<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Last year, that may have worked. This year, we have players that can create they're own offense. DA and even Stromile both can score by themselves. Skip can penetrate and create shots for others, so I don't buy the notion that if Yao and Tracy go off, we'll lose. We have too many weapons.</div> We had Bob Sura and Mike James who could both drive into the lane or hit jumpers on their own. Juwan Howard has an adequate post up game and can hit the midrange shot. Essentially, as far as scoring on their own goes, we traded Bob Sura and Mike James in for Anderson and Alston. By the way, another good example are the 03-04 Lakers. Just take a look at how Detroit shoved the wins down their throats. Payton and Malone were both good role players that were non factors against Detroit.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AznxBaller:</div><div class="quote_post">We had Bob Sura and Mike James who could both drive into the lane or hit jumpers on their own. Juwan Howard has an adequate post up game and can hit the midrange shot. Essentially, as far as scoring on their own goes, we traded Bob Sura and Mike James in for Anderson and Alston. By the way, another good example are the 03-04 Lakers. Just take a look at how Detroit shoved the wins down their throats. Payton and Malone were both good role players that were non factors against Detroit.</div> Well first, Bob Sura isn't a penetrator, and Mike James only created his own shot (when it was on). Both really aren't point guards. However, Skip is. That takes alot of pressure of Tmac when his shot isn't on. Skip can penetrate and create shots for Stro, DA, and others. As far as Juwan's post game, it doesn't exist. He's only effective as a spot up shooter. The difference between us and the 03-04 Lakers is, one, we're younger and alot more athletic. Second, our duo of Yao and Tmac are 5 times more unselfish than Shaq and Kobe were (and less ego). I think you're giving Detroit too much credit anyway. With a healthy Malone, and GP, I don't think the Pistons would be Champions
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Well first, Bob Sura isn't a penetrator, and Mike James only created his own shot (when it was on). Both really aren't point guards. However, Skip is. That takes alot of pressure of Tmac when his shot isn't on. Skip can penetrate and create shots for Stro, DA, and others. As far as Juwan's post game, it doesn't exist. He's only effective as a spot up shooter. The difference between us and the 03-04 Lakers is, one, we're younger and alot more athletic. Second, our duo of Yao and Tmac are 5 times more unselfish than Shaq and Kobe were (and less ego). </div> Well, you wanted players that could create their own offense. In this argument, Skip taking a lot of pressure off McGrady is meaningless. If Bob Sura isn't a penetrator, you're willing to say that he's a good shooter? He does a bit of both, but I'd say he's a slasher. You said Anderson and Swift can score on their own, well last year we had Sura, James, and if you would like to consider Howard. I feel you're totally missing the point of my argument. I'm saying that if teams figure out to shutdown our role players, we're not going to have too much success. Age doesn't matter that much when you're talking about skill and creating your own offense. I actually have more faith in Payton and Malone of the Lakers compared to Anderson and Swift of now. Yao and McGrady being unselfish means jack. If the other team limit the role players' points, the two stars passing more won't do anything. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I think you're giving Detroit too much credit anyway. With a healthy Malone, and GP, I don't think the Pistons would be Champions</div> Well, I don't think you're giving Detroit enough credit. Enough said.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Rock4life:</div><div class="quote_post">The answer is simple, NO. I've seen Yao have great games against both. Especially Ben, Yao ALWAYS outplays been in they're match up. I remember his rookie year, Ben said he would teach Yao a lesson. So the first play of the game (in Detroit), Yao gets the ball in the post, backs down, and DUNKS on Big Ben. Classic momment </div>I'd hate to begin another Yao/Ben debate, but last year, Yao averaged 13 ppg and 8.5 rpg against Wallace and Detroit while shooting 11-25 in two games combined. Against Denver in four games, Yao averaged 14 ppg and 8 rpg, shooting under 50% from the field. Stats don't work in your favor bro, and give me one big man then who can guard Yao.
