Well considering half those guys up there are draft picks i don't see why grunwald couldn't have come up with a better draft performance. Asides from the one year we got michael bradley i think his picks have been solid. Trading carter has nothing to do with half the picks we have up there. So we get JG and a late first rounder next year.. But we also had extra salary dumped on us in the form of the two williams and zo's kidney ... For the rosters listed above it's hard to really compare the two. Grunwald would have filled the roster with draft picks similarly. Matt Bonner was drafted by Grunwald so he can't really take credit for that. Alston's contract is the same style as the one's the Grunwald signed (long term deal for a player that may end up being really great .. or really horrible.). So in that regard it's hard to say that Babcock or Grunwald are any better or worse at signing contracts. I just feel at this point we can't say with confidence that Babcock can do anything better than Grunwald did ... and we fired him .. so we should at least be equal opportunity and get rid of the guy before he becomes the second babcock to ruin a franchise.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting a13x:</div><div class="quote_post">Well considering half those guys up there are draft picks i don't see why grunwald couldn't have come up with a better draft performance. Asides from the one year we got michael bradley i think his picks have been solid. Trading carter has nothing to do with half the picks we have up there. So we get JG and a late first rounder next year.. But we also had extra salary dumped on us in the form of the two williams and zo's kidney ...</div> Please, don't tell me you just said that. Michael Bradley is just a peck of sand when you see Grunwald draft guys like Alex Redojevic (12th overall) or Kareem Rush (20th overall, traded along with Tracy Murray for Chris Jeffries). Grunwald had no scouting ability whatsoever outside of top 10 lottery picks. Tell me, besides Bonner, who did Grunwald draft in the second round - ever since he became the GM in 1997 - that even made the league? I'll give him Bonner even though he wasn't the one who drafted him - he traded for him - but in his 8 year tenure here who else did he get from his second round picks? Names like Remon Van de Hare aren't going to cut it. What extra salary? Carter's contract ends in the summer of 2009 if he exercises his player option on the last 2 years, but the Williamses and Mourning come off the books in the summer 2006/2007 respectively. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">For the rosters listed above it's hard to really compare the two. Grunwald would have filled the roster with draft picks similarly. Matt Bonner was drafted by Grunwald so he can't really take credit for that. Alston's contract is the same style as the one's the Grunwald signed (long term deal for a player that may end up being really great .. or really horrible.). So in that regard it's hard to say that Babcock or Grunwald are any better or worse at signing contracts.</div> No, Grunwald would have gotten one player out of the 4 picks he had. He would most likely have picked Gerald Green with the 7th pick and rest of his picks would've gone to waste like he has shown during his stay in T-dot. Alston's contract is very reasonable compared to what other starting PGs of his caliber are getting paid. He only makes $3.5 million-per-year while guys like Jamaal Tinsley and Kevin Ollie get paid twice as much. Babcock didn't give into Bonner's agent's BS did he? He kept Bonner for exactly what he was worth - $1.6 million / year. He also did not overpay Peterson. He let Mo go out and prove that he was worth $5 million / year and when he did get an offer from the Hornets, Babcock matched it. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I just feel at this point we can't say with confidence that Babcock can do anything better than Grunwald did ... and we fired him .. so we should at least be equal opportunity and get rid of the guy before he becomes the second babcock to ruin a franchise.</div> He already has shown that he is better than Grunwald at two things - scouting and negotiating contracts. Why get rid of him now? He clearly stated that his plan would take 3 years when he took the job and I believe he should be given the time before we evaluate whether he did a good job or not.
Two years in a row we have faced huge criticism for our top 10 first round selections. I don?t' see how this is defendable at this point until CV and JG actually play a regular season NBA game.. Two years in a row we go with unconventional logic when choosing our top selection and last year we got a guy who is 6?11 and has the wingspan of mugsy bogues not to mention possibly the worst court sense ever.... He plays so badly that the 48th pick in the draft who is supposed to be extremely raw outplays him in pretty much every aspect. Flash back to after the draft when Babcock runs around saying they drafted Arujo because he's "NBA ready" and "they drafted a guy that can start right away." Now he uses the excuse that he needs some time to develop. How could you possibly (as a gm) be more off with your logic. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting VinKanaddy:</div><div class="quote_post"> Why get rid of him now? He clearly stated that his plan would take 3 years when he took the job and I believe he should be given the time before we evaluate whether he did a good job or not.</div> Just because he says his plan is going to take three years doesn?t mean that we should give him that whole time frame. I don?t think with the amount of progress he?s showing right now that we really owe it to the guy to keep him around for that long. I think CV, JG etc .. will all be improvements to our team .. but i think another GM could have made selections that were as good or better. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting VinKanaddy:</div><div class="quote_post">Alston's contract is very reasonable compared to what other starting PGs of his caliber are getting paid. He only makes $3.5 million-per-year while guys like Jamaal Tinsley and Kevin Ollie get paid twice as much. </div> Good point .. Tinsley and Ollie probably wouldn't drop a weight on you in your sleep though. But if it's saving the raps 3.5 mil a year sam mitchell will just have to wear a cup
