<div class="quote_poster">Quoting pimpdaddy33:</div><div class="quote_post">Look Michael owns the basketball world now. Kobe can't beat Michael's stats. If Kobe was to get more championships than Michael Kobe could potentially be the known as the greatest player ever. By the way I'm making a critical point which I am a Kobe fan which goes to prove how much of a bias fan I am.</div> But 9 or 10 championships? That's a ridicolous standard to hold somebody too. Not only ridiculous, but IMPOSSIBLE with today's game. Kobe is the best player, talent wise in the game. Just like Micheal was. They have similar games, but I think Kobe was a better ball handler. Micheal was quicker. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting TheAnswer2:</div><div class="quote_post"> BUT I would not respect him off the court. He's not real. He's a fake. He did not fashion his own image like AI or Shaq or KG or TD. Yes, I realize that he watched hours of Jordan tape and copied his game, but I think on a subconcious level people don't like him because he's striving to be somebody else, instead of walking his own path. Also, he spends so much time working on his game that he has no social skills, thus the reason he doesn't get along with teammates, management, etc..</div> My point. A Kobe vs Jordan thread can't happen without somebody attacking Kobe on a personal level. It's wierd because nobody attacked Wilt for bagging 10.000 groupies. Who cares about Kobe's social life. Who cares about Kobe's image. He's the best player every night he steps on the court, and that's all that should matter. How can YOU sit here and say ANOTHER grown ass man ain't walkin his own path.
For Kobe Bryant, it's hard for him to create his own identity, when the media constantly compares him to Michael Jordan. He does mimic Jordan's moves on and off the court. However, a lot of players copy Jordan, but the media doesn't point it out as frequently. Any current player who rocks a #23 jersey has had aspirations of being Michael Jordan on the court. He's the icon for this generation of basketball players and is the standard for every guard or small forward in the league to copy. What I don't like is the hypocritical critique of Kobe Bryant when he's compared to Michael Jordan and some other superstars in the league. For example, when Jordan got in the face of teammates for making mistakes or demanded the ball down the stretch of games he was praised for being a leader, he was praised for having "ice in his vains," and he was praised for being willing to step up and take over a game. When Kobe Bryant does the exact same thing he gets criticized for being selfish, a ball hog, not trusting his teammates, wannabe Jordan, etc. It's a classic example of how Kobe Bryant cannot win no matter what he does in the NBA. A negative spin is always projected on him by the media. Last season the majority of media pointed out everything Kobe Bryant did wrong and ripped him apart. They overlooked all the hardships the team and franchise went through last season and conveniantly pinned everything on Kobe Bryant because he's an easy target and helps sell their paper. Over the next few seasons, if the Lakers are successful, the media will not give credit to Kobe Bryant. Instead the majority of the credit will go to Phil Jackson for turning the team around. People who do not like Kobe will overlook the fact he missed 16 games last season due to injury. They overlook the fact Lamar Odom missed 18 games last season due to injury. They overlook the team losing their head coach in mid-season and forcing the Triangle offense on the team. So why does the media attack Kobe Bryant? Is it because he let them down by cheating on his wife and was accused of rape, thus stepping away from his "clean cut" image? Is it because they get one-sided stories from his former headcoaches, or other people with an agenda against Kobe? examples ... Phil Jackson, Shaq O'neal I don't think anyone on here hangs out with Kobe Bryant to say he's not a cool guy off the court. We can only get insight to his personal life from third or fourth party sources, and not from the man himself. And like was mentioned above, his personal life shouldn't matter to any of us. All we should concern ourselves with is what he does on the court each night.
Yeah I agree with the Jordan thing, but I don't think that Kobe will go uncredited if the Lakers are successful. Phil will get his tremendous glory and I think Kobe will get alot too. If you noticed, Kobe's credibility is turning toward his side again. People are realizing that he might not be the total blame for the Shaq breakup, that he went through a total roster and coaching change etc etc. Plus you are starting to see alot more ads that involve Kobe. So I think Kobe will get alot of love for the Lakers success this season.
The only way I see Kobe surpassing Jordan is if he does the following 3 things: - Wins MVP and/or title as the franchise player on his team - Improves his field goal percentage (Kobe has never shot 50% from the field) - Lowers his turnovers (4 turnovers per game is too much) Part of the reason his field goal percentage is so low is that he is constantly having to force up shots as the shot clock expires. He has to do too much, and his teammates rely on him all the time. Plus, the other team's best defender is on him every night, so that wears him out. I think he will improve this season in both the field goal and turnover categories. Eventually, he might win MVP and should win at least 1 more title. But I don't know if he will ever be better than Jordan since MJ had 6 MVPs and 6 titles.
Should win at least one more title? The way people talk about winning championships they make it sound like it will eventually happen. The circumstances have to be PERFECT to win something that only comes around once a year. Include the fact that he's playing at the time of a dynasty. The Spurs are pissing me off by winning so much..