Hate to bring up the arguement again too but Yao has not outplayed Ben Wallace everytime they have faced. Yao always seems to struggle with him and the Pistons in general. I can only remember one game where Yao actually played well. Back to what was being talked about, Yao can be stopped when you play pysical defense and try and bang away in the post. When he actually gets it downlow he can be very tough to stop. Players that like to play tough and rough always give him problems. Oh and since when was GP injured during the finals a few season back? he just sucked and got owned. Pistons were already dominating the Lakers even before Malone's injury BTW
I agree with Rock4Life. This year we added a lot of guys who can create their own shot. The biggest thing against us last year was that it ended at tmac and yao. All good teams have three reliable options. The rockets have that now with Swift. He can go out and give us big numbers. Three guys putting up big numbers is a lot more effecitve. How can you say we had any of that last year. Neither Sura, James, nor Howard were reliable scorers on this team. They had big games here and there, but that as often as bad games. On daily basis, you cant count on them for more than 10 points. Their main role on this team was just to take attention off tmac and yao and to hit open jumpers.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Locke:</div><div class="quote_post">I'd hate to begin another Yao/Ben debate, but last year, Yao averaged 13 ppg and 8.5 rpg against Wallace and Detroit while shooting 11-25 in two games combined. Against Denver in four games, Yao averaged 14 ppg and 8 rpg, shooting under 50% from the field. Stats don't work in your favor bro, and give me one big man then who can guard Yao.</div> those numbers are slightly skewed since i'm sure Yao saw double teams when he got the ball in the post.. and double team of Rasheed and Ben Wallace is not an easy one to score on. I don't think you can see accurate numbers unless you go through game film and record shot attempts on 1 on 1 possessions.
pretty nice and accurate predictions.I thin the rockets can finish second,they jus have to play well together.They could also make it to the finals wit good play.I hope they do it,cuz their like my 2nd fav team so ,lets go rockets!
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AznxBaller:</div><div class="quote_post">I'm saying that if teams figure out to shutdown our role players, we're not going to have too much success.</div> All I'm saying is it's harder to stop our role players if they feed off our superstars. Yao and Tmac command special attention every game, and that opens up the floor for our role players. If they let Tracy and Yao get theirs, then it'll be a very long night for the opposing team (plus foul trouble for whoever guarding them) <div class="quote_poster">Quoting AllNet:</div><div class="quote_post">Hate to bring up the arguement again too but Yao has not outplayed Ben Wallace everytime they have faced. Yao always seems to struggle with him and the Pistons in general. I can only remember one game where Yao actually played well..</div> Well Yao has outplayed and scored on Ben very easily in just about every game they've played. Not only fadeaway jump shots, put he even posterized Ben. Ben's a good defender, but Yao is simply too big for him. NOTE: Please watch the Rockets vs Pistons game this year, it'll answer alot of questions.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Well Yao has outplayed and scored on Ben very easily in just about every game they've played. Not only fadeaway jump shots, put he even posterized Ben. Ben's a good defender, but Yao is simply too big for him.</div> Last season in their only meeting Yao Ming-7 points, 10 rebounds on 2-9 shooting Ben Wallace-15 points 10 rebounds on 6-8 shooting with 3 blocks Don't know the stats for the year before but Yao barely shoot well then as well. Facts remain in past seasons he has struggled with Ben Wallace. What happens this year remains to be seen. Don't go about making statements that simply aren't true.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">All I'm saying is it's harder to stop our role players if they feed off our superstars. Yao and Tmac command special attention every game, and that opens up the floor for our role players. If they let Tracy and Yao get theirs, then it'll be a very long night for the opposing team (plus foul trouble for whoever guarding them)</div> And all I'm saying is what if teams don't feed off our superstars and strictly keep it man to man. Think outside the box for once. Of course, McGrady and Yao will go off, but that leaves the question of whether or not our role players will be able to put up enough points if they are given that much defensive attention. It doesn't have to be a long night, the other guys just stick to the role players and McGrady and Yao will at most combine for something like seventy five points per game. Check out the Detroit vs Lakers series. When Prince and Ben Wallace was guarding Kobe and Shaq respectively, they actually didn't foul that much and were able to get into the face of their opposition so much that Kobe and Shaq couldn't be as productive.