I have been watching this sport for quite some time now and this has always bothered me. Why is it many players in the NBA suck at shooting. By many I mean a good amount, not all. I mean you are getting paid millions to play a basketball game, so why the heck is it many players can't hit free throws, or open (jump)shots. I know some of it has to do with pressure, but a lot of vets (not just Shaq) suck at getting the ball into the hoop from 10-20 feet away. Ben Wallace (for example) has the body to easily knock down his free throws. I don't even play in the league and can hit at least 7-8/10 free throws. If I were getting paid all that money to do something I love, my FT average would at least have to be 85%. They do play the game enough to know what it takes right? Finesse and bodies (size) mean to much in the league IMO. I know this has come up many times before, but Basketball players in Europe can shoot, hit FTs, and hit an open jumper easily. If it were you, wouldn't you practice till you knew how to get knock down shots and free throws? I just don't get it. Almost everyone has a way/style/touch that works for them. Players that are just there for their size, and defense should still at least be capable of knocking down a 15 footer when left open. Yet many players still can't. Anyone else think shooting is becoming less important each year? Theres not a huge gap or anything, but it's noticeable.
Why? That's easy. Kids these days are too drawn into the Iverson crossovers and all that And1 like stuff. They forget to do the fundamentals. European players on the other hand are taught to be basketball players not stars like the US guys. They take things very serious overseas because at one time, quite some time ago actually guys used to get physically beaten for not doing things the right way when playing basketball. That is certainly not the case today, but things from the past never seem to go away. The overall determination and work ethic from back then seems to still be existent today I believe, primarily because the US is still far on the top when it comes to basketball. I'm sure that is there motivation. But back to what the original point of the topic, again kids these days are into the flashy and spectacular plays moreso than the simple things that will get the job done. Tim Duncan does nothing spectacular on the floor, but the reason he is so effective is because he does the simplest things and these guys don't know how to stop that maybe even because they don't work on the fundamentals like even defense. It?s all about the fundamentals. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Ben Wallace (for example) has the body to easily knock down his free throws. I don't even play in the league and can hit at least 7-8/10 free throws. If I were getting paid all that money to do something I love, my FT average would at least have to be 85%.</div> Ben Wallace is a PF. Big guys tend to struggle in that department, the greatest big guys of all time had the fundamentals down but still struggled in that department. That's just not Ben Wallace forte as well as many other big guys. Back to the guards and is to why they struggled. You can?t stress it enough how they rather do something to please the crowd then actually please the coach and team. Iverson for example was a horrendous shooter when he entered the league he did all these flashy stuff which wasn't necessary. He had the lighting quickness to do the simplest move and do what he has to do. That whole crossover, behind the back nonsense just wore him out and when it was time to shoot the ball he already lost his legs thus that explains the bricks. But as he matured and stopped doing all that flashy stuff he's learned to be more efficient and has jumper has improved dramatically over the course of the years. So to be concise the reason why guys can't shot now a day is a mixture of experience and simple fact that they don't work on the fundamentals.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Avery:</div><div class="quote_post">Why? That's easy. Kids these days are too drawn into the Iverson crossovers and all that And1 like stuff. They forget to do the fundamentals. European players on the other hand are taught to be basketball players not stars like the US guys. They take things very serious overseas because at one time, quite some time ago actually guys used to get physically beaten for not doing things the right way when playing basketball. That is certainly not the case today, but things from the past never seem to go away. The overall determination and work ethic from back then seems to still be existent today I believe, primarily because the US is still far on the top when it comes to basketball. I'm sure that is there motivation. But back to what the original point of the topic, again kids these days are into the flashy and spectacular plays moreso than the simple things that will get the job done. Tim Duncan does nothing spectacular on the floor, but the reason he is so effective is because he does the simplest things and these guys don't know how to stop that maybe even because they don't work on the fundamentals like even defense. It?s all about the fundamentals. Ben Wallace is a PF. Big guys tend to struggle in that department, the greatest big guys of all time had the fundamentals down but still struggled in that department. That's just not Ben Wallace forte as well as many other big guys. Back to the guards and is to why they struggled. You can?t stress it enough how they rather do something to please the crowd then actually please the coach and team. Iverson for example was a horrendous shooter when he entered the league he did all these flashy stuff which wasn't necessary. He had the lighting quickness to do the simplest move and do what he has to do. That whole crossover, behind the back nonsense just wore him out and when it was time to shoot the ball he already lost his legs thus that explains the bricks. But as he matured and stopped doing all that flashy stuff he's learned to be more efficient and has jumper has improved dramatically over the course of the years. So to be concise the reason why guys can't shot now a day is a mixture of experience and simple fact that they don't work on the fundamentals.</div> That may be true, but why the heck don't the players want to improve? If I was in the league, I would strive for improvement. If I had a 50% FT average, I would put in extra hours to improve that. I know big guys may struggle w/ FTs (Duncan), but almost anyone can improve themselves. If he put in an hour every 1-2 days/for one month on FTs he would have at least an 80% FT. It's not that hard... Players that miss open jumpers are...wow. Ryan Bowen, for example one of the best hustle players in the league. Teams would play off of him and leave him open, but he wasn't that good of a shooter. He put in extra hours, and has developed some wierd shot that works for him. He is a PF to. Maybe its because they play the game so much that they don't even want to touch a ball in there free time? They may be to busy to improve, but I guess if I were in the league I would love to improve my game every day.
