Dunleavy or Peitrus??

I agree. We have Davis under max dollars, JRich signed to 71, Murphy signed to 60, Foyle to 40 and Fisher to the MLE. All logic would point to Mullin waiting on to sign Dunleavy. It won't play that way.

If we never signed Murphy, Foyle and Fisher would you still be this adamant about waiting on Dunleavy? I really think Dunleavy's deal looks better next to those contracts. He serves an important balance on this team. Jim Barnett has lost almost all professional credibility when he praises Mike on every little thing but half of those things Mike does are important. Those intangibles won't come from the volatile personalities of Pietrus & JRich.

When you factor:
-Court Savy
-Bball IQ
-skillset
-production after Baron Davis' arrival.
Dunleavy looks good to keep around.

Would I give him 5 years 50 million like it looks like Mullin will do? No. One could argue, well why don't we just get a veteran to serve the same intangibles? We'll sign him and go from there. Well most of those guys are going to want to play for championship calibur teams. Not only does Mike offer those things but he showed glimpses last year of looking consistent.

Pietrus could be a stud but he could also wind up becoming Desmond Mason. We gotta wait and see how he plays this season. He has more growing up to do.

My main logic for trading one of our two guards is to improve our frontcourt. Big men take the longest to develop and Andris is still a year away. Taft has some good potential but I'm not expecting anything now. Diogu seems solid but if these guys don't pan out and we're stuck with Murphy and Foyle how can we upgrade our frontcourt? Davis is untouchable, Dunleavy is a glue player (won't get anything better than Murphy)...who's left? Richardson or Pietrus.

Richardson/Pietrus packaged with Murphy and a 1st rounder would get us a better big man. Mullin said he'd make a trade at any point to improve the team, he's known to take risks.

I wouldn't too much about the luxury tax though. If Mike is signed, dead weight will be traded by the deadline or next offseason.

 

One more thing.

Pietrus gives you a bigger bang for your buck than Dunleavy but Dunleavy was more helpful to Baron than Pietrus. Pietrus alienated his teammates at times with his erratic behavior. Of course Pietrus didn't do this on purpose but he's just wild.

Dunleavy made Baron's job much easier. If you remember that long eastern conference road trip Dunleavy set up Baron better than anyone. Open looks and when Baron drew double teams, Dunleavy spaced the floor perfectly so Baron could pass and get out of trouble and Dunleavy kept the ball moving.

As the year ended, Baron praised Dunleavy much more then when Baron originally got on the team.

BTW: You said you were into video games. Did you see Nintendo's new controller? Crazy...

 

I really don't buy into Dunleavy's intangibility and high IQ is that important to this club. Dunleavy had that aspect all along from the day he was drafted. But, why did Dunleavy decide to make his presence felt after Davis was traded? It's not because we found his high basketball IQ all of sudden, but it's because he finally shot better and score more. I never felt that his all around game is enough to impact the game. If not, we should have felt the team going down when Dunleavy is at the bench. Yes, he does make nice play here and there, and I can see his high basketball IQ. But, if those aspects doesn't impact the game much, it really doesn't matter at the end. Besides, his liability on defense hurts this team far more than high basketball IQ aspect helping this ball club.

If we didn't throw those money to guys like Fisher, Foyle or Murphy, I would feel much more comfortable keeping Dunleavy, because not only I like Dunleavy as a player, we can also keep Pietrus. I always describe Dunleavy as a 'luxury', and if we can afford 30 inch flat TV, sure why not? But, with our financial situation, it's basically impossible to keep both guys. If that's the case, I would definitely keep what we have to keep instead of luxury item. Also, here is another issue. Currently, Dunleavy may help this club more than Pietrus. But, this team is not a championship material, and if we maintain our current roster, we will eventually hit the wall at some point. If that's the case, I will definitely keep raw diamond instead of a pearl, just because of trading value.