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AznxBaller:</div><div class="quote_post">And all I'm saying is what if teams don't feed off our superstars and strictly keep it man to man. Think outside the box for once. Of course, McGrady and Yao will go off, but that leaves the question of whether or not our role players will be able to put up enough points if they are given that much defensive attention. It doesn't have to be a long night, the other guys just stick to the role players and McGrady and Yao will at most combine for something like seventy five points per game. Check out the Detroit vs Lakers series. When Prince and Ben Wallace was guarding Kobe and Shaq respectively, they actually didn't foul that much and were able to get into the face of their opposition so much that Kobe and Shaq couldn't be as productive.</div> Well it seems you keep referencing to the 03-04 Lakers to validate your point. Like I said before, with a healthy Karl Malone and GP, I don't think the Pistons would be champs. Plus, I can't really see your connection between the Rockets and the 03Lakers anyway. Our team is TOTALLY different, and we don't have near as many egos. This is where we disagree. If teams let Tmac and Yao get theirs and clamp down on the role players, and expect to win, it ain't that easy. DA and Stro for one can create they're own shot. If Tmac and Yao pick N' roll at the top of the key, somebody is guranteed a great shot. Its too many ways we can score. Then lets say DA and Stro pick N' roll, the same outcome. Teams will have a very hard time stopping the Rockets this year. It's a "pick your poison" type of thing. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Locke:</div><div class="quote_post">Stats don't work in your favor bro, and give me one big man then who can guard Yao.</div> I stated that just about every time the Rockets play the Pistons, Yao outplays Ben. I stick by that too. Nobody can guard Yao one on one.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AznxBaller:</div><div class="quote_post">How? He's in his prime. Twenty eight years old and he can't run fast? Oh please.</div> Umm its obvious isn't it? Well, because Sura wont D up on him and Alston will have to. Speed is all you need to stop Terry. We saw that in the 6 game series they had w/ Phoenix right after.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Umm its obvious isn't it? Well, because Sura wont D up on him and Alston will have to. Speed is all you need to stop Terry. We saw that in the 6 game series they had w/ Phoenix right after.</div> Since speed is all you need to stop Terry, then technically, logically, and rationally wouldn't you say Terry is a speedy player if he needs fast players to guard him? But just for the heck of it, here's what he did against Phoenix. Against Phoenix he only suffered from one bad game while the other five he had 13, 12, 14, 17, and 36 points with .600, .500, .500, .471, and .521 field goal percentage. Apparently, we saw right after that Terry is sick when it comes to quickness. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Well it seems you keep referencing to the 03-04 Lakers to validate your point. Like I said before, with a healthy Karl Malone and GP, I don't think the Pistons would be champs. Plus, I can't really see your connection between the Rockets and the 03Lakers anyway. Our team is TOTALLY different, and we don't have near as many egos.</div> Our teams are totally different, how? Yao and McGrady are Shaq and Kobe lite. I'm not trying to prove that the Lakers would have lost if Malone and Payton were healthy (which they were until Malone in like game three), but rather how if good defensive teams shut down role players, they can take care of us. I really don't see too much difference between our team and their team. There's Payton and Alston at point guard who can pass somewhat and score. Malone and Swift can both hit mid rangers and bang inside. Where's the difference? If ego's mattered so much, how come they got to the Finals? In my opinion, the media scrutinized Kobe and Shaq's relationship way too much just to get attention. They both got their fair share of shots so its not like Shaq didn't get the ball as much as he used to. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">This is where we disagree. If teams let Tmac and Yao get theirs and clamp down on the role players, and expect to win, it ain't that easy. DA and Stro for one can create they're own shot. If Tmac and Yao pick N' roll at the top of the key, somebody is guranteed a great shot. Its too many ways we can score. Then lets say DA and Stro pick N' roll, the same outcome. Teams will have a very hard time stopping the Rockets this year. It's a "pick your poison" type of thing.</div> Stromile can create his shot? Your kidding right? He mostly gets put backs and dunks or popping out to get open mid rangers. You want to rely on Anderson for scoring? The same guy that had .376 or .389 field goal percentage the past two seasons when teams actually didn't cheat and double team off him? If McGrady and Yao pick and roll at the top of the key, thats their points, role players don't really benefit that much. I can't see the pick and roll getting us like eighty five points. If Anderson and Swift pick and roll, I can't see it working. Teams won't be doubling one guy because they don't have the same caliber McGrady or Yao do so they really aren't that intimitated.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AznxBaller:</div><div class="quote_post">Our teams are totally different, how? Yao and McGrady are Shaq and Kobe lite. I'm not trying to prove that the Lakers would have lost if Malone and Payton were healthy (which they were until Malone in like game three), but rather how if good defensive teams shut down role players, they can take care of us. I really don't see too much difference between our team and their team. There's Payton and Alston at point guard who can pass somewhat and score. Malone and Swift can both hit mid rangers and bang inside.</div> First, the only thing Shaq and Yao have in common is there both giants. Their games are totally different. Tmac and Kobe are somewhat alike, but I don't think Tmac will mind scoring 15pts and winning. Kobe and Shaq as a duo were better, but I think our role players will have a bigger impact. I also think Tmac and Yao know how to get other players involved better. A better comparison would be to San Antonio. But that's just me. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting AznxBaller:</div><div class="quote_post">Stromile can create his shot? Your kidding right? He mostly gets put backs and dunks or popping out to get open mid rangers.</div> Stro's added a jump hook to his arsenal. Plus I think his quikness at PF, will give him the advantage to the rim. He's good for atleast 8-12 pts. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting AznxBaller:</div><div class="quote_post"> If McGrady and Yao pick and roll at the top of the key, thats their points, role players don't really benefit that much. I can't see the pick and roll getting us like eighty five points. If Anderson and Swift pick and roll, I can't see it working. Teams won't be doubling one guy because they don't have the same caliber McGrady or Yao do so they really aren't that intimitated.</div> Trust me, when Yao and Tracy pick N' roll, it will open the floor for everybody. Then Tmac will get his points one on one, and the same for Yao. DA and Stro's pick N' roll might not be as effective, but can be in little spurts. Either give DA a open midrange shot, or give Swift a shot, or dunk. Or Skip can also run it too. This debate can go both ways, but I honestly feel like your underestimating our role players.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AllNet:</div><div class="quote_post">Last season in their only meeting Yao Ming-7 points, 10 rebounds on 2-9 shooting Ben Wallace-15 points 10 rebounds on 6-8 shooting with 3 blocks Don't know the stats for the year before but Yao barely shoot well then as well. Facts remain in past seasons he has struggled with Ben Wallace. What happens this year remains to be seen. Don't go about making statements that simply aren't true.</div> I don't want to get into this argument, but I would like to just say that that was the first game of the season. Make your own assumtions. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting AznxBaller:</div><div class="quote_post">And all I'm saying is what if teams don't feed off our superstars and strictly keep it man to man. Think outside the box for once. Of course, McGrady and Yao will go off, but that leaves the question of whether or not our role players will be able to put up enough points if they are given that much defensive attention. It doesn't have to be a long night, the other guys just stick to the role players and McGrady and Yao will at most combine for something like seventy five points per game. Check out the Detroit vs Lakers series. When Prince and Ben Wallace was guarding Kobe and Shaq respectively, they actually didn't foul that much and were able to get into the face of their opposition so much that Kobe and Shaq couldn't be as productive.