Dunleavy or Peitrus??

who do you think deserves the starting spot??

personally, i would let MP start to begin the season. i think he deserves it after how he played at the end of last season. granted, he did serve as a hell of a spark plug off the bench. we just need some !@#$ing D on the perimeter! hopefully having dun as a 6th man will motivate him to step it up a little and meet the high expectations lots of people had for him...

also, how do you think foyle and bedrins should split the minutes at the 5 spot? 50/50? i'm actually liking bedrins much more than i thought i would...considering he was the youngest guy in the league last year, once he got some mintues, he really impressed me.

what do you guys think?

 

Its hard to say. Initially I am going to say we go with the lineup that served us best last year and unfortunately I think it was baron, jrich, dun, murph and foyle. I hope the last 3 get challenged very seriously by Pietrus, Diogu and Biedrens. Lets roll with what we had last year, if they play less than .500 for the first month or so then lets start making some adjustments as we see fit. I mean if Murph is playing OK, but Diogu is lighting it up for 20 mins per game, then make Diogu the starter or something...

 

I'm a huge MP fan(got his jersey) but I dont think he should start in the beginning. He needs to come in hungry and earn it. I really want to see him more aggressive in rebounding and overall consistent effort. After watching the Suns game a couple of times I think he will surprise people with his ability to create opportunities for teammates.

But even though I dont think he should start there is no way in hell that Dfish should be gettin 30mins and MP getting 20. Especially if Dfish is getting his ankles broken and making terrible decisions. MP is critcized, and rightly so, for some of his decision-making however Dfish by far made the most mistakes offensively and defensively. I really hated how Bdiddy, Jrich, and Fish played with each other. Fish should be giving Bdiddy rest the majority of the time. If we do make the playoffs that's where his real value is. Bu the won't help us any if he logs close to 30 mins a game and is worn out at the end. Save him for the playoffs. IMO Fish should be getting 15-20, Pietrus 25-30 at SG and SF. Gotta play Monta around 5 to give him some experience. I really hope by the end of the year Monta will be closer to being our backup pg. I can't stand the Fish and I still dont understand why Monty played him so damn much. Under 40% fg, defensive liability(doesn't even try to fight thru screens), bad shot selection that when he missed which was often, fueled the break for the other team. I dont hate him as a person or even as a player really but you gotta use him intelligently and not put him in a position to keep hurting our team. He deserves the yellow light(shoot when open), not the green light(shoot whenever).

Aside from who starts or how many minutes they get I would really like to see the three-pronged attack of Bdiddy, Jrich, and MP play a lot. That lineup has the chance to be very very exciting, how would other teams try to matchup with us. Give Biedrins some time with these 3 as well. For the PF it could be Murph, Zarko, and Ike. Still the key to this season remains getting stops and quality possessions. And to me Fish fails miserably in both areas.

 

For next season, I think Dunleavy should start. Pietrus can be a energy from the bench, and he was playing greatly with Davis (21 mils with 12 pts with game). In contrast, I just don't see Dunleavy as a bench guy. He is a player who follow the flow, so he won't give you a scoring punch, and you don't expect him to be a defensive stopper to begin with. One is capable of playing a 6th man role, and one is not. And, Mullin and Monty likes Dunleavy. So, I think Dun will start. But yeah, those Dunleavy-Pietrus issue should be dealt soon, and it should start with NOT giving Dunleavy an extention this summer.

For Biedrins, I don't think he is ready to take a big mins yet. Also, since he is capable of picking up 6 fouls in 6 secs, I don't think he will get a lot of mins, even if he tries to...

 

I'm pretty much with all of you guys on that one there. Dunleavy is a nice fit with the current starting 5, but Pietrus is just so loaded with potential and he's pretty effective on defense against guards. I hope we don't lose Pietrus by locking up Dunleavy right now. I hope Mully keeps all options open so we can decide what we need to do to get results before looking at everything with rose colored glasses before the season has started.

BTW welcome 707to805.

 

Pietrus will outplay Dunleavy and become the starting SF by the All-Star break....I GUARANTEE IT BABAY!

 

I love Pietrus but why do people think he can play the SF position?

I personally think Pietrus is going to be better but he's only 6'6. Don't bring up Artest because he outweighs Pietrus by 30 lbs. If you think Dunleavy gets tossed around just wait until Pietrus goes up against Melo, Odom, Harrington and company. I don't want to give Pietrus another excuse to end up with the injury bug and he has been injury prone.

