<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Knicks Analyst:</div><div class="quote_post">Really...so Howard would stand within 5 feet of Evans - that way he can argue he was in the general area. Howard is not going to consistently contest his shots and he surely will not stick right to Evans. Please. And if Howard is pulled, where does the advantage shift to? Clearly Evans is a stronger player - and while Evans won't score 10 points, he has an impact on the offense as a whole. Let's assume Howard does for once play some defense - then Evans creates space on offense because Howard can't leave Evans alone because he is somehow really worried about getting pulled. I doubt JVG would be as harsh about that now anyway, it's the preseason - he wants to see just how many defensive mistakes he should expect from Howard.</div>I don't know where you're getting all your stuff from. You obviously haven't seen Howard play lately and are just trying to use sarcastic wisecracks to prove your point. I've seen Howard play for the Rockets plenty of times last year, and his defense is certainly not as bad as you're trying to make it seem. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Ha. Evans won't follow him that closely, he'll remain in the general area of the paint - he'll just adjust with Howard getting the ball. Evans is more than capable of moving forward and contesting a jumpshot from old Juwan Howard - I assure he won't have to stick right on him.</div>And I assure you that if Evans doesn't stick on Howard, Howard will make him pay. Last year, Howard shot 6-9 against Al Harrington, 5-5 on Bosh, 7-12 on Gasol, 7-9 on Gooden, and 14-19 on Nowitzki. What makes you so confident about Evans's ability to make him a non-factor on offense? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Oh, but they do carry some truth to them. And those stats do not lie, they prove how weak Howard is. The stats are right in front of you. For almost all of his career Howard has been a liability defensively. There really is no arguing it.</div>I don't know why you're focusing on the past when we're talking about tonight's game. Howard has been terrible defensively before, and I'm not going to vote him DPOY, but Van Gundy has definitely changed his defensive game for the better. Last season, even your stats showed improvement in his defensive game. And his defense is irrevelant when we're talking about him guarding Reggie Evans.
Being a Magic fan, I have seen a lot of Juwan Howard and I agree with Knicks Analyst. Juwan is a liability on defense and isn't a huge offensive threat. To call him a great scorer is exaggerating greatly. He is a mediocre scorer at best and I would give the advantage to the Sonics in a Howard-Evans match up. Evans can get you rebounds and is a solid interior defender. While Juwan may get you a few more points in a game, Reggie's presence on defense and on the boards outweighs Juwan's offensive production.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Locke:</div><div class="quote_post">I don't know where you're getting all your stuff from. You obviously haven't seen Howard play lately and are just trying to use sarcastic wisecracks to prove your point. I've seen Howard play for the Rockets plenty of times last year, and his defense is certainly not as bad as you're trying to make it seem. </div> I've seen a great deal of Howard;s defense, thank you. He is really weak, I exaggerated tad much like you did with that Yao Ming stat. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> And I assure you that if Evans doesn't stick on Howard, Howard will make him pay. Last year, Howard shot 6-9 against Al Harrington, 5-5 on Bosh, 7-12 on Gasol, 7-9 on Gooden, and 14-19 on Nowitzki. What makes you so confident about Evans's ability to make him a non-factor on offense?</div> Oh, no sir. Evans is agile and very alert on defense, he knows what he's doing, pal. Bosh is pretty good on defense. Al Harrington has been known to drop off on defense later in games - he gets a bit lazy and doesn't pay too much attention. Gasol is a weak defender. Gooden is a good rebounder, not the best man-to-man defender you'll ever see, and Dirk is...average defensively. None of them are what you would call truly <u>smart </u>defenders. Evans <u>is </u>a smart defender. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> I don't know why you're focusing on the past when we're talking about tonight's game. Howard has been terrible defensively before, and I'm not going to vote him DPOY, but Van Gundy has definitely changed his defensive game for the better. Last season, even your stats showed improvement in his defensive game. And his defense is irrevelant when we're talking about him guarding Reggie Evans.</div> Well, Allan Houston had some spurts of 20 games where his defense looked solid under JVG. But then eventually he tailed off a bit, he had some good games then some bad one. It was like streaks. It went from average to awful. JVG can do a lot for players on defense. But players are usually most motivated at a younger age (not 32) and generally are quick (young) and have great stamina (young). I wouldn't put Howard into the catergory of an even slightly below average player defensively just yet.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Swish15:</div><div class="quote_post">Being a Magic fan, I have seen a lot of Juwan Howard and I agree with Knicks Analyst. Juwan is a liability on defense and isn't a huge offensive threat. To call him a great scorer is exaggerating greatly. He is a mediocre scorer at best and I would give the advantage to the Sonics in a Howard-Evans match up.