Kobe VS Jordan

I can't let this go, there's been topics like this before and it's gone haywire by the 5th post. Sorry man. Nice to see you here, though...it's nothing personal.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AIRTIGHT:</div><div class="quote_post">Wow, this is absolutely ridiculous.. yall gotta fill me in as to what evidence would suggest that Kobe Bryant is or will ever be superior to MJ in anything concerning basketball in the NBA. Not being sarcastic at all; --- I mean what, you wanna check highlights? Jordan's strength, technique, grace, and ability outshine anything i've seen Kobe do . Stats? cmon now, they say it aint all about stats, but if it was -- and the chief multiplier being FG% which is hugely underscored when comparing performance-- there aint no comparison; noone has to squint their eyes to see that Jordan's stats outdo Kobe at any age, any forum, any way you want to look at it. Awards? for Kobe another question would be what awards? Earned all-NBA 1st for the 4th time in 10 years for the guy yall consider to be the best player of all time--- yall serious??

That award in itself leaves out many details and is subjective/controversial as it's relevance depends largely on the players in the leauge at particular positons. Looking at the answers on many other posts talking about all time greats and prospective greats and who would you choose to start a team with threads and such, there arent many guards in the league today that would rank among the all time legends-- infact none of their names came up. Yet these are the same guys robbing Kobe of the all- Team award 6 out of 10 times.

Really though, tell me what makes this comparison valid?-- Kobe hasnt distanced himself from the guards in the leauge today; in fact a better argument could be made that Wade, Iverson, Arenas, James hell even J Rich, are set to be better than Kobe </div>

Jordan didn't have the range or athleticism of Kobe. In driving and finishing at the hoop, it was equal. Clutchness? Equal. The only thing you can say Jordan had soley an advantage on Kobe was leadership. And Kobe's in his 2nd year of maturing into a leader. Efficiency? Wait until the Lakers not named Kobe Bryant and Luke Walton learn the triangle, Kobe's efficiency will fly through the roof.

Wade as good or even better than Kobe? Hell no. Why do you think Wade wants to train with Kobe in the offseason. Wade is just starting to add the perimeter game to his arsenal, but up until now, he wasn't a threat to score from the perimeter. Teams wanted him to shoot out there. Kobe can score from anywhere on the court. On defense, Wade was horrible. That's why he wants to train with Kobe in the offseaso. He wants to learn to play better d.

Iverson better than Kobe? Where has Iverson's clutchness been all his career? He isn't a very clutch player, he isn't a very strong player, he doesn't have a post game, he doesn't play great D. Iverson is a pure scorer. That's what he likes to do. If Iverson played in the triangle offseason as well, his assists would be about 5 a game.

I'm the biggest Arenas fan on this board, but he's no where near Kobe. Arenas is becoming a superstar quick, but he doesn't have the defense to be mentioned with Kobe. The way Kobe plays on offense, he plays 10x harder on defense. Arenas takes plays off when he's not scoring. He's also very immature. He's only 24 and learning to be a captain. If you want points in bunches, Arenas can give you that. What he won't give you is lock down defense, leadership, and the will to win a game when the team is absolutely depending on you.

LeBron? How many times does LeBron have to say that Kobe's the best in the game? How many times do the analyst have to say it? LeBron's game is miles behind Kobe. He doens't have a solid perimeter game yet. He's a monster when driving to the hoop, as good as Kobe. When it comes to finishing at the hoop, only Wade can contest him. On defense, Lebron is no where near Kobe. Why do you think LeBron grabs as many boards as he does? He roams around on defense. Kobe would be grabbing 7 boards a game as well if he didn't take on the obligation of defending the other teams best perimeter player.

And then J-rich? Are you kidding. Richardson can't even make the all-star team, he can't hold Kobe's jock strap. Richardson is an exciting player, he'll give you flashy dunks or knock down the three. But he won't give you leadership, defense, the ability to win games by himself, confidence, and such. Richardson is a great player, nothing more.

To further dive into the debate, we can look at their PER 45 stats:

Dwyane Wade PER 45
31.7 PPG, 6.6 RPG, 7.8 APG, 2.3 SPG, 50% eFG%, and 56% TS%

Those stats on a 45 MPG basis are nice, but they're assisted by the presence of Shaq. Look at Penny's numbers when he had Shaq and do the same for Kobe, Shaq makes it easier to grab boards and get assists. He also draws attention and makes it easier to score. I'm not saying Wade is a bad player or that he would suck without Shaq, becuase I like Wade a lot. I'm just saying some of his numbers are because of the presence of Shaq.

Allen Iverson PER 45
34.5 PPG, 3.3 RPG, 7.7 APG, 2.0 SPG, 46% eFG%, and 54% TS%

Again, great numbers except for his efficient FG%. That's because Iverson has to take a number of bad shots, shots to win games, he has to take a lot of shots in general. His assist numbers are great because he plays in a simple offensive system and is the floor general. If Iverson was to be put in the triangle, I guarantee that his assists would be about 5-6 a game, not 7.