E]That may be true, but why the heck don't the players want to improve? If I was in the league, I would strive for improvement. If I had a 50% FT average, I would put in extra hours to improve that. I know big guys may struggle w/ FTs (Duncan), but almost anyone can improve themselves. If he put in an hour every 1-2 days/for one month on FTs he would have at least an 80% FT. It's not that hard...[/QUOTE] Why won't players work on their shot? First of all when they enter the league, most of think they've really made it and they are set for life. It's really star players, the players that were already ?stars? when they enter the league that tend to feel that way. Players like Michael Redd, Ben Wallace and Zach Randolph weren?t HIGH draft picks and weren?t expect to be that next big thing thus they took things into their own hands and work to get at that level they are in right now. Unlike Iverson, LeBron, Duncan, KG or so on they weren?t give endorsements right off the bat, they worked for it. Ben Wallace was an un-drafted guy but he had/has amazing work ethic that is why he is an NBA Champ, an All-Star and one heck of a defensive player. The Kyle Korver?s and Tayshaun Prince knows at their talent level, tomorrow is not promise thus that?s why they work so hard and that is why they are surprise players in the league and they are making tons of money. Let me give you a small but a little more detailed summary on why guys don?t look to improve. When they are selected from the Draft they are not half the player that they are destined to be, they?re rookies so of course that is the case. However, at the same time you, I and corporate America sees the potential though. So before they even play an NBA game they are getting TONS of endorsements. So when you take the money they are making off the court and the contract money they will be making with the teams, what else is there to work for other than try to maintain at the level you already in when millions of dollars are coming to you? The money get to their heads and their main object is to now make money, and basketball comes second. Just look how Artest is out to make his money on the ?side? with his music company or how Sprewell opened his own car rim company. When you have all that money, what's the use of a "worthless" NBA Championship? With the money they make they could but their entire family & friends NBA Championships rings with their names on it. They have all the money in the world, so therefore they don't work hard for anything. That's what I think is wrong with the NBA today, everything now a days is based on potential and that?s not necessarily bad it?s that shoe companies and all the other companies out there are just waiting for that next big thing to come along so they can spoil him to death. When guys get things easily and don?t really have to work for it they start taking life easy and in this case basketball easy. It gives them very poooor work ethic and they don't look to improve their game, rather they look to improve their popularity to get more bucks. Why do you think all the best shooters and best overall players played in the early 80's to late 90's? The reason being is because those guys had to WORK before anything was given to them. They were gym rats and were always out work on their game just to get that one sneaker deal while in contrary players these days are getting stuff in a matter of two years that took guys like Barkley for example to get in his whole career. Honestly, would you really look to improve all that much when you already set talent wise(even though you can get better) and popularity wise? Truthfully if I was in that position where everything was given to me early and not having to work for it, I wouldn't be looking to improve my game all that much. I would just try to maintain the level that I am which got me all these endorsements let things flow on their own. I hope you understood what I said, because that is the logical reason why so many of our ?superstars? can do something as simple as shooting.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Avery:</div><div class="quote_post">E]That may be true, but why the heck don't the players want to improve? If I was in the league, I would strive for improvement. If I had a 50% FT average, I would put in extra hours to improve that. I know big guys may struggle w/ FTs (Duncan), but almost anyone can improve themselves. If he put in an hour every 1-2 days/for one month on FTs he would have at least an 80% FT. It's not that hard...</div> Why won't players work on their shot? First of all when they enter the league, most of think they've really made it and they are set for life. It's really star players, the players that were already “stars” when they enter the league that tend to feel that way. Players like Michael Redd, Ben Wallace and Zach Randolph weren’t HIGH draft picks and weren’t expect to be that next big thing thus they took things into their own hands and work to get at that level they are in right now. Unlike Iverson, LeBron, Duncan, KG or so on they weren’t give endorsements right off the bat, they worked for it. Ben Wallace was an un-drafted guy but he had/has amazing work ethic that is why he is an NBA Champ, an All-Star and one heck of a defensive player. The Kyle Korver’s and Tayshaun Prince knows at their talent level, tomorrow is not promise thus that’s why they work so hard and that is why they are surprise players in the league and they are making tons of money. Let me give you a small but a little more detailed summary on why guys don’t look to improve. When they are selected from the Draft they