</div>With the Magic, Tracy McGrady was a liability on defense. Look where he is now under Van Gundy. Talking about Howard anywhere away from Houston isn't revelant. I don't know why a 17.2 ppg career average makes you a mediocre scorer at best. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Evans can get you rebounds and is a solid interior defender. While Juwan may get you a few more points in a game, Reggie's presence on defense and on the boards outweighs Juwan's offensive production.</div>Hey, I didn't say Howard is a better guy overall. It's just not too easy to tell, like it is with Ben Wallace and Yao. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Knicks Analyst:</div><div class="quote_post">I've seen a great deal of Howard;s defense, thank you. He is really weak, I exaggerated tad much like you did with that Yao Ming stat.</div>Have you seen enough to form an opinion of his defense under Van Gundy? I've been stressing all along that any evidence of his defensive deficiencies before Van Gundy is hardly valid. Van Gundy has made who he is on defense today. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Oh, no sir. Bosh is pretty good. Evans is agile and very alert on defense, he knows what he's doing, pal. Al Harrington has been known to drop off on defense later in games - he gets a bit lazy. Gasol is a weak defender. Gooden is a good rebounder, not the best man-to-man defender, and Dirk is...around average defensively. None of them are what you would call truly <u>smart </u>defenders. Evans is a smart defender.</div>Oh I'm sorry. You mentioned "quick" and I brought up some "quick" defenders that Howard has done well against. Name me some other "smart" ones and I'll find you some stats. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Well, Allan Houston had some spurts of 20 games where his defense looked solid under JVG. But then eventually he tailed off a bit, he had some good games then some bad one. It was like streaks. It went from average to awful. JVG can do a lot for players on defense. But players are usually most motivated at a younger age (not 32) and generally are quick (young) and have great stamina (young). I wouldn't put Howard into the catergory of an even slightly below average player defensively just yet.</div>Last year, Howard was 31 and still was motivated enough to become the best defender he had ever been. Why would he drop off now?
Trip you put too much weight into the whole idea of defensive systems. It's largely a matter of how capable a player is to play in that given system. Generally systems call for young guys with guts, strength, speed, and agility. Howard has none of these attributes. Howard is scared, he's not what I would consider physically intimidating, he's not fast or agile. Howard may improve in spurts, but in the long run I strongly doubt that he has the capabilities necessary to become a truly contributing member of a system - a system that would make him an average (or so) defender..
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Have you seen enough to form an opinion of his defense under Van Gundy? I've been stressing all along that any evidence of his defensive deficiencies before Van Gundy is hardly valid. Van Gundy has made who he is on defense today.</div> Not to worry, buddy. I'm more than familiar with Van Gundy's emphasis on defense. As I've said before, I think that Howard lacks the tools necessary to become even an average defender. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Oh I'm sorry. You mentioned "quick" and I brought up some "quick" defenders that Howard has done well against. Name me some other "smart" ones and I'll find you some stats.</div> First off, you can't be sure that all of his stats came against the defenders named. For example, perhaps when Howard scored 5-5 on "Bosh" there were one or two defensive shifts. It's impossible to be sure who surrendered how many points solely on boxscores - you'd need to watch the tape. Bearing that in mind: Reggie Evans, Tyson Chandler, and Kurt Thomas. Remember, maybe Chandler was on the bench when Howard scored X amount of points "on him". Maybe there was a defensive shift when Howard scored X amount of points on Thomas. There are many if's and variables. No stats you present can truly be considered concrete unless you want to mail me some tapes you have that can show me that Howard scored the points against those specific players. Weak statistical argument, Trip. Far too many questions could be asked about how the points were scored - too shaky. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Last year, Howard was 31 and still was motivated enough to become the best defender he had ever been. Why would he drop off now?</div> Another year. You realize how hard it will be for him to compete at this age in the NBA? As the players grow bigger and stronger at the PF position? It's not abnormal to find huge 6'10 or 6'11 guys at the 4 nowadays. And this another year on his body. He's not exactly built like a tank and he doesn't exactly have the intensity of a lion on defense. He's growing older and his body is more vulnerable, he will ache more and he will have to play harder (risking injury and possibly damaging himself further as he grows more and more frail) to earn minutes under Van Gundy. He's not quick, not fast, not big, not strong, doesn't have enough stamina, not intense enough, he's not there physically. Mentally I doubt he's there. After all of these years of playing like Mr. Softee on defense - he doesn't seem to want to get injured, a quality good defenders generally do not have. I don't see it, sorry. I'm sure you and other Rockets fans love dreaming about it, but I simply do not see it.
