<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Semmi:</div><div class="quote_post">No player who cannot think for others while on the court can't play PG. Murray can't sometimes think for himself.....he is explosive and he can score but hi is not a PG. That is my opinion I'm not considering it to be the truth.</div> Before Ray Allen played season before last Flip played the majority of his minutes with Brent Barry and they shared the pg role and when he played with Ridnour he had to take much of his the role as well because Ridnour wasnt ready. Say what you will about Flip but when he gets in a flow he is capable of atleast managing some of the point guard duties. But for the record I dont think he will win this battle with Brunson..just think he should have a shot at it and really its much more logical then lowering are star players minutes to find ways to play Flip Murray.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Coolguy777:</div><div class="quote_post"> Say what you will about Flip but when he gets in a flow he is capable of atleast managing some of the point guard duties.</div> As a fan I sure hope so...that gives us another weapon in the backcourt. But I'm little sceptical about Murrays PG abilities (considering games I saw last season). The season before that (when Allen was injured and Murray played his best games as a Sonics) I was serving my country in an army so I couldn't follow much what happened in the NBA, so I guess I haven't seen everything Murray has to offer..... And also I may have some different views about basketball because I'm living in Europe and American style of basketball is little different...... But my main point is that when Murray can help this team to win games then he should play......whatever role Bob sees him in.....PG, SG...heck even SF against some teams.... And also I apologize for my English.....it's awful I know.....
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Semmi:</div><div class="quote_post">As a fan I sure hope so...that gives us another weapon in the backcourt. But I'm little sceptical about Murrays PG abilities (considering games I saw last season). The season before that (when Allen was injured and Murray played his best games as a Sonics) I was serving my country in an army so I couldn't follow much what happened in the NBA, so I guess I haven't seen everything Murray has to offer..... And also I may have some different views about basketball because I'm living in Europe and American style of basketball is little different...... But my main point is that when Murray can help this team to win games then he should play......whatever role Bob sees him in.....PG, SG...heck even SF against some teams.... And also I apologize for my English.....it's awful I know.....</div> i thought that your point was Brunson should get the minutes without flip having a chance..perhaps you changed your mind though? Your english isnt bad btw...its very readable. BTW im not sure our thoughts on the point guard spot are that different. I just suggested that Flip should have the opportunity..It will be hard to take those minutes from Brunson but its the most likely place to get them beisdes possible a little time at sg or sf occasionally. Overall I see him riding the pine most of the year once again.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Semmi:</div><div class="quote_post">And also I apologize for my English.....it's awful I know.....</div> Your english is fine. As far as Flip goes. My biggest problem with him is poor decision making. He fails to find the open man and takes bad shots. He cannot be a point gaurd. He is a scoring gaurd. If David Wesley and Allen Iverson had a bastard love child, you'd get Flip Murray. I like him on this team when our Donnas are scared to step inside the three point line. He is one of the few players on our team with the sack of marbles to take it to the rim, and one of the fewer that can get there consistently without plowing over a motionless defender. I see his playing time coming when we fail to get things going offensively instead of a set place in the rotation. It's fair to say he won't be here next season so Bobby probably won't waste much time trying to make space for him.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Semmi:</div><div class="quote_post"> And also I apologize for my English.....it's awful I know.....</div> Your English is fine. You write so well in English that I didn't know it was not your first language. Ignore me...I get snippy when I am in a foul mood... <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Odde24:</div><div class="quote_post">He is one of the few players on our team with the sack of marbles to take it to the rim, and one of the fewer that can get there consistently without plowing over a motionless defender.</div> That is something the Sonics will need this season. Last year it was AD you could count on to put his head down and take it to the rim when the shots stopped falling. He had to have one hard foul put him on the floor under the basket or he wasn't playing. If Flip will do that he WILL see minutes. That isn't Brunson's game, or Wilkens game, though Damien could add that with his athleticism.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Odde24:</div><div class="quote_post">Your english is fine. As far as Flip goes. My biggest problem with him is poor decision making. He fails to find the open man and takes bad shots. He cannot be a point gaurd. He is a scoring gaurd. If David Wesley and Allen Iverson had a bastard love child, you'd get Flip Murray. I like him on this team when our Donnas are scared to step inside the three point line. He is one of the few players on our team with the sack of marbles to take it to the rim, and one of the fewer that can get there consistently without plowing over a motionless defender. I see his playing time coming when we fail to get things going offensively instead of a set place in the rotation. It's fair to say he won't be here next season so Bobby probably won't waste much time trying to make space for him.</div> I agree entirely with this post. Great points. Flip is has the ability to get past his man, but hasn't shown the ability to create for other players using the skill. Unless he does, he won't get set rotational minutes like Odde said. His penetration will be welcomed in AD's absence, but he's got to learn to take off the blinders when he gets by the defender sometimes. Everyone in the league knows he can score, but he hasn't shown the ability to play the point/create for others and thats why no one was willing to tie up any cap to try and get him. Flip's back is totally against the wall this season considering this could likely be his only chance to cash in with a long term deal. My fear is that every time he steps on the court he'll be trying to prove something and he'll become a total blackhole and ruin any chance of chemistry. It worked great for him when Ray was out because nobody else had the stones to take it upon themself, but this isn't the same team and it won't work. I am glad he is back though, a fearless scorer isn't a bad thing to have coming off the bench. I just hope he brings something besides a clearout to the table. I just don't see him getting substantially more next offseason unless we have some serious injuries and he performs for a significant amount of the season though.
