WHich active players do you think are for sure in the hall of fame and who have a shot but are not a lock? For sure: Shaq Kobe Iverson KG Duncan Jason Kidd Nash Have a really good shot: Dwayne Wade LeBron Yao T-Mac Gary Payton Have a shot: Nowitzki Amare Ben Wallace Vince Carter Okay that last one was a joke.
You have Gary Payton as only a really good shot?? He's a freakin shoe-in for the hall of fame. Just as much as Jason Kidd, Iverson, and Nash. The Hall of Fame isn't really terribly exclusive as far as only winners go in or anything. It's like recognition for perennial all-stars.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting phunDamentalz:</div><div class="quote_post"> Vince Carter Okay that last one was a joke.</div> To me the Hall of Fame has become a joke. It's become a way for these old coaches, owners, and managers to buy themselves a legacy. You've got people like Kay Yow, women's basketball coach at North Carolina State; Chick Hearn, Lakers announcer; Fred Zollner, helped to oversee a BAA and NBL merger; Earl Strom, referee; etc. sharing the hall with players like Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and Magic Johnson. I like that you mentioned Jason Kidd though. For someone who is #4 all-time in APG, 0.2 behind Oscar Robertson and ahead of Isiah Thomas, he get's no respect as far as legacy is concerned. Not to mention that he's #10 all-time in SPG, a 7 time All-Star, 5 time First Teamer, 4 time Defensive First Teamer, an Olympic Gold Medaler, and is only the 4th player in NBA history (Stockton, Cousy, Robertson, Kidd) to have three consecutive assists titles. Most importantly (to me at least), Jason Kidd is #4 all-time in triple doubles behind Oscar Robertson, Magic Johnson, and Wilt Chamberlain; and he's about to pass Wilt Chamberlain. He should also have an MVP award, but that award is becoming a joke too. Anyway, I think it's undeniable that he's a future Hall of Famer.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I like that you mentioned Jason Kidd though. For someone who is #4 all-time in APG, 0.2 behind Oscar Robertson and ahead of Isiah Thomas, he get's no respect as far as legacy is concerned. Not to mention that he's #10 all-time in SPG and He's also a 7 time All-Star, 5 time First Teamer, 4 time Defensive First Teamer, an Olympic Gold Medaler, and is only the 4th player in NBA history (Stockton, Cousy, Robertson, Kidd) to have three consecutive assists titles. Most importantly (to me at least), Jason Kidd is #4 all-time in triple doubles behind Oscar Robertson, Magic Johnson, and Wilt Chamberlain; and he's about to pass Wilt Chamberlain. He should also have an MVP award, but that award is becoming a joke too. Anyway, I think it's undeniable that he's a future Hall of Famer.</div> I agree with you. He has done many things, and I haven't heard something like "Jason Kidd will be in the Hall of Fame" He deserves it and if you doesn't get in than the Hall is joke.
Thats right, Jason Kidd is a lock for all i'm concerned. He is also perfect example of everything a point guard should be in my opinion. I don't consider nash a lock in, he's only really won 1 mvp award and participated in a few all-star games yes? I'm not too sure on what nash has accomplished, but i'm sure its far less compared to kidd. GP should be a lock in no doubt. I would like to know why you'd consider lebron and wade having more of a chance than amare? Lebron has some very nice all-around stats, wade too and he defends better than lebron. But amare is a monster offensively, no1 one can stop him dunking in their face. Even if scoring is all he can do, he does it very well and i'm pretty sure there are one-dimensional scorers on the hall of fame. I really think the HOF isnt exclusive enough. Anyone think Webber will make it?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting NaKz:</div><div class="quote_post"> Anyone think Webber will make it?</div> His career averages are impressive: 20.9 ppg, 9.3 rpg, and 4.7 apg, but his legacy (1 All-NBA First Team, 5 All-Star Games, #32 ppg all-time) isn't as impressive as a guy like Jason Kidd's. I do think that a lot of people are quick to forget his early career because of his choke jobs and his failures in Philadelphia though, just like people forget that Glenn Robinson and Alanzo Mourning used to be great players because they didn't finish out their careers as great players. I'd personally put him on that "Have a shot" list. Although, I think the Hall of Fame should definitely enduct the Fab Five (Webber, Rose, J. Howard, King, R. Jackson; University of Michigan) as a group; they revolutionized the game.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting RuN WiT iT:</div><div class="quote_post">Winning an MVP should basically lock up a HOF entry for you...</div> I agree with you. Before a lot of people start jumping on Steve Nash for not having a full career full of MVP-like success, I want to point out that there are players in the Hall of Fame who only played three or four seasons of professional basketball. There are also players in the Hall of Fame like Dave Cowens, who only had one MVP season, a few All-Star appearances, and an overall just above average career in an NBA that had yet to merge with the ABA; that's basically Steve Nash's story, minus the ABA bit.
