. Babcock told the Sun that, given the youthful nature of this year's team, the club will be hard-pressed to match last season's record of 33-49, a mark that kept the Raps out of the playoffs for the third straight season. Those comments created a firestorm of controversy. Although Babcock did not deny making the statements, he took issue of a headline over the story, which read: 'We've got no chance: GM.' The Sun stands by the headline, although Babcock still insists that it was misleading. "It created a lot of problems," Babcock said yesterday. "Players, like everybody else, read the internet, but they don't see the whole picture. That (item) created a lot of extra work hours for me, contacting the players." Babcock said he spent numerous hours explaining to his players he has not given up on them, and on the team as a whole. He reiterated the point yesterday that it will take some time for the Raptors, which are going through a youth movement, to reach the point when they can challenge for a playoff spot or an NBA championship. But the second-year NBA GM firmly believes his team is heading in the right direction. "I have a lot of faith in this team," he said. "It's simply a matter of we're building for the future." Babcock said yesterday he has been able to contact the majority of his players, adding that they understood what he was trying to say after discussing the issues with them. </div> Source
I think he was just too naive. Even though I storngly believe it was taken out of context, he shouldn't be this open-mouthed with our local media. They'll bite his ass off, and that's what Buffery did. As far as what he initially said, I don't have a problem with it really, because hate it or love it, that's what 95% of the people on this site were thinking.
The media in toronto is pretty stupid with the way they constantly twist things out of context. Its unfortunate these guys don't lose their jobs for such deceitful publications. Its obvious that Babcock didn't say he ruled them out from making playoffs. Just said that he could see them losing less games, because we lost Yell and got rookies.
hahaha he also said that he could'nt contact Jalen Rose man babcock is a joker a stupid GM who cant do ****
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting SkiptoMyLue11:</div><div class="quote_post">The media in toronto is pretty stupid with the way they constantly twist things out of context. Its unfortunate these guys don't lose their jobs for such deceitful publications. Its obvious that Babcock didn't say he ruled them out from making playoffs. Just said that he could see them losing less games, because we lost Yell and got rookies.</div> I see a lot of blame on the media lately concerning Babcock, and I've seen what you guys have provided. It seems that he didn't mean to say what he said in the blunt fashion that it was reported, but what was reported also wasn't untrue, he said some stupid things. I have trouble seeing why many of you Toronto fans continue to defend Babcock; he seems to do more harm than help to your team.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Schaddy:</div><div class="quote_post">I see a lot of blame on the media lately concerning Babcock, and I've seen what you guys have provided. It seems that he didn't mean to say what he said in the blunt fashion that it was reported, but what was reported also wasn't untrue, he said some stupid things. I have trouble seeing why many of you Toronto fans continue to defend Babcock; he seems to do more harm than help to your team. </div> Its because I think the guy has a long term plan not a short term one. His moves haven't been bad as of late. I think Hoffa was his worst mistake, but he was thrown into the draft with very little time to do research the draft and he probably was trying to get a quick fix at center for the Raptors, because he wanted to win now. Drafting CV31, Joey Graham, Roko Ukic, and Slokar Resigning Bonner and Pape Sow ie. trying to get Duhon looking into Mcleod chasing Jason Williams inviting Tabuse to training camp
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting PlaTsanity:</div><div class="quote_post">hahaha he also said that he could'nt contact Jalen Rose man babcock is a joker a stupid GM who cant do ****</div> actually he's very smart for saying that about jalen rose, by stating that in the media it makes jalen look as if he's talking ****
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting rumsomal:</div><div class="quote_post">actually he's very smart for saying that about jalen rose, by stating that in the media it makes jalen look as if he's talking **** </div> So by publically embarassing his player he's helped the situation how? It just leaves one more person that feels alienated by management. Think about what the first thing Babcock did when he came to toronto. He took away Vince's mom's parking spot. That pissed Carter off tons and sent the message that he was on the way out with the team. The guy comes out durring the season and doesn't try .. probably because after x number of years of sticking around while losing the toronto raptors go and get a gm that doesn't treat the star player like a star. Not that i think the way he played was justified or babcock's actions were the ultimate reason for him leaving but i think the message is this... the gm (along with the coach) is supposed to motivate his players to do well .. saying stupid things in the media about the team only works against the cause..