Our SF position is pretty much set in stone. Dunleavy. He's not as tough as I'd like him to be and isn't a good help defender but is the smartest player on the floor. I haven't realized this till lately but the day Mullin traded Antawn, Mike was given the job of SF. Dunleavy looked good playing next to Baron & JRich. If you heard Mullin on KNBR today, it sounds like Dunleavy's staying around.

If Pietrus cracks the starting lineup, it'll be as a 2 guard. I would think Pietrus would have to play some terrorizing defense to make JRich expendable. The positive is that under any circumstance, we are covered concerning 2 guards. JRich goes down, Pietrus can fill in right away.

 

Here is the thing. Dunleavy is 6'10" and Pietrus is 6'6". Since, neither players can post up, their height only matters when it comes to defense. And, there is no way we will put speedy SF against Dunleavy and both Richardson and Pietrus are picking up Dunleavy's liability. Problem is that Dunleavy isn't even guarding stronger, taller and bit slower SF like Melo or even Dirk when we go small. Yes, Dunleavy has ideal size for SF and Pietrus doesn't. But, what's the good for ideal height when you can't utilize it for good use? Guys like B. Wallace or Foyle are undersized to play center, but they are doing better job than Fuller or any other 7 footer stiffs.

Certainly, Dunleavy compliment our starters nicely, especially with Davis. But, so is Pietrus. As a matter of fact, Pietrus benefitted the most with arrival of Davis, since he bumped up his scoring from 7 pts to 12 pts with less than 2 mins increase in PT. Also, Dunleavy is a role player, and role player should support their stars. Then, there shouldn't be a reason that our star Richardson should spend his energy to guard tougher defender, while we hide Dunleavy as much as possible. If Dunleavy has offense power like Mullin or Jamison, I can certainly understand why we should hide Dunleavy. But, that certainly isn't the case, and with Dunleavy, Richardson has to do double duties in both offense and defense end. There shouldn't be a reason that our star is picking up role player's liability. In contrast, Pietrus picks up tougher match up, and while in different style, Pietrus' offense production is similar or even better than Dunleavy.

And the biggest reason is that given our financial situation, it would be very tough to keep both Dunleavy and Pietrus, and it's most likely that we have to choose one. Dunleavy is a nice role player to have, in other word luxury. However, Pietrus has a star potential. And, there is no way for me to choose Dunleavy over Richardson either.

Yes, I heard Mullin interview today, and Mullin never hesitated to show his love toward Dunleavy, which isn't really a surprise, and because of that I recognize our chance of keeping Pietrus is not good to say the least. My only hope is that Mullin will come to some sense and don't resign Dunleavy this offseason...

 

i agree with custodian & kwan...i just don't want to lose MP over all this. how many good players have the warriors let go, only to see them become great? if MP doesn't get the minutes here, he'll get them elsewhere, and i am really sick of seeing ex-warriors finally reaching their potential after leaving oakland. as much as i loved jamison, arenas and hughes when they were warriors...it was hard to see them be the highest scoring trio in the league - as WIZARDS. you guys definately have a point about the height difference, but like kwan said, dunleavy RARELY utilizes his height. mullin does seem to be in love with dun, so lets just hope it doesn't cost us MP. BTW, anyone know his contract details?

@custodian...thanks for the welcome
@san quinn...nice to see some people with good taste in music!!

 

Upsidedownside makes a good point about weight difference. Pietrus has the true 6'6" + long wingspan and length to stand pretty far away from a shooter and still contest shots on an average body 6'8 guy (that means no huge wingspan or go-go gadget arms).

I think that it's pretty important to have the weight discrepency lowered between our matchups and the opponents because most 6'8 forwards (especially the allstars) are taught to post up smaller defenders like a power forward should and I don't think Pietrus can defend that when he's lighter than 6'4-6'5 Richardson. Peja can post up, Carmelo can post up, Rashard Lewis can post up, and I think Lebron can post up. Small guys who see some action at small forward like Quentin Richardson, Bobby Simmons, and Corey Maggette... These guys all weigh 230 or more and can do the same things.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I think Dunleavy does a bit better job defending somebody in the post because of textbook positioning, but Pietrus does a better job defending a dribble penetration because he can react quicker. So either way it's like we need both because neither has the power or the speed to defend a 6'8 or 6'10 small forward that does have both.