Gilbert Arenas PER 45
31.2 PPG, 3.7 RPG, 6.5 APG, 2.1 SPG, 50% eFG%, and 61% TS%

Gilbert Arenas thrives on offensive because of the othe two threats Washington has, Caron Butler and Antawn Jamison. If you took even one of those players away, he'd struggle a bit more. On defense, Arenas isn't near Kobe's level. He takes many plays off beacuse he exerts himself on offense too much. His stats are incredible, but you have to believe if he was given Kobe's lineup and the triangle offense, his shooting % would be worse than Kobe's.

LeBron James PER 45
33.2 PPG, 7.4 RPG, 6.9 APG, 1.6 SPG, 51% eFG%, and 58% TS%

LeBron James is a monster for his age. Look at his size, look at his speed. His rebound numbers are high because he doesn't lock down the opposing teams best perimeter player like Kobe, so he can free lance around and grab rebounds. Who does he have to pass to? Big Z, Donyell, Gooden, and company. Playing with a big that can dominate a game like Z or Shaq will inflate a lot of your numbers. I'm not taking anything away from LeBron, he's a phenom, but I don't think he's better than Kobe. He's just now starting to come through in the clutch, but he has a lot to learn. He needs to improve his perimeter game because his body won't always be able to take the beating he takes when drives to the hoop. He needs to improve his defense, it's very lackluster right now. He's a top 10 player in the league, arguably top 5, but if he wants to be the best he has to improve a lot.

Jason Richardson PER 45
27.1 PPG, 6.7 RPG, 3.6 APG, 1.5 SPG, 51% eFG%, and 58% TS%

Someone would look at those numbers and think he's a supertar, especially the %'s because they're on par with LeBron's FG%. But in reality ,Jason Richardson doesn't compare to any of the players you listed. How in hell can Richardson be in the same class as Kobe? He doesn't win you games, he doens't play defense like Kobe, he doesn't hustle like Kobe. The only thing he can do is knock down 3's at times and give you highlight reel dunks. This is laughable at best, you're just throwing anyone out there because you hate Kobe Bryant.

Kobe Bryant PER 45
38.8 PPG, 5.8 RPG, 4.9 APG, 2.0 SPG, 49% eFG%, and 58% TS%

Kobe Bryant was a monster when he played 41 MPG, and he's at almost 39 a game if he played at the same pace for 45 MPG. His assist numbers aren't on par with Wade, Arenas, LeBron and Iverson for one reason. He didn't have a strong, consistent cast all year long. He also is on a team that runs the most complex offensive scheme known to the NBA. In the triangle, Kobe isn't the initatior so he doesn't have to get his teammates involved most of the time. Lamar is supposed to do that, hence he lead the team in assists. Kobe Bryant's main goal is to defend, attack, and score. In the clutch, he comes through. He plays 10x harder on defense than he does on offense. He always guards the opposing teams best perimeter player, therefore his rebound numbers aren't like LeBron's. He also doesn't have the benefit of a dominant big man like Wade, James, and sometimes Iverson. He doesn't have two potent threats other than himself on his team like Arenas. For 85% of the year, the Lakers were known as the Kobe's. They lived and died through him. He got us the 7th seed, he got us 3 wins against PHX, he got us back in the playoffs. Kobe Bryant got us some respect back. Kobe Bryant is the best player in basketball. Ask the coaches, ask the players (LeBron, Wade, Kobe, Stackhouse) all have stated that Kobe is the best player in the damn league. I would think that NBA players would know a lot more about the game, what it takes to be in the game, and the best players in the game than some fan like you. You can bring all the hate you want, but we'll shred it.

I'm not saying Kobe is better than Jordan, I know Jordan's the best to ever step on the court. He's my all time favorite player. But when someone is the best in the league, you have to recognize and respect that, even if you don't like the cat. Jordan was even quoted as saying Kobe deserved the MVP, so if the best player to ever play is giving Kobe some props, you should too. By careers end, Kobe will be in the same echelon as Jordan, if he isn't already. I don't think he'll be better, but he'll definetly be comparable. They're both great players, one who had a great career and one who's having a great career. Stop the hate, recognize the game and respect it. Kobe Bryant is the closest thing to MJ in the league.

I don't know why people compare James to Jordan, they don't play a like at all. If you wanted me to compare those two, Jordan would whoop LeBron's ass. Jordan has the better perimeter, mid range, clutch and defensive games. Jordan was a better leaders, winner, and teacher than LeBron is.

If you want someone to compare LeBron to, make it Magic. Strong point-forwards with uncanny court vision. But why compare LeBron to anybody? Let LeBron be Lebron, let him make his own legacy. Don't let him live up to Magic's legacy, let him set LeBron's legacy.

Before you start mentiong players that are as good as or even better than Kobe, think about and read what you write, because a lot of it is nonsense.

 

I'd go Spurs over Mavs, Clips over Suns, Detroit over Cleveland.