<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">This is you kids problem. How can it be about "individual" accomplishments, but be a "team" game? A great player not only has to step up his game, but make his teammates better also. This is where Iverson fails. He isn't much of a team player. He'll continue to score 30pts a game, but the Sixers will always be around 500. That's why I can't give him the green light. Winning has ALOT to do with it.................</div> Ever heard of something called impact? Iverson's completely changed the game. I don't care if you believe he's inconsistent, inefficient, or a selfish player anymore. I've grown past debating about that stuff with you. But you have to realize that since Iverson's been in the league, he's changed it. No longer do you see Stocktons but rather the new breed of scoring point guards like Marbury, Wade, or Francis. You rarely see true playmaking point guards nowadays with only just Nash, Kidd, Knight, or Williams standing out. He's practically altered the playing field of the NBA- something that really can't be shown on the stat sheet or records. I can go on and on about how Iverson effects Iguodala or Korver positively but that'll just be a waste of time since you can't see it my way on that stuff. Bottom line, when Iverson leaves the game, you can bet that he's left his mark on the league, ring or not, winning or not.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Rock4life:</div><div class="quote_post">I'll tell you why..........because they all consistently competed for a championship. Stockton didn't win a ring, but he gave his team a chance almost every year he played. The Sixers are mediocore. Most of the East is mediocore. Anytime you can get in the playoffs with a below 500. record, that's medicore. AI had one great year in which made it to the finals, but other than that, the Sixers have been average. If your going to the Hall Of Fame, I would think how your team played would factor in. Iverson can win 25 scoring titles for all I care, but aslong as the Sixers aren't competing for a ring, then he shouldn't be in the Hall Of Fame. He's going to have to expand his game, and become more efficient. Until then, he doesn't belong......... This is you kids problem. How can it be about "individual" accomplishments, but be a "team" game? A great player not only has to step up his game, but make his teammates better also. This is where Iverson fails. He isn't much of a team player. He'll continue to score 30pts a game, but the Sixers will always be around 500. That's why I can't give him the green light. Winning has ALOT to do with it.................</div> First off who you calling a kid? Also you always talk a lot, is they?re any stats that backup what you actually say? I have yet to see you post any. Compare Allen's stats to those of other hall of famers, also if those hall of famers have rings compare the team around them, to the players Iverson has had throughout his career at his side. I don't think you get the point I'm trying to make, when it comes to wining basketball games, yes it is a team game. But when it comes to awards and that such it doesn't matter if your team is good or not. Awards are not meant to glorify a team, but to glorify an individual. Don't you get that? It makes sense, the best teams when championships, the best players win MVP awards and go into the hall of fame. If the hall of fame was about how good your team was, then we they nominated they wouldn't nominate single players but that entire team. That seems like that?s the way you see it, and that doesn't make sense. Name three players who are top 3 all time leaders in scoring and all time in steals per game. Also if AI is so selfish and doesn't make his team better, then how in the world was he third in total assists this season? I also can already tell you one player he makes better, Andre Iguodala. Sure his team hasn't won a title yet, but how much does that matter when it comes to AI's individual accomplishments and why he shouldn't be in the hall of fame? Karl Malone and John Stockton are going yeah, but those two had each other, AI has never had a player he can say the same of. You never know though, maybe AI and Chris could turn out to be their own little tandem their selves. But I know one thing; you cannot deny statistical history, in which AI is top three in two major categories.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting B-22:</div><div class="quote_post">First off who you calling a kid? Also you always talk a lot, is they?re any stats that backup what you actually say?.</div> I don't need stats to prove he ain't really a team player, just watch the Sixers play, you'll see. Besides, his best attribute is his scoring, which is obvious when you've lead the league in shot attempts the last 5 years <div class="quote_poster">Quoting B-22:</div><div class="quote_post"> Compare Allen's stats to those of other hall of famers, also if those hall of famers have rings compare the team around them, to the players Iverson has had throughout his career at his side.