</div> This I would love to get in on lol... So basically you are saying any team can just shut down the Houston Rockets role players and expect to win? Your right...as of the 04-05 season. I don't know how the hell we made it til game seven w/o anyone finding this out but Avery. OUR TEAM HAD NO DEPTH LAST YEAR! 3/5 of our starters last year are second string this year. As of this season, we do have depth. The Rockets organization realized that just letting Sura, Wesley, and Howard play off 2 guys wasn't going to cut it. So what on earth did we do to fix that? Maybe we decided to upgrade every position, and have more depth. We have guys that can score now. Swift and Anderson will play more than just role players. They will have numbers a little higher than that of a role player, but they will make our team a lot better. Just wait and see. If your saying most teams can do that against the Rockets this season than you will be proven wrong. Not every team has a PF that can just flat out shut down Swift. The fact that he is next to Yao, will really be nice. Derek Anderson can not just be shut down by any one. Alston is a PG. According to what your saying, If I shut down all of Miami's role players (last season that is) and let Shaq and Wade go crazy, they would lose? Or if I shut down a whole team of just role players they wouldn't score? Honestly what exactly are you trying to say. NO TEAM HAS ENOUGH DEFENSE TO SHUT DOWN SWIFT, ANDERSON, AND ALSTON TO LESS THAN 25 POINTS A GAME PLAYING MAN TO MAN D. EVEN IF THEY PLAYED STRICTLY MAN TO MAN. AND CAUSE OUR SG, PG, AND PF SPOTS OVERALL TO SCORE LESS THAN 35. THAT WOULD BE CRAZY! OK lets say SA playing strictly man to man against the Rockets and is trying to shut down our role players/bench: PG - Parker holds Alston to 8 points. SG - Ginobli holds down Anderson to 8 points. PF - Duncan holds down Swift to 9 points. 25 points. For those three. Can you really shut them down to 3-5 points? Hell no. Not all at once at least. Bench - 12 points (worst case scenario) T-Mac - 28 (because its strictly man to man) Yao - 26 (man to man) Total: 91. If the defensive team of the year played strictly man to man, it lookst like we would score well against them. Nice theory. Correct my numbers if I am wrong.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">This I would love to get in on lol... So basically you are saying any team can just shut down the Houston Rockets role players and expect to win? Your right...as of the 04-05 season. I don't know how the hell we made it til game seven w/o anyone finding this out but Avery. OUR TEAM HAD NO DEPTH LAST YEAR! 3/5 of our starters last year are second string this year. As of this season, we do have depth. The Rockets organization realized that just letting Sura, Wesley, and Howard play off 2 guys wasn't going to cut it.</div> Welcome, looks like this will be even more fun. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">So what on earth did we do to fix that? Maybe we decided to upgrade every position, and have more depth. We have guys that can score now. Swift and Anderson will play more than just role players. They will have numbers a little higher than that of a role player, but they will make our team a lot better. Just wait and see.</div> By saying we have guys that can score now, are you implying that Sura, Howard, and Wesley couldn't score? Swift and Anderson are currently only role players, nothing more. Maybe Swift if he pushes himself further, but you're giving too much credit to Anderson. He's around the same as Wesley, maybe slightly better because of his speed. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">If your saying most teams can do that against the Rockets this season than you will be proven wrong. Not every team has a PF that can just flat out shut down Swift. The fact that he is next to Yao, will really be nice. Derek Anderson can not just be shut down by any one. Alston is a PG.</div> Well, in the West there are Garnett, Odom, Duncan, Gasol, Boozer, Abdur Rahim, Martin, Brand, Marion, and Nowitzki. All elite level powerforwards that have the ability to at least limit Swift's points to a minimal. Anderson doesn't need to be shut down, he can play himself out. His field goal percentages are subpar for the past couple seasons and isn't that effective of a shooter. In some cases, he can hurt our team more than help. Alston's a point guard? Really wow I had no idea. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">According to what your saying, If I shut down all of Miami's role players (last season that is) and let Shaq and Wade go crazy, they would lose? Or if I shut down a whole team of just role players they wouldn't score? Honestly what exactly are you trying to say.