Kobe and Jordan are both great players, but when Jordan was playing it wasnt as competetive (the 90's). I think its alot harder for players nowadays with the zone defence . Not to take anything away from Jordan he was mad good but I think if you put him in todays era he would not dominate and wouldnt be considered the best player ever, maybe one of the bests but not the best. And I think its stupid when people say Kobe dosent have the same will to win as Jordan did.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting amador08:</div><div class="quote_post">Kobe and Jordan are both great players, but when Jordan was playing it wasnt as competetive (the 90's). I think its alot harder for players nowadays with the zone defence . Not to take anything away from Jordan he was mad good but I think if you put him in todays era he would not dominate and wouldnt be considered the best player ever, maybe one of the bests but not the best. And I think its stupid when people say Kobe dosent have the same will to win as Jordan did.</div> Ummmmm I don't know dude... Don't get me wrong, I totally think Kobe's the MAN!!!! But If you had MJ in his prime; especially if he played like how he did during the time he won his 2nd championship, I think he would still be taking some players to school. Especially if he was playing at the level during the time he won his 2nd three-peat... Becuase I think he was playing even smarter basketball, not to mention his jump shot just raised to another level... I know he won six rings, but its not just the fact that he won six, it was HOW he won those 6 rings; he had "two" three-peats... Even the BEST Lakers team couldn't even do that... The best they did was win two in a row... Shhht even Shaq & Kobe couldn't even do that; espeacially with Malone and Payton. But you probably already know that, and that's a different story for another thread... LOL!! Plus, I think the way the rules are now; they totally benefit the shooters. Shooters are able to be left open more because defenders are able to double team a player when they don't have the ball (which is another reason why I think Shaq's game wasn't the same since that new rule came out; guys were triple-teaming him all day, which would require him to be more mobile; and you & I both know that Shaq don't move around. He just likes to power himself down low; thus THE MOST DOMINANT PLAYER. But now-a-days you don't see that anymore, not like the past)... Anyways, with MJ having a jump shot like he did; IT WOULD BE ALL OVER.... na-mean????
I remember watching alot of the Laker games and teams always double and triple team kobe cuz their is no real thread in the Lakers team. The zone defence allows that which dosent really benefit him. He either has to take a quick contested shot or try to get his own shot and seem like a bollhog cuz he is trying to take on 2/3 guys and dosent pass it to a teamate. At least thats the way I feel they make the roll players beat em and most of the time the roll players dont hit their open shots . But Yea dont get mr wrong MJ was crazy in his prime but I guess you can never really know. I still think Kobe bryant is Under-rated.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting amador08:</div><div class="quote_post">I remember watching alot of the Laker games and teams always double and triple team kobe cuz their is no real thread in the Lakers team. The zone defence allows that which dosent really benefit him. He either has to take a quick contested shot or try to get his own shot and seem like a bollhog cuz he is trying to take on 2/3 guys and dosent pass it to a teamate. At least thats the way I feel they make the roll players beat em and most of the time the roll players dont hit their open shots . But Yea dont get mr wrong MJ was crazy in his prime but I guess you can never really know. I still think Kobe bryant is Under-rated.</div> So do I bro, believe me so do I... And you definitely hit the nail on the head... "He either has to take a quick contested shot or try to get his own shot and seem like a bollhog cuz he is trying to take on 2/3 guys and dosent pass it to a teamate. At least thats the way I feel they make the roll players beat em and most of the time the roll players dont hit their open shots" I just couldn't understand why our bench would ALWAYS be brick'n their shots (I'm talk'n about the bench we had during the last 2 years of the shaq & kobe era)... It's like Kobe was the only one working on his game and everybody else just shows up to practice just to watch him... The only time I felt our bench play'd consistant was when Ron Harper was playing, and when Fisher was fresh from recovering from his ankle sugery; he was lighting it up then. But you know I should just say; during the 3 years we won championships... After that our bench was WEAK!!!!!
I am Kobe's biggest fan but I think Mike would be just as good a player today as he was back then if not better. We cannot forget that the L is the way it is today BECAUSE of MJ. Me personally, I'm tired of hearing how damn good the "GOAT" is, and the amount of love is ridiculous. He's a man. not a god. But besides all of that, the players today -Kobe, Tmac, Wade, LeBron, Carter are who they are because of Michael Jordan. Every single gaurd in the League today was influenced by Michael Jordan, so if you were to say he came in the L today, instead of 20 years ago or whatever it is, he would be playing against comparatively weak competition because the Kobes, the Tmacs etc. wouldn't be the same because they wouldn't have been trying to emulate his greatness. The reason everyone hates Kobe so much is because his GAME is so much like mikes that it's ridiculous. How can you fault a guy for striving to be not only like the "GOAT" but BETTER THAN? Kobe gets hated on because he resembles MJ in every single way on the court, that it challenges Mikes thrown, and that scares people. They don't want to say goodbye to Mike. They love MJ and would feel disloyal by turning to a new man. It will take a good 5 more years before America can adopt a new hero without constant memories of MJ echoing through their minds. Kobe Bryant is unfortunate in that his time was right after MJ's. Had Kobe Bryant come about 10 years later, he would have been given a lot more respect because people would have "forgotten" about MJ at that point. It's all emotional, like a break up. You don't get out of a marriage to someone then turn around and get married again. There is a greiving period, and the basketball world is still in essence, getting over the loss of Michael Jordan. LeBron won't capture Americas hearts the same way either. My guess is the guy that steals the thrown from MJ is practicing his dribbling in a backyard somewhere right now....