</div> That cop out is getting so old. The Sixers have tried putting other scorers with Iverson, and it didn't work. I know Iverson is your favorite player, but let's not be in denial. We ALL KNOW that the Sixers purposley put those scrubs around Iverson so nobody will complain about him throwing up so many bricks. Webber has only be there a half a year, and there were reports of him speaking about Iverson's shooting habits. So that should speak for itself.................... <div class="quote_poster">Quoting B-22:</div><div class="quote_post"> I don't think you get the point I'm trying to make, when it comes to wining basketball games, yes it is a team game. But when it comes to awards and that such it doesn't matter if your team is good or not. Awards are not meant to glorify a team, but to glorify an individual. Don't you get that? It makes sense, the best teams when championships, the best players win MVP awards and go into the hall of fame..</div> You seem to not understand..... the individual awards are only half of it. His team isn't very good. That's a reflection on him and his playing style. On a bad team, just about ANYBODY can put 30pts a game. It's not the fact that he ain't gotta ring, its the fact that he can't take his team to the next level. With his play style, your going to have alot points. That's a given. But a Hall Of Famer can contribute without taking the most shots. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting B-22:</div><div class="quote_post"> I also can already tell you one player he makes better, Andre Iguodala.</div> lol.....what about the other 13 players on the roster. My conclusion is that the league has seen many scorers in it's history. There are plenty of players that aren't in the Hall Of Fame that were better players that AI. I know he's very popular among kids, and Sixers fans, but the fact remains that most of all the Hall Of Famers pretty much had all around games. The Hall Of Fame is a tough league to break. When comparing AI to other HOF guards, he just doesn't stack up. I would take Isiah, Calvin, Archibald, or Magic over AI any day. Would you?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Rock4life:</div><div class="quote_post">I don't need stats to prove he ain't really a team player, just watch the Sixers play, you'll see. Besides, his best attribute is his scoring, which is obvious when you've lead the league in shot attempts the last 5 years That cop out is getting so old. The Sixers have tried putting other scorers with Iverson, and it didn't work. I know Iverson is your favorite player, but let's not be in denial. We ALL KNOW that the Sixers purposley put those scrubs around Iverson so nobody will complain about him throwing up so many bricks. Webber has only be there a half a year, and there were reports of him speaking about Iverson's shooting habits. So that should speak for itself.................... You seem to not understand..... the individual awards are only half of it. His team isn't very good. That's a reflection on him and his playing style. On a bad team, just about ANYBODY can put 30pts a game. It's not the fact that he ain't gotta ring, its the fact that he can't take his team to the next level. With his play style, your going to have alot points. That's a given. But a Hall Of Famer can contribute without taking the most shots. lol.....what about the other 13 players on the roster. My conclusion is that the league has seen many scorers in it's history. There are plenty of players that aren't in the Hall Of Fame that were better players that AI. I know he's very popular among kids, and Sixers fans, but the fact remains that most of all the Hall Of Famers pretty much had all around games. The Hall Of Fame is a tough league to break. When comparing AI to other HOF guards, he just doesn't stack up. I would take Isiah, Calvin, Archibald, or Magic over AI any day. Would you?</div> You say he isn't a team player? I want to know how so? Other 76ers fans can back up why they think Allen deserves to go into the hall of fame, but you have yet to proove anything. Just because you would "take" Magic, Tiny, or Calvin over AI who cares who you would take, that has nothing to do with why AI should be in the hall of fame or not. Also what makes you think that a hall of famer has to contribute somewhere else, is that a rule? Or is it just something Rock4Life made up because he doesn't like the way Allen Iverson plays? Besides, AI deosn't contribute to other parts of the game, what about those top three all time in steals per game numbers? I guess those are just nothing. You talk about cop outs? Your logic has more holes in it than anything, you state one thing and contradict youself. Who cares if AI leads the league in shot attempts, somebody is going to right? And it is not like he isn't supposed to, his coaches allow him to. Webber complained about AI's shooting habits? Where did you hear that from, you forogt to mention the fact that Webber came out himself and said that report was a bs LIE. Also your asking what about the other 13 players when you yourself said AI made nobody better, which is why I named one player. AI is a differnet type of player than the ideal guard, when he first came in the league he was immature aand was playing for a loosing team. Later when he was switched to SG for a while, it isn't his job to make the players around him better, its his job to score and it was Eric Snow's job to distribute the ball and make everyone better.In his rookie year at point AI averaged 7.5 assists per game, and the year later Larry Brown came and his assits dropped because he was in a different system. Now look again, AI got point duties once more last season and he averaged 8 assists per game. The year before that the 76ers team was not very good and he averaged 7 assists per game.