^^ LOL parking spot i like sam mitchell i think he's doing a really good job with the team while babcock..thats another story..
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting SkiptoMyLue11:</div><div class="quote_post">Its because I think the guy has a long term plan not a short term one. His moves haven't been bad as of late. Drafting CV31, Joey Graham, Roko Ukic, and Slokar Resigning Bonner and Pape Sow ie. trying to get Duhon looking into Mcleod chasing Jason Williams inviting Tabuse to training camp</div> I agree that getting CV3, JG and Roko out of one draft is a good. But I'm going to reserve full judgement until these guys actually play and their performance can be compared to guys like granger and green that we passed up. Trying to sign duhon, mceod, jw, and tabuse doesn't count as anything, it's good intention but not much else. Is anyone saying that the best move rod thorne made this summer was almost getting Shareef Abdul-Raheem. If babcocks plan is so long-term why can't the guy think one year in the future and at least put options on the contracts of his 2nd round draft picks. Now, instead we have to pay the free agent price for bonner and sow. It's good to know that he's pursuing free agents and getting some of our young players back from last year, but i think alternatively we could be seeing better moves out of this guy..
What he said about the team was bluntly stupid. I don't think he put enough thought before he made his statement, and it came out really wrong. We all know we don't have a good chance of making the playoffs, but noone has written it off just yet. There are always surprise teams and we could just be one of them this coming year.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting a13x:</div><div class="quote_post">I agree that getting CV3, JG and Roko out of one draft is a good. But I'm going to reserve full judgement until these guys actually play and their performance can be compared to guys like granger and green that we passed up. Trying to sign duhon, mceod, jw, and tabuse doesn't count as anything, it's good intention but not much else. Is anyone saying that the best move rod thorne made this summer was almost getting Shareef Abdul-Raheem. If babcocks plan is so long-term why can't the guy think one year in the future and at least put options on the contracts of his 2nd round draft picks. Now, instead we have to pay the free agent price for bonner and sow. It's good to know that he's pursuing free agents and getting some of our young players back from last year, but i think alternatively we could be seeing better moves out of this guy..</div> If you are a player's agent, would you prefer to have a team-option on a contract that starts at $385,000? Even with max raise, the player will be earning only $410,000. Would you prefer that or a one year deal that will let the player prove himself and cash out? You gotta remember that agents are in there for their share of money. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Mr.Wade:</div><div class="quote_post">What he said about the team was bluntly stupid. I don't think he put enough thought before he made his statement, and it came out really wrong. We all know we don't have a good chance of making the playoffs, but noone has written it off just yet. There are always surprise teams and we could just be one of them this coming year.</div> And this after I've written a fucking essay on the Rose thread. I really question some people's comprehension ability because Babcock said nothing remotly close to 'we have no chance'. He said it was going to be tough but it will all depend on how quick the young guys adjust. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting a13x:</div><div class="quote_post">So by publically embarassing his player he's helped the situation how? It just leaves one more person that feels alienated by management. Think about what the first thing Babcock did when he came to toronto. He took away Vince's mom's parking spot. That pissed Carter off tons and sent the message that he was on the way out with the team. The guy comes out durring the season and doesn't try .. probably because after x number of years of sticking around while losing the toronto raptors go and get a gm that doesn't treat the star player like a star. Not that i think the way he played was justified or babcock's actions were the ultimate reason for him leaving but i think the message is this... the gm (along with the coach) is supposed to motivate his players to do well .. saying stupid things in the media about the team only works against the cause..</div> How did Babcock 'embarass' Rose? No one else on the Raptors roster seem to care what Steve Buffery had to say, and if the young guys got the real message from Babcock I can care less of what Rose thinks. He knows his minutes are going to be cut, and he might lose his starting position to Graham, so it's perfectly logical for him to rash out at Babcock for something he did not say. Do you remember the Black Suit Dillema when Mitchell benched him? As for Vince's mom getting no parking spot, can you name any other superstars in the NBA who request a parking spot reserved for their mothers? Let alone any franchises that grant that request? Grunwald was Vince's puppet. If that pissed Carter off like you claim, he's still a boy, not a man.
