Why Kobe?

Discussion in 'Los Angeles Lakers' started by STAT5, Oct 13, 2005.

  1. STAT5

    STAT5 JBB Banned Member

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    If Kobe Bryant is dishing the ball, and his teammates are not making shots, Kobe is not "making his team better". If Kobe is trying to take over a game, (something he was lauded for the last three years), to make up for the miscues of his teammates, he is selfish, a "ball hog".

    What exactly does the media want from Kobe? Kobe is second in the league in triple doubles. He is the leagues second leading scorer, and only fell behind AI when Kobe went down for those 14 games. He was voted, by the fans, as the West as a starter in the allstar game........again.

    Certainly there are some positives about Kobe that the press could begin concentrating on?

    What I really would like to ask you is this...

    Do you think that, eventually, Kobe will regain some of the good publicity, the recognition of his talents and accomplishments, and that star luster that he lost when he was arrested?

    Reaching the playoffs this year? A couple of 50 point games? Will it take another championship?
    Or is Kobe's name forever tarnished, and the press will continue, forever, to pile on and lead all of their stories with the negative?
    Can time heal this? Winning?

    It makes me very angry to see how quick the press forgets, and how much more pleasure they seem to get by knocking Kobe down.

    Source:
    http://www.welovekobe.com/TheNegativeMediaLovesKobe.html
     
  2. m1c4ae1_su160

    m1c4ae1_su160 JBB JustBBall Member

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    Unfortuantely it just might... And you're right about his teammates; you can't get an assist if the other guy receiving the ball likes to lay bricks... But hat would be a beautiful day, when Lakers finally click and start playing ball the the old Chicago Bulls days. But you know, I don't even want to start comparing the two teams; they're two different eras... I want THIS Lakers team to make it happen, becuase I know they're capable, I know all their problems are all mental right now... So I'm waiting for the day Pjax starts doing his zen thing again; light up some incents, break out the good green; DO SOMETHING!!!! Just let them see the light....
     
  3. Shapecity

    Shapecity S2/JBB Teamster Staff Member Administrator

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    Kobe Bryant just needs to win games and eventually the media will get off his case. If he has to be a ballhog to win games, so be it.

    The problem I still see with the team is Kobe is surrounded by soft prima-donna players who don't know the fundamentals of basketball. It's taking the players far too, much time to learn how to play the Triangle offense. It's really not that hard to learn if you know the basics of basketball and can think on the fly. Right now the team looks robotic on the court and are thinking too, much about where they are supposed to be instead of just playing basketball.

    Last night there were some great examples of this. Chris Mihm grabbed an offensive rebound, and instead of just going up and dunking it, he kicks the ball out to reset the offense. Lamar Odom did this a few times as well. Also the players kept passing up wide open shots and then found themselves taking a low percentage shot with the shot clock winding down.

    I know it's only the preseason, but it's frustrating to see the same mistakes from last season being carried over again this year. You have to wonder what the players were doing since the end of last season until now, because they still looked lost on the court.
     
  4. m1c4ae1_su160

    m1c4ae1_su160 JBB JustBBall Member

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    great point dude!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If only the Lakers team can read whats on this site; maybe it could make them think about what they're doing....
     
  5. bbwtrench

    bbwtrench BBW Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The problem I still see with the team is Kobe is surrounded by soft prima-donna players who don't know the fundamentals of basketball.</div>

    Bingo!
     
  6. phunDamentalz

    phunDamentalz JBB JustBBall Member

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    If Kobe gave the other players confidence, that would be making his teammates better. Passing to a player does not necessarily make them better. Passing to them and believing they can take care of the rest makes them better. Passing to them like "I know you ain't making this, but i need to show a few passes so coach doesn't say i'm selfish" doesn't make them better. I"m not inside kobe's head so i don't know what goes on in there, but i definitely think making your teammates better is in part a mental thing. Anyway kobe gets unfairly criticized. Apparently it's not enough to be a ridiculously talented basketball player you've also got to be everyone's favorite guy in the locker room.
     
  7. TheMegaGreg

    TheMegaGreg JBB JustBBall Rookie Team

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    Not all the bad press on Kobe came as a reasult of his arrest, people were mentioning his being a ball hog years ago, even when the Lakers were winning rings.
     
  8. Shapecity

    Shapecity S2/JBB Teamster Staff Member Administrator

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting phunDamentalz:</div><div class="quote_post">If Kobe gave the other players confidence, that would be making his teammates better. Passing to a player does not necessarily make them better. Passing to them and believing they can take care of the rest makes them better. Passing to them like "I know you ain't making this, but i need to show a few passes so coach doesn't say i'm selfish" doesn't make them better. I"m not inside kobe's head so i don't know what goes on in there, but i definitely think making your teammates better is in part a mental thing. Anyway kobe gets unfairly criticized. Apparently it's not enough to be a ridiculously talented basketball player you've also got to be everyone's favorite guy in the locker room.</div>

    I think the players are confident stepping on to the court with Kobe Bryant already. He's one of the best players in the game and gives your team a chance to win on any given night. Having him on the court makes them better immediately, because of all the defensive attention Kobe draws away from his teammates.