Also, I disagree that Dunleavy fits better with Davis then Pietrus. Certainly, Dunleavy was benefitted by Davis, and that's why he shot like crazy. After Davis, he averaged about 14.5 pts with 50% from the field and 45% from 3 pts in about 32 mins. But, Pietrus was in a sense, mini Stoudmire for Davis, a player who can't do too much but can do certain things very well. After Davis arrived, Pietrus bumped his scoring from 8 pts to 12 pts, shot 50% from the field and about 38% from 3 pts while basically receiving same mins. And, before Davis, Pietrus shot sub 40% and around 32% from 3 pts, so you can see how Pietrus clicked with Davis.

But we really don't know what they will do in full season. That's why I strongly wish that Mullin will decide everything in next offseason, instead of overpaying Dunleavy this season. Pietrus can certainly become Mason ver.2. But, there is also a chance that Dunleavy won't maintain his hot streak and go back to his former invisible self. Plus, there is absolutely no reason for Mullin to give Dunleavy an extention. I mean, even Stoudmire didn't get it yet, so why Mullin wants to give Dunleavy an extention now? Didn't he learn any kind of lesson with Murphy's contract? Why not play some hard ball. like how Bulls did to Curry and Chandler? Let other teams offer Dunleavy some contract, and if it's reasonable, just match it at next year. I never understand why Mullin wants to do finish now, especially when our financial situation is such a horrible state, and that's why I have to question Mullin's ability to do accounting and future planning.

Here is a problem with trading our existing pieces. We are in serious financial situation and even if we trade our existing pieces like Richardson, Pietrus, Dunleavy, Murphy, for quality big man, we are still in same financial problem, because we want to keep that big man, and in order to match the salary, we have to take similar contracts in return. Therefore, we are not helping ourselves in incoming financial crisis. Also, exactly which big man can we get? Package like Pietrus/Murphy and picks probably won't fatch all star big men. If we get less than all star big men, we already have Murphy in here. Also, why would any team want to trade their quality big man with max contract, when you receive Murphy's long 10 mils per year contract? If we don't trade Murphy, then we will face absolute salary crisis, because we committed at least 25 mils on two big men.

Then, can we dump our salaries, like Fisher or Murphy? That's also very hard, because their salaries are just too big to be traded. If they have 3 or less years remaining, I can see some possibility, because they still can play. But, since they have 5 and 6 years remaining, we have to give up awful a lot to give up those guys. You have to remember that we gave Jamison away for absolutely nothing in return, and we got Davis for nothing in return, because NO wanted to dump salaries. Neither Murphy nor Fisher are their levels, so we have to compensate quite a bit. Although it's pre CBA era, in order for Suns to take Outlaw's 6 mils contract, Olando had to give up unconditional draft pick, which became Marion. Dumping salaries are far harder then people usually think. With new CBA, it's not too far fatched to imagine that we may waive Murphy, if Diogu can be better one.

Of course, we don't mind us paying luxury tax. Problem is that we are not the one who writes a check.

Mullin inherited number of talents, and he also added number of talents. But, it would be sad to see many of them leaving only because of quite poor salary management. Overpaying is somewhat understandable, because bad team must overpay players. However, because he signed/collected everybody with long term contracts, we have nobody who's contract ends in next 4 years. Therefore, he provided zero financial flexibility for the future market.

Mmm... are you talking about Nintendo's new generation console? If so, I haven't seen it yet, since I am pretty much PC/PS guy. PC for Starcraft and Counter Strike, and PS for some games and DVD stuff...

 

The reason I said Pietrus is this... JRich is underpaid if he graduates to the all-star team this year. And Pitrus has 6th man of the year candidate written all over him. If both Play well (and Dunleavy improves) then there's a chance that JRich can be bundles in a blockbuster deal, Which I'm not necessarily condoning. My point is this, there are a ton of pieces to this puzzle. If Mully plans on keeping the core guys together, then he should find a way to move Fisher/Murphy soon. Otherwise, he better plan on putting together a series of trades a-la Don Nelson in 1 year. Either way, I think the Warriors should be a solid team for years to come. I'm hoping for the 1st scenario obviously, because I've grown to really like Davis, Dunleavy, JRich and Pietrus. Who really knows what Mully has in mind though.