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting ilive4ball:</div><div class="quote_post">I am Kobe's biggest fan but I think Mike would be just as good a player today as he was back then if not better. We cannot forget that the L is the way it is today BECAUSE of MJ. Me personally, I'm tired of hearing how damn good the "GOAT" is, and the amount of love is ridiculous. He's a man. not a god. But besides all of that, the players today -Kobe, Tmac, Wade, LeBron, Carter are who they are because of Michael Jordan. Every single gaurd in the League today was influenced by Michael Jordan, so if you were to say he came in the L today, instead of 20 years ago or whatever it is, he would be playing against comparatively weak competition because the Kobes, the Tmacs etc. wouldn't be the same because they wouldn't have been trying to emulate his greatness. </div> You're taking it too literally, we're just saying if MJ was dropped into the league tommorow. And I disagree, you name players with similar bodies and skills to Mike, but there's no way he inspired Iversons or Rays or Francis' games. You're exaggerating. And I think I read somewhere that Wade's game was influenced by Iverson, not Jordan.
Actualy Wade even said in an Interview that he looked up to Jordans game. He said that in the Playoffs when he hit a big shot and then was interviewed about how he was able to handle all the pressure.
Michael Jordan. I don't wanna be writing all night so I'll make it quick. MJ WOULD have been the best player even if he had been in his peek now, he HAS inspired many pros, he IS the best ever, Eventually players looked into his eyes and they knew the game was over from that moment, noone else has that power. I didn't even read any of the other posts because frankly, they aren't worth my time. Jordan made basketball what it is today, Kobe hasn't and won't.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting CakeEater10:</div><div class="quote_post">Michael Jordan. IS the best ever, Eventually players looked into his eyes and they knew the game was over from that moment, noone else has that power. I didn't even read any of the other posts because frankly, they aren't worth my time. </div> Actually Kareem Abdul Jabbar is the greatest player ever. NOT MJ. Stats prove it too.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting YourNewChef:</div><div class="quote_post">Actually Kareem Abdul Jabbar is the greatest player ever. NOT MJ. Stats prove it too.</div> what the hell are you talking about? what stats? the fact that he has the most points ever after playing 20 plus years, that stat. kareem was a great player but back up your points before making some random statement.
Kobe has never won MVP or dominated the league. Kobe was never the best player on his team till last season.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Esco416:</div><div class="quote_post">what the hell are you talking about? what stats? the fact that he has the most points ever after playing 20 plus years, that stat. kareem was a great player but back up your points before making some random statement.</div> No Kareem actually leads Jordan in points, Rebounds, blocks, asts and had a better FG and FT% not to mention has 6 rings also. Oh yeah he won 3 championships in high school (sophomore, junior and senior) Won 3 NCAA championships (sophomore, junior, and senior) The only thing Jordan has over Kareem is more FT made and taken and 3pts. SO Esco416, my stats are justified. Get off the "Jordan is god" bandwagon and do some research. Jordan is an awesome player who raised the bar on what a all-star shooting guard should be.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting YourNewChef:</div><div class="quote_post">No Kareem actually leads Jordan in points, Rebounds, blocks, asts and had a better FG and FT% not to mention has 6 rings also. Oh yeah he won 3 championships in high school (sophomore, junior and senior) Won 3 NCAA championships (sophomore, junior, and senior) The only thing Jordan has over Kareem is more FT made and taken and 3pts. SO Esco416, my stats are justified. Get off the "Jordan is god" bandwagon and do some research. Jordan is an awesome player who raised the bar on what a all-star shooting guard should be.</div> Stats huh? Russell has 11 rings...the most important stat of all. Chamberlain was the most unstoppable force the game has ever seen, there's no way Jabbar would lead the NBA in points if Wilt hadn't sacrificed his game for the sake of winning.
"There's Michael Jordan and then there is the rest of us." -- Magic Johnson why? Honors: Six-time NBA champion (1991-93, 1996-98); NBA MVP (1988, '91, '92, '96, '98); 10-time All-NBA First Team (1987-93, 1996-98); All-NBA Second Team (1985); Defensive Player of the Year (1988); Nine-time All-Defensive First Team (1988-93, 1996-98); Rookie of the Year (1985); 14-time All-Star; All-Star MVP (1988, '96, '98); One of 50 Greatest Players in NBA History (1996); Two-time Olympic gold medalist (1984, '92). he played against Bird, Johnson, frexler, malone, stockton, ewing, wilkins, and a big list of names and nobody could claim that dominates Jordan in his prime, kobe against jordan , jordan at his prime will beat kobe at his prime in any line of time