    I have to get back to my original point, this roster is loaded with prima-donna players. Kobe Bryant needs to be surrounded by players who are obsessed about winning championships. Right now the Lakers have players like Odom, Kwame, and Mihm who have talent, upside, potential, but they don't have the mental drive to take advantage of their skills. They just do enough to get by, but never fully reach their potential.

    Lamar Odom had the same problem in college. He was the best player on the court every night, but he never had the killer instinct. There's a reason why Lamar Odom is not an All-Star in this league and not mentioned on the same level as Kevin Garnett, Amare Stoudemire, or Tim Duncan. He just doesn't have the mental makeup and desire to be the best player in the league. If he really wanted to assert himself, he would be better than any of those players.

    Kwame Brown still refuses to take accountability for his actions. I realize he had a terrible childhood, he had a rough introduction into the NBA, and he wasn't in the right system in Washington. However, a player who wants to be the best will force the issue and make it the right situation for themselves. I think him and Odom suffer from a defeatist attitude.

    Chris Mihm is another under acheiver. He's been one his entire basketball career and he's shown little improvement since his rookie season. Again, he's just not tough enough mentally to play Center in the NBA. He backs down every time he's knocked out of position. Instead of fighting for hte position again, he just takes what the person gives him. He still has terrible hands, which makes it hard to give him an entry pass and still doesn't understand the angles of the game. He panics when the double team comes, and still hasn't learned to keep the ball above his head in traffic. He has a bad habit of keeping it low where guards can swipe at it. Also it's discouraging reading reports about how slow he is at learning the Triangle offense. When Andrew Bynum was brought in, he learned more than Chris Mihm in 3 days, versus half a season of playing in it for Mihm.

    The Lakers are expecting Phil Jackson to do what he does best and get the most out of these guys. This is what makes predictions hard for this team. It's going to depend on how receptive they are to PJax, and how fast they can learn. Even with all the support, at the end of the day these three are only going to be as good as they want to be.
     
  9. Brasco

    Brasco JBB JustBBall Member

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    this is typical of laker fans and of kobe, blame everyone else beisdes Kobe.
    i was watching a program about kobe's career a little while ago, it talked about how kobe was so popular his NBA rookie year yet he still remained a bench player on the lakers, because at the time he could not form a proper relationship with his other teamates, this hasn't changed in 10 years. kobe is extremely talented but its obvious he can't lead a team. last year wasn't a fluke, the 02-03 season when shaq was injured and kobe tried to lead the team, that was the year the laker dynasty streak ended and they lost to the spurs. maybe kobe and his fans should stop blaming the other teamates and start looking at Kobe himself.
     
  10. Mr.Handles

    Mr.Handles JBB JustBBall Member

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    I personally think that Kobe will never have a second chance at what he once had. to be the next MJ. He has been through too much and put his fellow players through too much as well. It is sad because he is an AMAZING offensive player, he is a dominant force to be reckoned with, but his image as a ball hog and "rapist" (even though I don't believe it) will supress his stardom.
     
  11. Shapecity

    Shapecity S2/JBB Teamster Staff Member Administrator

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Lamont:</div><div class="quote_post">this is typical of laker fans and of kobe, blame everyone else beisdes Kobe.
    i was watching a program about kobe's career a little while ago, it talked about how kobe was so popular his NBA rookie year yet he still remained a bench player on the lakers, because at the time he could not form a proper relationship with his other teamates, this hasn't changed in 10 years. kobe is extremely talented but its obvious he can't lead a team. last year wasn't a fluke, the 02-03 season when shaq was injured and kobe tried to lead the team, that was the year the laker dynasty streak ended and they lost to the spurs. maybe kobe and his fans should stop blaming the other teamates and start looking at Kobe himself.</div>

    What show was this?

    Kobe Bryant was benched because he didn't get along with his teammates? What a farce!

    Kobe Bryant was benched because the Lakers had Eddie Jones starting at shooting guard and playing 38 minutes a game. They also had Byron Scott as the backup SG.

    Let's also not forget who the GM was at the time, Jerry West. He would never put up with that attitude, especially coming from a rookie.

    You always bring up last season and when Shaq was injured as reasons Kobe cannot lead a team.

    Let me ask you, name one player who can lead a team not built around them?

    The Lakers lineup is filled with players complimenting Shaq, not Kobe. The Lakers won't be able to completely make that transistion until 2007 when they finally have cap flexibility.

    No one is blaming those players. Hell the season hasn't even started yet. My point was those players had issues with their careers well before Kobe Bryant was a teammate.
     