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting B-22:</div><div class="quote_post">You say he isn't a team player? I want to know how so? Other 76ers fans can back up why they think Allen deserves to go into the hall of fame, but you have yet to proove anything. Just because you would "take" Magic, Tiny, or Calvin over AI who cares who you would take, that has nothing to do with why AI should be in the hall of fame or not. Also what makes you think that a hall of famer has to contribute somewhere else, is that a rule?.</div> No, I would think it would be a standard. I know he's your favorite player, and your his biggest fan. But he simply hasn't had a great career. If the Hall Of Fame were built on Sportcenter highlights, he'd be a considerable candidate. Tiny, Calvin, Isiah, Magic were all great leaders. They went to PRACTICE, and did whatever it took to win, even if that meant not scoring. They didn't force up 10-15 shots a game. They could of done that, but played within a team concept. As far as proof, look at the Sixers. They have more than enough to win with, but aren't going ANYWHERE. They'll be around 500. again this year. That has too reflect on Iverson. If your superstar scores 50, and your still losing, then that means something ain't right. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting B-22:</div><div class="quote_post"> Also your asking what about the other 13 players when you yourself said AI made nobody better, which is why I named one player. AI is a differnet type of player than the ideal guard, when he first came in the league he was immature aand was playing for a loosing team. Later when he was switched to SG for a while, it isn't his job to make the players around him better, its his job to score and it was Eric Snow's job to distribute the ball and make everyone better.</div> Ok. Listen to yourself. You sound really silly. As a superstar, a "socalled" leader, and clearly the best player on his team, your telling me it isn't Iverson's job to make his teammates better? Doesn't he handle the ball 95% of the time? That's another cop out, and I'm ashamed for you even saying that. Heres some advice, as the best player on ANY team, your job is ALWAYS to make your teammates better. Iverson came in the league throwin up bricks, and 10 years later, his game hasn't changed a bit. Anytime you mention his scoring titles, you have to look at his shot attempts. There have been 30pt a game scorers that have been on successful teams. Why are the Sixers a borderline average team? You blame the GM, I blame Iverson. By the way, I've pointed out numerous of facts in different forums. His shooting%, lack of defense (not steals), and turnovers (in which he lead the NBA). So I think your fondness for your role model blinds you from his many flaws and lack of team play. Maybe I should be questioning your logic.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Rock4life:</div><div class="quote_post"> By the way, I've pointed out numerous of facts in different forums. His shooting%, lack of defense (not steals), and turnovers (in which he lead the NBA). So I think your fondness for your role model blinds you from his many flaws and lack of team play. Maybe I should be questioning your logic.</div> That proves that you hate AI,you only look at bad side of his career while you should also check the other side.I think fans of AI and his game should stop posting in this thread as this guy is not gonna give up and talks the same stuff all over again.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Martin:</div><div class="quote_post">That proves that you hate AI,you only look at bad side of his career while you should also check the other side.I think fans of AI and his game should stop posting in this thread as this guy is not gonna give up and talks the same stuff all over again.</div> No......I don't hate the man. I just grew up watching other Hall Of Fame players, and I appreciate a team player who knows how to sacrifice and win year in and year out. I'm also really not a fan of Iverson's "shoot and pray I make it" style of play. That's simply not winning basketball.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Rock4life:</div><div class="quote_post">No......I don't hate the man. I just grew up watching other Hall Of Fame players, and I appreciate a team player who knows how to sacrifice and win year in and year out. I'm also really not a fan of Iverson's "shoot and pray I make it" style of play. That's simply not winning basketball.</div> I'm done with this argument, but your statement in the quote just prooves what my point is.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting B-22:</div><div class="quote_post">I'm done with this argument, but your statement in the quote just prooves what my point is.</div> Good..........Now let's see if your favorite player, and alleged Hall Of Famer can lead his team to an incredible 40 wins this season.