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting a13x:</div><div class="quote_post">Two years in a row we have faced huge criticism for our top 10 first round selections. I don?t' see how this is defendable at this point until CV and JG actually play a regular season NBA game..</div> I see where you are getting at, but Steven A. Smith isn't exactly a mastermind of basketball. He's had it in it for Babcock ever since he drafted Araujo and it just showed that he didn't know anything about Villanueva as a player. Just wait until the pre-season and we'll see. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Two years in a row we go with unconventional logic when choosing our top selection and last year we got a guy who is 6?11 and has the wingspan of mugsy bogues not to mention possibly the worst court sense ever.... He plays so badly that the 48th pick in the draft who is supposed to be extremely raw outplays him in pretty much every aspect. Flash back to after the draft when Babcock runs around saying they drafted Arujo because he's "NBA ready" and "they drafted a guy that can start right away." Now he uses the excuse that he needs some time to develop. How could you possibly (as a gm) be more off with your logic.</div> I admit that drafting Araujo was a mistake on Babcock's part, but he deserves a break on the selection due to the fact that he was on the job for barely a week when the draft came up. It wasn't just his idea to grab Araujo - Wayne Embry, Alex English and Jack McClosky also deserve equal, if not more, criticism. Araujo does have a good passing ability for a guy his size, it's just that he didn't have the quickness or the stamina to beat his man down the court for positioning on D. That should improve though, as he apparently is in a much better shape (around 265 lbs). Who says you HAVE to go by the rules when it comes to drafting? If everything went according to the mock drafts, Granger, Green and Graham would have been gone in top 10 and Roko Ukic would have never dropped to our laps in the second round. Babcock never gave excuses for Araujo not panning out immediately. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Just because he says his plan is going to take three years doesn?t mean that we should give him that whole time frame. I don?t think with the amount of progress he?s showing right now that we really owe it to the guy to keep him around for that long. I think CV, JG etc .. will all be improvements to our team .. but i think another GM could have made selections that were as good or better.</div> Why not? The signs are positive and if Isiah Thomas can keep his job as a GM / President, Babcock holds every right to execute his plan. If he changed his word and said it was going to take three years right now, then yes he doesn't hold much credibility but he stated it when he became a GM and he deserves a chance. If you just got a job and your boss fired you after one week, before you could even contribute anything, would you be happy? I think not. What better selections? There were no obviously better players available at 7 and 16. Villanueva is a better player than Green and will be a better player for at least 2-3 more years (and that's IF Green pans out) and Graham brings what we needed: Defense and freakish athleticism. Granger scared away not only the Raptors, but at least 10 teams picking ahead of us due to his history of knees and back injuries. It showed when he was unable to participate in the summer league because the injury that bit him back in January still hasn't healed. Jonathan Bender, anyone? Villanueva and Graham both bring versatility - something the Raptors lacked ever since we had both Tracy McGrady and Vince Carter on the court - because each of them can play three positions. Now, this is an assumption on my part, but if Villanueva can play SF effectively and Graham can play the SG effectively, the rest of the league had better watch out. Villanueva needs to be motivated and pushed, and there is not a better coach than Sam Mitchell (well.. maybe Larry Brown but based on how he treated Darko Milicic, I wouldn't count on him to push along Villanueva) who would be able to do that. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Good point .. Tinsley and Ollie probably wouldn't drop a weight on you in your sleep though. But if it's saving the raps 3.5 mil a year sam mitchell will just have to wear a cup </div> True enough,, I really believe Rafer will thrive in a good environment though - a.k.a Jalen Rose trade. His problem is that he is extremely emotional and he wants to win at all costs, which leads to confrontations with lazy players. His behaviour with the Heat was very good because he was surrounded by good people.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting VinKanaddy:</div><div class="quote_post"> True enough,, I really believe Rafer will thrive in a good environment though - a.k.a Jalen Rose trade. His problem is that he is extremely emotional and he wants to win at all costs, which leads to confrontations with lazy players. His behaviour with the Heat was very good because he was surrounded by good people.</div> Ya true enough ... the phto earlier this year with rafer looking away and jalen yelling at him with vince standing around in the background pretty much sums it up ... lol I think that it's easy to forget that for the first 10 games or so of last season rafer alston looked like an absolute steal outplaying every point gaurd he came up against. After that everything went downhill.... but at least we know he is capible of playing at a high level.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting a13x:</div><div class="quote_post">Ya true enough ... the phto earlier this year with rafer looking away and jalen yelling at him with vince standing around in the background pretty much sums it up ... lol I think that it's easy to forget that for the first 10 games or so of last season rafer alston looked like an absolute steal outplaying every point gaurd he came up against. After that everything went downhill.... but at least we know he is capible of playing at a high level.</div> Yea you are definitely right, he was outstanding at the start of the season. As well he was terrific for the Heat the year before. However he was playing with Vince who was as useful as Lammond Murray, and Jalen who was jacking up shots. So he really only had Bosh as a teammate to pass to, who also cared about playing their best.