Like Kwan already mentioned, Dunleavy plays like a role player, but Pietrus has the chance to be both a star and the type of player that can support star players like Baron Davis and Jason Richardson on defense because of his versatility guarding the two guard spots in addition to handling some forward. There's very few true 6'6 guys that can move that quick laterally and throw in a quick burst of speed from a standstill. Plus, he's got heart and aggressive nature, some good basic skill, and the body to give us a type of Kobe Bryant type player. I just think MP's the real deal sort of like how others and I thought Redd was going to be an awesome player even though he was behind Ray Allen on the Bucks.

Now it would be nice to keep Dunleavy because he does a lot of damage at some weird positions that you'd think he'd do even poorer at like Power Forward and Point Guard. 20 point/20 rebound game at point guard or something and that was against Jamal Tinsley too. The abuser totally got abused! Go Dunleavy!

And btw np, 707to805.

 

I saw several times when Pietrus was unstoppable,really exploding. Lets say the matchup is a middleweight 6-10 f with average quicks. MP can treaten the 3-then blow by him to the hoop-which we saw last year. On the other end the bigger guy is not losing MP. He's at best taking a contested shot over a good leaper who likes to play D...and Foyl lurks inside to get blocks in exactly these situations. Dunleavy did not often outplay the 6-9,6-10 SF's he matched against. He seemed to do surprisingly well if the matchup was a slower widebody PF or a much shorter PG. Mike does many things fairly well but nothing really good,he has court smarts-yet not that instant sense of just where to be and what to do that seperated guys like Bird or Mullin from MD.

I don't see Mike D having the level of interest around the league that will force us to pay a huge salary to keep him-and then face the Lux tax to keep Pietrus and others. Likewise I'm a bit dissapointed that that lack of interest also means less trade value if Pietrus and Zarko really rise and we are thinking to deal Dunleavy.

Dunleavy and Pietrus are,at this point,young and improving and what shows opening day-for each-may be a step beyond where they were at seasons end,so who improved more is yet to be seen. Zarko can even be a dark horse in the race,and an injury can alter the situation as well. At least we are not talking about maybe we should try to get Devean George to plug a desperate gap.

 

Im not as well-versed with the financial aspects of running a team but hearing Mully say that Dunleavy deserves big money worries me. First of all what kinda negotiating is that? Making it waaay too easy for Dun's agent to demand a big contract. But aside from that if we give Dun the big contract that means we have:

Bdiddy
Jrich
Dun
Murph
Foyle
Fish

who all make very good money. Is there any left for anyone else? And if those are our top 6 players how far does that ever really take us? I guess my big problem is with that frontline. How can we commit for the next 5 years or so of a frontline of Dun, Murphy, and Foyle? We're not going to be competing for anything special with that lineup. Do we have the money to keep or sign anyone else half decent? Kwan? Anyone? We need some long-term vision here. Our lack of foresight has already cost us some bad contracts and soon may cost us some players down the road? If Dun gets his big money like Mully says the vultures will be out soon. Bye bye Pietrus and Zarko.

 

I think anything much over the MLE is too much for Dun. If that is $5m per year I would not do much more than that for Dun.

 

When did Mully say Dunleavy deserves big money? I missed that. I think Dunleavy's length helps him get up and down the court and shoot over shorter players, whereas Pietrus has to fight to slash to the rim to score. They're both solid players, Pietrus has a great upside. I honestly believe Dunleavy has the potential to be this teams glue for many years to come. If he and Davis click the way they were at the end of the year, and we can get a solid defender/post player at the 4 (Beans/Diogu?) then Maybe Dun's the guy. Pietrus seems to me to be JRich's eventual replacement. But who knows.

 

From the KNBR website http://www.knbr.com/instantReplay.html in case people missed the knbr show with Chris Mullin as guest

http://24.104.40.88/knbr/0915mullin1.mp3

BTW, CohanHater I too feel Pietrus might be just as good as Jrich someday or better. He's just so darn rawww

 

Maybe this thread could be Jason or MPeet. When Dunleavy and Pietrus are in the line-up the ball moves up and down. Isn't Pietrus a natural two. His size and athleticism are perfect for the two. Really though Pietrus is our best sixth man. I've said it before that I believe if Pietrus starts then we loose some explosive energy and scoring coming off the bench. I love Pietrus being our sixth man and hope we can keep him around for a few more years. He will be the anchor of the second unit. Baron makes Pietrus a much better player. Pietrus is not a good decision maker. Baron takes that away. Bdiddy can get Pietrus the ball where he needs it to score. I still like Dunleavy's IQ on the court and I hope he's made progress and will be more agressive with the ball this year.