</div> Miami of last year I would actually rate higher than ours of this year. They had Eddie Jones who can score on his own even without from his defender cheating off him as well as being a much better shooter than any we had last season while Udonis Haslem is a slightly better rebounder than Swift. Thus, he can do more of the little things compared to Swift who just relies on his freak athleticism to get his points with one or two jumpers here and there. My point is, if you limit the points of every player besides Yao and McGrady, we have a great chance of losing than winning. I'm sticking to that. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">NO TEAM HAS ENOUGH DEFENSE TO SHUT DOWN SWIFT, ANDERSON, AND ALSTON TO LESS THAN 25 POINTS A GAME PLAYING MAN TO MAN D. EVEN IF THEY PLAYED STRICTLY MAN TO MAN. AND CAUSE OUR SG, PG, AND PF SPOTS OVERALL TO SCORE LESS THAN 35. THAT WOULD BE CRAZY! </div> Wait, what? 35 points or 25 points are we talking here? No need to make it all caps, I don't have reading problem. If you haven't noticed, Swift has next to no low post game, and mainly gets points from putbacks or dunks and some jumpers here and there. If the powerforward just boxes him out, Swift is no big deal. Anderson had .427, .376, and .389 field goal percentage the past three seasons even with teams not playing tough defense against him. Again, no big deal. Alston is really the only thing that can potentially put us over against the other team with his driving ability and three pointers, but he's somewhat streaky and his defense is lackluster so you can expect the other guard to get a bit more points than usual. Wow, craziness. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">OK lets say SA playing strictly man to man against the Rockets and is trying to shut down our role players/bench: PG - Parker holds Alston to 8 points. SG - Ginobli holds down Anderson to 8 points. PF - Duncan holds down Swift to 9 points. 25 points. For those three. Can you really shut them down to 3-5 points? Hell no. Not all at once at least. </div> I'd actually put Anderson down to five points maybe for Ginobili since he wouldn't be getting the open jumpers he actually would from his days in Portland. You also need to factor in how much points Ginobili would be scoring on Anderson. Ginobli might be going off. Duncan might even hold Swift to seven points. If Swift tries posting up on him, Duncan will push him further out. Or, if Swift tries getting putbacks, there won't be that many since Duncan's an excellent fundamentalist and great at boxing out. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Bench - 12 points (worst case scenario) T-Mac - 28 (because its strictly man to man) Yao - 26 (man to man) Total: 91. If the defensive team of the year played strictly man to man, it lookst like we would score well against them. Nice theory. Correct my numbers if I am wrong.</div> Thats 86 points for my equation. Slightly off I guess. Still, do you honestly believe that San Antonio of this year would score less than 86 points against us? Or even 90.
Dang, you guys really overate Howard, Sura, James and underrate Swift, Anderson, and Alston. I dont know why yall think that Swift is trash. He is an allstar calaber player, it isnt his fault the top two players on the Grizzlies played the same position. Why do yall underate him so much? I dont get it.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Why do yall underate him so much? I dont get it.</div> Because the majority of the points he got last season were from put backs or dunks off of rebounds or scrap points. He has next to none low post game at all and really can't back his man down into the paint. The best things going for him offensively are athleticism and his mid range shot which he can hit from time to time. He certainly can break out this season, I'm not saying he won't, but history has shown that it isn't the player that everyone here seem to make him out to be.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AznxBaller:</div><div class="quote_post">By saying we have guys that can score now, are you implying that Sura, Howard, and Wesley couldn't score? Swift and Anderson are currently only role players, nothing more. Maybe Swift if he pushes himself further, but you're giving too much credit to Anderson. He's around the same as Wesley, maybe slightly better because of his speed.</div> The difference is our new players don't have to soley depend on Tracy and Yao. Just like I mentioned yesterday, Anderson can get his shots off pick N' roll. That's how he's got 95% of his points this preseason. The other 5% have been post ups, and off the dribble. It KILLS me because you keep saying he's similar to Wesley. They are NOT similar. Anderson, for one can actually dribble. 2nd, Anderson is a better athlete. 3rd, he's 4 inches taller and can play 3 positions. Once again, they are nowhere similar. Anderson is the better player, and will have a bigger impact this season.