  12. LiQz

    LiQz JBB JustBBall Member

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    It's gonna take at least another championship to shut up some of the haters.
     
  13. bbwtrench

    bbwtrench BBW Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Lamont:</div><div class="quote_post">this is typical of laker fans and of kobe, blame everyone else beisdes Kobe.</div>

    Typical of Laker fans? Whats that suppose to mean exactly? Can you elaborate a bit more? Do you know me? Im a die hard Laker fan. Does that mean I blame everyone else besides Kobe. I think you need to think before you go around posting that we are typical Laker fans.


    <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
    i was watching a program about kobe's career a little while ago, it talked about how kobe was so popular his NBA rookie year yet he still remained a bench player on the lakers, because at the time he could not form a proper relationship with his other teamates</div>

    He was a rookie with a solid squad of starters that were more experienced than he was. The team consisted of Nick Van Exel, Eddie Jones, and Byron Scott in the backcourt. Kobe was getting about 15 minutes a game that year.

    <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">kobe is extremely talented but its obvious he can't lead a team. last year wasn't a fluke,</div>

    Cant lead a team? Are you God's gift to basketball that you can see that Kobe cant lead a team just because of a single season??? Who could lead a team when you have a coach the quits in the middle of the season, players who a scared to take shots under the basket at the buzzer, and the media all over you over a rape charge. Im not genius, but I think Kobe did a great job considering the turmoil last season. Give him 3-4 years with the team before you start judging him about leadership.


    <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">the 02-03 season when shaq was injured and kobe tried to lead the team, that was the year the laker dynasty streak ended and they lost to the spurs</div>

    During that season the offense was still centered around Shaq. Obviously theres going to be some problems when the Big Guy is injured. That has nothing to do with Kobe's leadership. In fact that was one of his best years statistically. 30ppg, 7rpg, and 6apg. Solid numbers in my opinion.

    <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">maybe kobe and his fans should stop blaming the other teamates and start looking at Kobe himself.</div>

    No one is blaming anyone. In order for this team to work, we need the right players. Try placing T-Mac on the current Lakers squad, or even D-Wade. Lets see how well they do in Kobe's place. Put Kobe in Wades place and even in Houston and I can see Championship written all over it.
     
  14. phunDamentalz

    phunDamentalz JBB JustBBall Member

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    Shapecity you said "Kobe Bryant needs to be surrounded by players who are obsessed about winning championships."
    Those players are not growing on trees. Guys talk the talk about how it's all about the ring, but most of them are content to "give it a shot and see what happens". I believe there are only a tiny group of guys who are truly obsessed about winning. And you could argue that the great players make their teammates better by turning them into guys obsessed about winning championships when before they were unmotivated. I don't really believe that every single person on say the MJ Bulls roster or the Spurs 03/05 is THAT much different drive-wise from Kwame/Lamar/Mihm, at least not until Tim or Jordan got to work with them. Manu aside, do you think Scottie Pippen or Steve Kerr or Nazr Mohammed were obsessed with winning championships? I think Kobe is a great player though, just not at the same level as Mike or TD. Not everyone can be those guys.
     
  15. Shapecity

    Shapecity S2/JBB Teamster Staff Member Administrator

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting phunDamentalz:</div><div class="quote_post">Shapecity you said "Kobe Bryant needs to be surrounded by players who are obsessed about winning championships."
    Those players are not growing on trees. Guys talk the talk about how it's all about the ring, but most of them are content to "give it a shot and see what happens". I believe there are only a tiny group of guys who are truly obsessed about winning. And you could argue that the great players make their teammates better by turning them into guys obsessed about winning championships when before they were unmotivated. I don't really believe that every single person on say the MJ Bulls roster or the Spurs 03/05 is THAT much different drive-wise from Kwame/Lamar/Mihm, at least not until Tim or Jordan got to work with them. Manu aside, do you think Scottie Pippen or Steve Kerr or Nazr Mohammed were obsessed with winning championships? I think Kobe is a great player though, just not at the same level as Mike or TD. Not everyone can be those guys.</div>

    I would disagree, I think every player on the Bulls roster was focused on winning the championship in those seasons, same with the Spurs. The job of the leader and head coach is to keep the team focused and provide motivation when players start slacking.

    Scottie Pippen and Steve Kerr were definately obsessed with winning titles. When they felt the ride was over in Chicago they both moved on to places where they felt they could win another title. Nazr Mohammed might not have been focused, but once he got to San Antonio, he was forced to if he wanted any playing time.

    Just because there might only be a handful of players obsessed with winning, doesn't mean you don't try to look for them. I think there are lot more than you realize in the league. Every year there is a new group of hungry veterans trying to claim glory before they can no longer play. Every year there is a new group of rookies who come from winning college programs and understand how a team functions.
     

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