are not half the player that they are destined to be, they’re rookies so of course that is the case. However, at the same time you, I and corporate America sees the potential though. So before they even play an NBA game they are getting TONS of endorsements. So when you take the money they are making off the court and the contract money they will be making with the teams, what else is there to work for other than try to maintain at the level you already in when millions of dollars are coming to you? The money get to their heads and their main object is to now make money, and basketball comes second. Just look how Artest is out to make his money on the “side” with his music company or how Sprewell opened his own car rim company. When you have all that money, what's the use of a "worthless" NBA Championship? With the money they make they could but their entire family & friends NBA Championships rings with their names on it. They have all the money in the world, so therefore they don't work hard for anything. That's what I think is wrong with the NBA today, everything now a days is based on potential and that’s not necessarily bad it’s that shoe companies and all the other companies out there are just waiting for that next big thing to come along so they can spoil him to death. When guys get things easily and don’t really have to work for it they start taking life easy and in this case basketball easy. It gives them very poooor work ethic and they don't look to improve their game, rather they look to improve their popularity to get more bucks. Why do you think all the best shooters and best overall players played in the early 80's to late 90's? The reason being is because those guys had to WORK before anything was given to them. They were gym rats and were always out work on their game just to get that one sneaker deal while in contrary players these days are getting stuff in a matter of two years that took guys like Barkley for example to get in his whole career. Honestly, would you really look to improve all that much when you already set talent wise(even though you can get better) and popularity wise? Truthfully if I was in that position where everything was given to me early and not having to work for it, I wouldn't be looking to improve my game all that much. I would just try to maintain the level that I am which got me all these endorsements let things flow on their own. I hope you understood what I said, because that is the logical reason why so many of our “superstars” can do something as simple as shooting.[/QUOTE] Yes I understand it fully now. Thanks for going into detail, I really do appreciate it. This was something that always bothered me, and I like how you used the 80s-90s NBA players as an example. I guess the players can't be blamed really. When you tihnk of it, many players could shoot well back then, and were not considered stars at all. The league has went soft I guess. Players are only asked to do there job, and not improve. The league has changed for the worse, but it is kind of fun to watch at the same time.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I guess the players can't be blamed really.</div> I disagree. The players should be blamed. Okay, so what if you're getting all these deals, it's up to you to look beyond that and continue what you must do. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> The league has went soft I guess.</div> I don't think it's necessairly gone soft, it's more like of a money making buisness over anything now.
ok first of all shaq practiced a LOT on his freethrows during offseason, or his free time its just some people cant aim that good if you say you are so good do you play any organized ball? whats your shooting percentage oh wait do you even get any minutes at all
I think this ties in with the whole age limit thing. Guys are so focused on being stars and making money that they don't even take the time to go to (free) college anymore. Many guys go to college and that's where they are forced to learn fundamentals because college coaches won't tolerate a player who can't do simple things like hit open jumpers.
Let's not also forget that shooting a basketball, no matter the level of talent, with the hand of an incredibly athletic and intuitive basketball player in your face is a challenging thing. The reason field goal percentages aren't what they once were is because of the influence of defensive evolution. For all we hear about run-and-shoot offenses, and Dean Smith and Frank Keaney and Al McGuire and Jack Ramsey and Bob Knight, we don't hear half as much about full court presses, or Clarence Gaines or John Chaney or Sam Berry or Pete Newell. Each one of the aforementioned men has revoltionized the way the game was played defensively, and what many of us don't realize is that for every great leap forward we see in the offensive game, there is an equal and opposite leap on the "other" side of the ball. The more we see games evolve above the rim, and playmakers create new styles and new shots, we will see others create new defensive schemes and tactics, and we will see equally imporant role players taketh away from these playmakers. As played out as this all sounds, I would like to see how your reaction time changes if you are thrown into a game with players this quick, agile, and competently trained. Not only would you lose about 99% of your opportunity to react, you would resort to plays that many would observe to be "bone-headed." Plays like that are the result of one player thinking two steps ahead of another, and more than anything else, that has been what has brought basketball so far.