Since when is Nash a shoe-in? Career averages of 13 points and seven assists a game, a couple of All-Star appearances, no rings and one MVP award. I don't think he's HOF worthy yet, before last season people would have laughed at the mere suggestion. I think you need more than one season to change that.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Sir Desmond:</div><div class="quote_post">Since when is Nash a shoe-in? Career averages of 13 points and seven assists a game, a couple of All-Star appearances, no rings and one MVP award. I don't think he's HOF worthy yet, before last season people would have laughed at the mere suggestion. I think you need more than one season to change that.</div> Since when? Since he won the MVP, that's when. I think the MVP should be like an automatic invitation to the hall. It's true that he hasn't had the best long-term success, but the Hall of Fame is not necessarily a place for the players who have had the best careers. In fact, there are lots of people in the Hall of Fame who have never played professional basketball in their life. How can you say that Dave Cowens is justified as a Hall of Famer yet deny Steve Nash his right to make it in?
I never said Nash doesn't deserve to make it one day, I said I don't think he's a shoe-in, especially when the thread starter listed Gary Payton as only a good chance.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Sir Desmond:</div><div class="quote_post">I never said Nash doesn't deserve to make it one day, I said I don't think he's a shoe-in, especially when the thread starter listed Gary Payton as only a good chance.</div> I think that both he and Payton are "shoe-ins". The NBA likes to enshrine novelty acts; the old players, the first woman player, etc. Because of that, I think that winning the MVP would be an automatic ticket into the hall, and if not, then the voters are hypocrites. There have only been 26 MVP's in the NBA's history, and Steve Nash is one of them. He's also top 30 in career APG, so it's not like his whole career until this season was a wash, because he ranks over some greats like Maurice Cheeks, Lenny Wilkens, Jerry West, and Larry Bird in that category and will probably pass Gary Payton and John Lucas by the time he retires.
I forgot Jermaine O'Neal. He has a shot based on all-star appearances and career numbers. if shaq didn't go to miami it would have helped him though. Reason I put LeBron over Amare is LeBron has an all-round offensive game that the NBA likes a lot, like Magic, Oscar etc. Plus the fame will help. <font color="Red"><font size="1">Please don't double post --- VC</font></font>
Reason I put LeBron over Amare is LeBron has an all-round offensive game that the NBA likes a lot, like Magic, Oscar etc. Plus the fame will help.
if amare continues the way he is progressing put him up 2 catorgories higher and if tmac leads the rockets to a championship anywhere in the near future put him and yao in there
Ben Wallace? A HOF player? I don't thnk so. Sure he's a beast on the glass but he is totally one dimensional and can't do anyhting else. I think you should wait and see how the rest of VC's career plays out before you call him a joke for the HOF. If your going to throw guys like Ben Wallace in there then I think Ray Allen should be considered to. He's a better player than Ben Wallace so why not consider him, and please put Gary Payton as a sure Hall of Famer. Also, I don't see how Yao has a really good shot at the HOF. Sure he's a 7'5 monster, but he hasn't proven himself in the league and has not lived up to the hype he was given coming out of China. Yao has to win something before he's even considered with guys like Shaq, AI, and even VC for that matter.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting playmaker14:</div><div class="quote_post">Ben Wallace? A HOF player? I don't thnk so. Sure he's a beast on the glass but he is totally one dimensional and can't do anyhting else. I think you should wait and see how the rest of VC's career plays out before you call him a joke for the HOF. If your going to throw guys like Ben Wallace in there then I think Ray Allen should be considered to. He's a better player than Ben Wallace so why not consider him, and please put Gary Payton as a sure Hall of Famer. Also, I don't see how Yao has a really good shot at the HOF. Sure he's a 7'5 monster, but he hasn't proven himself in the league and has not lived up to the hype he was given coming out of China. Yao has to win something before he's even considered with guys like Shaq, AI, and even VC for that matter.</div> because if they didnt put Yao in the HOF, then they would lose the Billion chinese people that have supported the NBA and have League pass subscriptions. Money speaks more than a HOF, when if comes to David Stern.
Hall of Fame? I agree with Voodoo Child,the Hall of Fame should be reserved for players and coaches only. For sure Hall of Famers playing(or coaching) now- Shaq Kobe Iverson(must win a 'chip) KG(must win a 'chip) Duncan Larry Brown Should make it- Robert Horry Rasheed Wallace Steve Nash(must win a 'chip) Ray Allen(might get ripped off like 'Nique)
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting phunDamentalz:</div><div class="quote_post">WHich active players do you think are for sure in the hall of fame and who have a shot but are not a lock? For sure: Shaq Kobe Iverson KG Duncan Jason Kidd Nash Have a really good shot: Dwayne Wade LeBron Yao T-Mac Gary Payton Have a shot: Nowitzki Amare Ben Wallace Vince Carter Okay that last one was a joke.</div> i hope the joke was you putting nash as a for sure and GP as a have a good chance, nash should be closer to have a shot, 3 all stars and a questionable mvp isn't close to what GP has done