 

I think there's a general consensus between all of us speaking, that we do need the impact player that can fit into the Warriors starting lineup now and can transform it into the squad we envision later (tougher defense, tougher offense, versatility, more trips to the line, a player that can finish inside over big players). No matter what happens to any of our wing forwards, swingmen, we need to hold onto the guys we think will have the most impact in the league and to our team, which is our newly drafted center and power forwards. If Diogu is a regular 20/10 guy or Biedrins is a double double machine that is any similar to what Tyson Chandler or Jermaine O'neil do, we'll be like who cares about Dunleavy or Pietrus or Zarko. Our biggest problem is our power forward position is not the most competitive in certain areas (although good for a struggling team such as us) and our center spot is just plain one dimensional and lousy.

So when I said "impact" player, I meant both in the context of the team and the league. We're talking about getting a guy that is going to set the tone on offense and defense, is great starting or off the bench, and won't damage the chemistry we have going. I believe chemistry will not be a problem with a guy without Dunleavy and with Pietrus, because we've done both better and poorly with Dunleavy as starter and Pietrus playing major minutes next to Richardson and Baron Davis. IMO, Dunleavy doesn't set the tone or create shot opportunities the way we needed it before Baron Davis was added. The only way we could possibly find an edge over most NBA defensive teams was to break somebody down or post up and we know Jrich couldn't handle the ball that well and Dunleavy doesn't break defenders down enough or post up enough using his size. We've also tried playing major minutes with Richarsdon and Pietrus on the floor and it worked okay as long as Piety wasn't the ballstopper when it was our turn to shoot.

The thing I love about Dunleavy is his skillset would make him a dangerous player if we moved a lot more off the ball as a team, but since we don't do that, it's like he's being under-utilized and his talent wasted. We tried bringing in Coach Montgomery to shape the way our guys play ball by not standing around waiting for something to happen, but it doesn't work. Old habits just can't die or that's the team we'll always be unless guys who lead by example step up and start talking. What do we do?

It seems as if there is a hidden experiment that has failed a bit or is about to fail with regards to our offensive game and how we create shots without a dribble penetrator. The reason I say "about to fail" is that we don't want to be premature about the system Mully tried to install for Dunleavy/Murphy last year to create offense for players that could not create for themselves or break down defenders off the dribble or even post up. I just don't see either of those two as guys that will really help us long term in the areas we need help the most, which is now defense and playing more physical in the post so that we have at least 50% shot in the paint and we can draw more touch fouls. However, they still are needed since we also have problems with accurate distance shooting, rebounding, and making the extra pass. Now I know we need their shooting because Baron Davis, Jason Richardson, and Mickael Pietrus are all dreadfully streaky shooters, but they are the only ones that can really create their own shot opportunities because of the edge in physical ability they have against most opponents. JRich ain't the best dribbler, but he's physical and can shoot over most guys from midrange (probably thanks to Calbert Cheaney's tutelage) and Pietrus ain't the best ballhandler, but he's still quick with the ball than most guys in the league and he's got a lightning quick release.

Anyway, I just see Pietrus as much more the impact player than Dunleavy is at this point because he brings us more of an offensive mismatch than Dunleavy. Dunleavy simply doesn't use his 6-9,6-10 frame enough or he can't break down defenders with his quickness or use that size to post up on other players. Between the two players, Pietrus and Dunleavy, who is more willing to be daring in changing the way teams play us on defense? Pietrus definitely has more balls to do the daring similar to Fisher, but less disappointing in results because he's got more talent in shooting in transition and break down defenders. Pietrus would also better support Baron Davis and Richardson defensively by focussing energy and playing the toughest player in the opposing backcourt, in addition to shooting 3's, driving, getting to the line like Dunleavy would sometimes be hesistant about if there's no floor spacing or he's expecting the Princeton style of off the ball movement to happen before him. The only thing I don't like about Pietrus, is I think Dunleavy truly has the best chance of making somebody like Baron Davis or an inside player like Diogu a lot better because he recognizes cuts and backdoor plays a lot sooner and can shoot and has the floor spacing to drive if either Baron or an inside player can draw double teams. (Sorry I had to emphasize this so that my arguments wouldn't be over-simplified into "Pietrus is more athletic and Dunleavy isn't" when it's really not the case. I really do like Dunleavy, but Pietrus is a future stud that I see supports our current backcourt and would be great in a 3 guard rotation).