I guess unless you are in laredo, you cant follow this game, not even the box score. I dont see juwan howard as that great. Maybe in Orlando, when he put up like 18ppg, but with the rockets, he isnt much of an offensive option. He gave us like 10 ppg, which is what all our starters gave us. His defense may be mediocre, but only 5 blocks the entire season hurt us. Howard has really changed though. Ever since he got knocked off the lineup last year, he has been great. His rebounding really jumped and he plays with a whole lot of hustle.
^^^ ya, i hope he keeps up the good work... hes realy seem to be more motivated now, and is more active
Neither yao nor tmac played apparently. Luther Head and Swift did great though. Evans didnt score a single point, howard did good had 9 boards. D***, they pushed Lidge too far if you ask me.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting bplld:</div><div class="quote_post">Neither yao nor tmac played apparently. Luther Head and Swift did great though. Evans didnt score a single point, howard did good had 9 boards. D***, they pushed Lidge too far if you ask me.</div> Yep. Well, Evans only played 15 minutes and grabbed 7 boards in that span. Howard played 27 minutes, shot 4-10 with 8 points and 9 boards (3 offensive, he probably snagged up one or two of his misses). Not a brilliant game in 27 minutes, assuming that he got one or two of those offensive boards off of his own missed shots. Swift's stats looked pretty good- 17 points, two blocks, 5 boards, 2 assists. Problem with Swift was his PF's (5), TO's (4). Still not bad, he's probably still in the adjusting process. Deke had 11 boards in 26 minutes. Wow.
Seattle rotated their players a lot - Ridnour, Ray, Evans and Lewis only played 15 minutes each, whereas guys like Alston, Wesley, Howard and Swift all logged around 25-30. Pretty happy though, as Petro is really looking promising, even if Swift isn't.
come on MRtran, read the post above you. it's a preseason game anyway. preseason is about experimentation and feeling out what you have to work with. not about winning. i assure you if this was a regular season game we would have won.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MTran:</div><div class="quote_post">seattle unable to beat rockets with tmac or yao. </div> Well Ray Allen, Rashard Lewis, Luke Ridnour and Reggie Evans all didn't play a single minute in the second half, so the Rockets were always going to play out the game better, even without their two big guns.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Seattle.:</div><div class="quote_post">come on MRtran, read the post above you. it's a preseason game anyway. preseason is about experimentation and feeling out what you have to work with. not about winning. i assure you if this was a regular season game we would have won.</div> I'm not so sure about that.. but regardless, it was an unnecessary comment by MTran though. Nobody should look too much into any preseason games. It's all about trying new systems, plays, rookies, etc..
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting SupraJames:</div><div class="quote_post">I'm not so sure about that.</div> I think he means if it was a regular season game with Yao and Tmac out, we would have won because guys like Lewis, Ridnour and Ray would have been on the floor for most of the game.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Sir Desmond:</div><div class="quote_post">I think he means if it was a regular season game with Yao and Tmac out, we would have won because guys like Lewis, Ridnour and Ray would have been on the floor for most of the game.</div> Oh, my mistake. Thanks for clearing that up.