I know that I wrote earlier this summer that I would refrain from any Ron Murray debates until the season starts, but I have to chime in on this one. Flip last season wasn't given the opportunity to play point guard at all. The only time he got minutes is when someone was out of the rotation with an injury. In those limited minutes that he got, he did look to score, because he was playing shooting guard--mostly when Ray wasn't in the lineup. I don't see too many shooting guards off of the bench in this league being berated for their inability to get others involved. Last season was a contract season for Flip and he handled himself like the ultimate professional through a season worth of DNP-CD's. Why is it all of a sudden because he signed a QO everyone assumes that he is going to change his personality and become disruptive on and off of the court. He hasn't complained once since he has been in the league, and unlike the majority of the Sonics who've felt like they've been shortchanged, he has had ample reason to do so. I don't know Flip at all but it seems to me that he signed the QO instead of a longer deal b/c he wants to be able to have a fresh start out of the shadow of Ray Allen (who he also played w/ in Milwaukee). He didn't try to negotiate a deal in the media, he just decided that he could have more options if he was an unrestricted free agent next season. Flip is a "combo guard" capable of manning both the point guard and shooting guard positions periodically throughout the game. Contrary to the majority opinion in this forum he has shown the ability to get others involved considering that in the three games he started at the point in 2003-2004 he had double digits assists in two of them. He is a scorer by nature, but he's played point guard at every level outside of the NBA. It just seems like he has tunnel vision b/c the only time he was given substantial minutes last year he was asked to carry the offensive burden left by either Ray's or Sweet Lew's departure. Rick Brunson is a heady player whose primary responsibility will be to give Luke an opportunity to rest w/o disrupting the team's flow. Ron's game is completely different than that b/c he is more inclined to go after his game than most guards in this league. Bob Weiss has been a fan of Flip's since he arrived from Seattle and I'm sure that his role on this year's team will be to be aggressive both offensively and defensively and provide clutch scoring late in games. Don't expect him to rot on the bench behind Damien Wilkins and Rick Brunson. Nate McMillan is no longer our coach.
Absolutely right about Flip never being a complainer (atleast publicly) hes takin his small role like a champ.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> he is explosive and he can score but he is not a PG. </div> Semmi, I absolutely agree with you on this. I somehow feel uncomfortable with Murray directing traffic at the top of the key. And when I say "uncomfortable" I mean it as in uncomfortable holding in a fart while surrounded by a bunch of beautiful women. He is great on one on one, but I'll choose Brunson to back up Rid at the point.
Flip has conducted himself as a professional. Shiek is right when he says we didn't hear him complaining - I don't once remember it being an issue to his credit. My whole issue with Flip at the point isn't that I don't think he can do it. I just question whether or not he will. To play the posistion on this team effectively he has to look for other players shots before his own, and I can't remember many, if any time, that he stepped onto the court without looking to get his first. He did have a couple a games 2 seasons ago in which he put up some nice assist #'s, so I probably was a little harsh in saying that he didn't get others involved - because although he might not do it as much as he should, he definately can do this - but he also has put up a personal best 1.38:1 A/TO ratio since entering the NBA, not exactly stellar. Flip is a scorer by nature, its what he does best, and I'm not blaming him for doing it. In 03/04, that was exactly what we needed from him, and he delivered - but if your playing on a team with an Allstar SG and an Allstar SF, he better learn to get them involved first when he steps on the court and it just hasn't happened. Hopefully he can pull it off, because he's too talented a piece to waste away on the bench, and although I think he will get some minutes this season, I don't know how many of them will be playing a true PG - even if he's slotted in the posistion.
I don't think Flip playing PG is much of an issue. He'll be doing it for 10 mpg at most, which is not a problem.
I love flip (see the sig and all) but this is a guy who is in a precarious position in the NBA. He has to make a move in the near future otherwise his prime years will pass him by and he'll fade into mediocrity.. he is NOT a point. the guy is turnover prone to the extreme. he just doesnt have the presence of mind of say an AD or Luke. Often you'd see him stroll upcourt, get pressured, and end up dribbling the ball off his leg. trying to turn him into something he is not will not get him anywhere.. Though his decision making could use work, in the end I honestly doubt he will ever surpass Luke as far as being a PG goes.. and flip isn't the type who should ride the pine his whole career. The issue is that he is a volume scorer.. which is a commodity of sorts, though not one very sought after in the wake of the Pistons/Spurs retardation that has swept the league recently. What he simply needs is better efficiency: not settling for jump shots, constantly attacking and getting to the ft line--these are things that AD did and look what kind of contract it got him. Flip will be hard pressed to keep his TO's down, but in the end he can still prove himself starter material with improved shot selection.. IMO he's an allstar talent waiting for the right team, but unfortunately that team doesnt exist in the league right now..
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting tradebark:</div><div class="quote_post">I love flip (see the sig and all) Flip will be hard pressed to keep his TO's down, but in the end he can still prove himself starter material with improved shot selection.. IMO he's an allstar talent waiting for the right team, but unfortunately that team doesnt exist in the league right now..</div> Ummm yeah so am i...just the wrong teams right now ya know?