Bad shooting isn't some recent phenomenon. Bill Russel is regarded as one of the greatest players of all time, and he couldn't shoot much better than Ben Wallace.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting durvasa:</div><div class="quote_post">Bad shooting isn't some recent phenomenon. Bill Russel is regarded as one of the greatest players of all time, and he couldn't shoot much better than Ben Wallace.</div> I don't think the conversation was essentially as limited as one player to the next, but more of a phenomenon of overall player output. In the last twenty years alone, we've seen a significant drop off in offensive production. I don't think it's because the players aren't talented though, quite to the contrary, I think it's because some players are even more talented. Bill Russell was one of the first in that category of players that brought about defensive evolution. His understanding and implementation of the craft of shot blocking has made an impression on every generation of great defensive big men since his day.
I think he was more talking about guys like Ben Wallace not being able to hit open shots (like, without a big hulking athlete putting a hand in their face) and free throws. For instance, Reggie Evans has been known to brick unguarded layups at times. There is no excuse for that.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Avery:</div><div class="quote_post">Why? That's easy. Kids these days are too drawn into the Iverson crossovers and all that And1 like stuff. They forget to do the fundamentals. European players on the other hand are taught to be basketball players not stars like the US guys. They take things very serious overseas because at one time, quite some time ago actually guys used to get physically beaten for not doing things the right way when playing basketball. That is certainly not the case today, but things from the past never seem to go away. The overall determination and work ethic from back then seems to still be existent today I believe, primarily because the US is still far on the top when it comes to basketball. I'm sure that is there motivation. But back to what the original point of the topic, again kids these days are into the flashy and spectacular plays moreso than the simple things that will get the job done. Tim Duncan does nothing spectacular on the floor, but the reason he is so effective is because he does the simplest things and these guys don't know how to stop that maybe even because they don't work on the fundamentals like even defense. It’s all about the fundamentals. Ben Wallace is a PF. Big guys tend to struggle in that department, the greatest big guys of all time had the fundamentals down but still struggled in that department. That's just not Ben Wallace forte as well as many other big guys. Back to the guards and is to why they struggled. You can’t stress it enough how they rather do something to please the crowd then actually please the coach and team. Iverson for example was a horrendous shooter when he entered the league he did all these flashy stuff which wasn't necessary. He had the lighting quickness to do the simplest move and do what he has to do. That whole crossover, behind the back nonsense just wore him out and when it was time to shoot the ball he already lost his legs thus that explains the bricks. But as he matured and stopped doing all that flashy stuff he's learned to be more efficient and has jumper has improved dramatically over the course of the years. So to be concise the reason why guys can't shot now a day is a mixture of experience and simple fact that they don't work on the fundamentals.</div> Fundamentals are slowly making their way back into the inner city/suburban game. High school coaches are helping this along. I think the reason Shaq would make about 20% from 15-20 feet would be because of his body/strength. Take a guy like Ray Allen, who would probably score around 60 to 70% of his points off jumpers. He's spent literally thousands of hours just shooting, and using that repetition to build muscle memory, so when he shoots it's virtually the same form everytime. Somebody like Shaq WOULD'NT have to shoot jumpers, he probably shoots one every several games or so, the reality is that even though a Shaq who could shoot threes would be incredibly dangerous, it just doesn't fit. MOST superstars tend to be great in one area and good in the rest. Like Iverson with scoring. Players like KG, Lebron just happen to have the tools necessary to be great in a few areas. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Seattle.:</div><div class="quote_post">I think this ties in with the whole age limit thing. Guys are so focused on being stars and making money that they don't even take the time to go to (free) college anymore. Many guys go to college and that's where they are forced to learn fundamentals because college coaches won't tolerate a player who can't do simple things like hit open jumpers.</div> True, but that's in the case of a player like Darius Miles. Lebron, TMac, KG, Kobe, etc.. were all drafted because they had the potential and didn't need to gradually develop like when you enter college ball.