J-Rich will put up points and he'll often score like a forward, it makes sense to me that since Baron and Jrich will command the ball a lot, Pietrus needs to be the supporting player that can capitalize on moving off the ball, but can also be effective with the ball and definitely running the floor on a break. Nobody can stay with this guy if he's playing the slower guys and he can tire an opponent out.

Chemistry wise, I could see Pietrus fitting in adequately because it's not like we've played much without the Jrich/Pietrus combo out on the floor. We've gone with it several times and Pietrus was a factor off the ball, with the ball, and could shoot from distance both set or off the dribble. Granted, he put up a lot of forced shots, lacked a midrange game and made some bad decisions about what he was going to do, rather than react on the fly, there were also the times he shaped the game because players could not guard him or predict what he was about to do. If Dunleavy could or would drive more and create opportunities for himself at the line, matchup with at least one guy on defense or play aggressively all throughout the game, the choice to upgrade the small forward position with a shooting guard, Pietrus, would be less ideal than it already sounds.

I would love to keep Pietrus' raw talent, fearlessness and heart for this team, even if out of position at starting small forward, because I see this guy as a rare lockdown defender on any guard position that can also do other things like drive the ball, shoot 3's, rebound, and block shots. In time, he could slightly be as affective as Dunleavy in moving the ball once he gets comfortable and more experienced.

 

Cr2 you're gonna get carpal tunnel from your postings and the season has even started! I agree that if Diogu or Taft blows up we won't be talking about Dun and Pietrus. The only slight problem I have with Pietrus starting is that there are three guys Richardson, Foyle and Pietrus who don't handle well or make the best basketball decisions. I don't think the small forward position is a problem. We are sitting pretty with Dun and Pietrus in our rotation. Our problem is as you stated early "Inside scoring and defense". Murphy is not the answer and Andris is just to dam raw. And like you say if we get any inside scoring/offensive rebounding from Diogu/Taft/Biedrins then the team wins more games. I am convinced that Dunleavy is better as a starter.

 

[quote name='upsidedownside7']Mullin never said Dunleavy will get "big money".

To clarify Tolbert asked Mully if there were willing to give Dun big money and if they could afford it and Mully said "yes" and "yes". Now "willing" is not the same as "deserve" so I'm sorry about that. But that's the point Mully should only be willing to pay what Dun deserves. But it seems like he's not understanding that the differences between "willing" and "deserve". After listening to this interview Dun's agent must be salivating. Im not too optimistic about this contract, all signs point to Mully getting shafted again. All he has to do it wait till the season is over. All the questions will be answered after this season. The big money he's "willing" to pay now won't be any less than the contract he would sign at the end if Dun blows up(which is not going to happen). A huge Dun contract will mean for sure we aint winning a championship for at least 5 years. I didn't like the Jrich contract at first but he's definitely won me over. But if this goes through with big money the Warriors now have over-inflated contracts for 4 players - Fish, Foyle, Murph, and Dun. If those are 4 of our 6 most highly-paid players for the next 5 years we are in big big trouble.

 

Yes, I am probably typing way too much, but I guess I should keep it to three lines at the most so people don't hurt their eyes. I say forget Pietrus or Dunleavy because big men are more important and harder to find, so let's worry about Forward/Center, Andris Biedrins, or one of the power forwards like Ike or Taft who may suddenly blow up. The BDiddy, Jrich backcourt is fine and if we get some quality scoring/defending star center and power forward tandem, finding the small forward to tie it together will be easy.