Bring on the Season!

 

Mullin never said Dunleavy will get "big money".

I'm guessing he'll get a bit more than Foyle. The only way Dunleavy isn't our starting SF, we would have to improve the position. Trade for someone like Peja, Marion, Artest. I'm sure Mullin explored those options. It sounds like he's settled on Dun.

Pietrus can look incredible but I think it would be a waste to play him out of position. His best nights defensively, he was playing 2 guards. Kobe and Redd remember.

Play both Pietrus and J-Rich this year. If Pietrus starts to amaze, Trade Richardson in a package. If he doesn't, keep Richardson and deal Pietrus. It's a tough situation to be in but there's no rush to deal anyone immediately like Spree. We'll get good offers.

In conclusion: Dun is a roleplayer but he's going to stick around. I think he'll have a Bobby Simmons type year and the NBA is so over inflated his contract may come out undervalued. The kid's had a bullseye tattood on his forehead for 3 years. JRich and Baron will be in the spotlight and Dunleavy will have no pressure.

What is concerning is that Mullin is going to put Foyle, Murphy and Dunleavy on the frontcourt. That's the least athletic front court in the league.

 

If Mullin gives Dun a 9+ mils per year, I am calling for his head, because he doesn't seem to have a clue about accounting and future planning, and he is VP of this ball club. I have to say I was bit shock to hear that Mullin didn't know how many 3's Davis was shooting or he didn't think that was a problem. It is very early to assume and it's not that big deal to not remember those stats, but combining with his spending habit without any concern about future luxury tax or number of contract years, I have to wonder whether Mullin is really good with numbers.

Why is playing Pietrus along with Richardson a waste of talent, when we played Richardson/Pietrus line up for quite some time? And, how can some people think about trading Richardson and his 12 mils per year salary, which is one of only two not-so-overpaid contracts? Also, are you ready to eat Dunleavy and another soon-to-be-another-overpaid-contracts? Richardson is the only legit weapon besides Davis, who can pump out 24 pts per game, improved every year, and he didn't even hit his potential. So what if Pietrus may not be able to meet his full potential as SF? Richardson-Pietrus defense line up is already far better than Richardson-Dunleavy line up, and Richardson-Pietrus offense line up has a potential to be one of the most dominating line up as well. Kitchen knief may not be the best tool to peel an apple. However, it still is a better tool then a wooden knief, which looks like a fruit knief. If Pietrus' not-so-reached potential due to playing SF is better than Dunleavy, it's ideal to keep Pietrus, instead of Dunleavy.

And, this is our finaicial situation. And, it's not good to say mildly.

This year's caproom is 49 mils, and I believe luxury tax line will be drawn at 62 mils.

Currently we hold 5 long term contracts; Davis, Richardson, Murphy, Fisher and Foyle.

Davis: average about 15 mils per 4 years.
Richardson: average about 12 mils per 6 years.
Murphy: average about 10 mils per 6 years.
Foyle: average about 8 mils per 4 years
Fisher: average about 6 mils per 5 years.

You may say Richardson gets 9 mils instead of 12 mils this season, and it's true because of 10% salary increase. But, that's only the bad news. Our financial situation gets really bad at later years, and that's the time when our players' salary exceed above their average salary, leaving lesser room for other players. Picking up semi-decent contract without lossing our current contract is also out of an option as well.

Their 5 contracts takes about 51 mils for next 4 years, leaving 11 mils to deal with rest 10 men roster, which is basically impossible. In other word, it puts Cohan to eat some luxury tax. Mullin said that we can put Dunleavy's salary to our financial situation. Yeah, that's true... if you plan to let basically every young players on our roster. Given our financial situation, it's basically impossible to resign both Dunleavy and Pietrus. Zarko is most likely gone, unless he wants to work for peanuts. And, it would be tricky to resign Biedrins as well. In other word, some sort of financial dumping is needed as soon as possible, and preferably from Fisher and Murphy.

The biggest problem is that we need to win as much as possible, and it hurts to lose our overpaid talents, such as Murphy, Foyle and Fisher. But, if we keep them for the sake of winning, our incoming financial problem can destroy entire team...