Babcock definitely didn't say anything like what the headline advertised, but he should've been much more careful with his words, especially when talking to a tabloid like the Sun. I was looking at the Sun website today and you realize how much they take things out of context when you look at other sports headlines: "Red Card Shames England" : Wayne Rooney got a red card in a <u>league game</u>, and the Sun took it as an oppurtunity to write an article about how he had a red card in a match for England in a qualifying match, a couple of weeks ago. Somehow a booking with Man U has something to do with the whole of England. "A Big Pain for Big E" : Eric Lindros wondered why the Sun was making a big deal about a hard hit that a prospect made on him in training camp. Lindros later admitted that he understood why the younger players had to try their hardest in training camp, but the Sun made a headline about how Lindros is in a feud with the media. "Bluebomber Bombshell" : A Winnipeg coach resigned after he got into an arguement with players, other coaches, and the CEO. It had been pretty much accepted that he would be fired as soon as possible, but to the Sun this came out of nowhere. Even the headline "Babcock Making Ammends for His Comments" is misleading, because it suggests that the Sun was right in the first place. In reality, Babcock was taking exception with title of the article and clarifying his earlier quote, not apologizing. As you can see, the Sun is known for their ridiculous headlines. There isn't much substance in the actual articles, so it makes up by trying to grab the reader's attention, usually with exxageration. It thrives on controversey, and that becomes much more evident when you read the rest of the paper. As Toronto's GM, Babcock has been around these reporters for a year, and should've known to be much more careful with his words around Buffery.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting a13x:</div><div class="quote_post">So by publically embarassing his player he's helped the situation how? It just leaves one more person that feels alienated by management. </div> you forget it was jalen rose who opened his big mouth about a comment babcock didn't even make while all the other players discussed it with the manager in a civil way, and when trying to contact jalen he does not respond, how is it possible to alienate someone when you are trying to talk to them? good for babcock for trying and for bonner and mitchell who tryed to be positive and the rest of the raptors who majority are much younger than jalen but showed a lot more class by discussing things in private that is what a real team is all about, when training camp starts it will be obvious that the only person who alienated jalen is jalen himself. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Chutney:</div><div class="quote_post">Babcock definitely didn't say anything like what the headline advertised, but he should've been much more careful with his words, especially when talking to a tabloid like the Sun. I was looking at the Sun website today and you realize how much they take things out of context when you look at other sports headlines:</div> by now everyone knows that babcock did not say those things and hopefully most ppl realize that the sun sometimes resorts to trashy tabloid style reporting, what bothers me though is jalen rose is a raptor! and look at his response a team filled with so many youngsters and look at the leadership jalen shows by publicly blasting babcock without any effort in communicating with his manager or his team not so sure if jalen rose in the past has been a **** disturber but this time he has gone too far, totally forgets about the team and starts shooting off his mouth in his own trashy tabloid style
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting rumsomal:</div><div class="quote_post">you forget it was jalen rose who opened his big mouth about a comment babcock didn't even make while all the other players discussed it with the manager in a civil way, and when trying to contact jalen he does not respond, how is it possible to alienate someone when you are trying to talk to them? good for babcock for trying and for bonner and mitchell who tryed to be positive and the rest of the raptors who majority are much younger than jalen but showed a lot more class by discussing things in private that is what a real team is all about, when training camp starts it will be obvious that the only person who alienated jalen is jalen himself. :</div> I agree with you that jalen takes a big part of the blame for blabbing to the media about it before babcock did. I just think that rather than escalate the situation potentially he could have just talked to jalen privately about it and got it over with.... Even if he didn't talk to jalen yet there is no need to come out in the media in the manner he did and say "well I?ve tried to call him" as if to imply that rose is ignoring him. Even if that is the case ... he should just deal with that internally instead of through the media which has helped him so much lately. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting VinKanaddy:</div><div class="quote_post">If you are a player's agent, would you prefer to have a team-option on a contract that starts at $385,000? Even with max raise, the player will be earning only $410,000. Would you prefer that or a one year deal that will let the player prove himself and cash out? You gotta remember that agents are in there for their share of money. .</div> You could be right, but I?d think that given that they are 2nd round picks the raptors have the advantage in terms of naming contract specifics. Being too picky could mean no contact and another season in Europe which would really get players mad at their agents. Parking spot: Her having it completely pathetic .. as everyone else has pointed out ? but he expected it since he already had it. I think just to keep the guy quiet we should have just let it slide? carter?s a baby .. given .. but there are only so many guys that talented in the league so we could have put up with his antics to a degree.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting a13x:</div><div class="quote_post">I agree with you that jalen takes a big part of the blame for blabbing to the media about it before babcock did. I just think that rather than escalate the situation potentially he could have just talked to jalen privately about it and got it over with.... Even if he didn't talk to jalen yet there is no need to come out in the media in the manner he did and say "well I?ve tried to call him" as if to imply that rose is ignoring him. Even if that is the case ... he should just deal with that internally instead of through the media which has helped him so much lately.</div> that would have been ideal and i wish it happened like that but unfortunately i am pretty sure that babcock was asked the question about how his conversation with jalen went...what is babcock to say he has to state the truth because it is babcock's, the fans and raptors interest to keep jalen out of the spotlight especially after how vince carter was able to take advantage of the negative publicity and set the team up for a bad trade. now babcock has indirectly made jalen look like a malcontent even worse for our team, and if babcock had kept silent on the issue then it would appear that jalen had made a point and could be right <u>even worse</u> for the team so the lesser of the two babcock went for...in the future I think stating no comment on any issue concerning jalen will be understandable but for ppl to understand that in the future i hope we all realize what babcock is going through right now...if someone understood what i just said please let me know i think i just confused myself all over again
ya i see where you're coming from. He was asked the question so he had to answer it. Not sure exactly what you were saying in the middle there but i think your on to something
I really don't see how there are so many Babcock supporters. Just because he's the GM does not mean you HAVE to support his decisions and his actions. I don't support him but I just have to live with them until he's gone. I still cannot judge him until his supposed 3 year window comes up, and by god if he doesn't improve our team by the end of the 2007 off season he should be labelled one of the worst GMs of all time...
Okay, how the hell did Babcock NOT improve the roster? Read below: Grunwald's 2003-2004 roster: Antonio Davis (Traded for Jalen Rose) Jerome Williams (Traded for Donyell Marshall) - Retired Chris Jeffries (Traded for Roger Mason Jr.) - Not in the NBA anymore Vince Carter Chris Bosh Alvin Williams - Injured Rod Strickland - Not in the NBA Roger Mason Jr. - In Israel Jalen Rose Donyell Marshall Milt Palacio - Unemployed Michael Bradley - Unemployed Mengke Bateer - Not in the NBA Jerome Moiso - Not in the NBA Dion Glover - Not in the NBA Lamond Murray Greg Foster - Not in the NBA Morris Peterson Babcock's 2004-2005 Roster Chris Bosh Charlie Villanueva Joey Graham Morris Peterson Rafer Alston Jose Calderon Eric Williams Jalen Rose Aaron Williams Alvin Williams - Injured Rafael Araujo Loren Woods Matt Bonner Pape Sow Possibly: Jay Williams In 1-2 years: Roko Ukic, Uros Slokar How can you not see the improvements? The Vince Carter trade subtracts from Babcock's roster but the difference is more than made up for, by the $15 million in cap space we will be receiving plus Joey Graham and whoever we get with Denver's pick next summer. Vince Carter may be more talented than anyone on the Raptors roster currently, but do you think his value would be in excess of everyone Babcock brought on board? In other words, would you trade a mid-first round pick, Joey Graham, Charlie Villanueva, Rafer Alston, Jose Calderon, Rafael Araujo, Pape Sow, Eric Williams, Aaron Williams and the rights to Roko Ukic and Uros Slokar for just Vince Carter? I know I would never do the trade.
