Pietrus Being Counted on for More than Fun

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Kwan1031:</div><div class="quote_post">You also have to remember that Pietrus is Saint's choice, not Mullin's choice. At that draft day, Saint wanted Pietrus while Mullin wanted Zarko. Right after that draft Mullin became unofficial GM. Till now, I haven't heard Mullin speaking anything positive toward Pietrus other than default GM lipservice. It really is bittersweet when Pietrus change the tempo of the game with his speed and defense in last few games...</div>

Well I'd have to say that Saint made the right choice by going with Pietrus in the draft rather than Zarko, he's obviously a better player off the bench. But we have both anyway. As for the big guys contracts, they will have I'm guessing 4 years before they become FA? We can sign Pietrus to a short contract before the big men need to be signed, and by then Fisher and Foyle's bloated contracts will be over as well.

 

If Zarko was a better rebounder and he was more lights out from the perimeter, I think he'd be getting more minutes. Unfortunately...

Anyway, I like Zarko.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Run BJM:</div><div class="quote_post">Good idea but no player would take a short contract when they could take a longer term one probably for at least as much money, and in Pietrus's case he could easily be a starter on alot of other teams.</div>

A starter that we need to keep on our bench, and possibly in our future starting line up as well.

 

If Dunleavy can't get it togather quick, Pietrus will soon be the main SF even if Dunleavy still starts. The last few games Pietrus' role was much bigger.

If Cohen wants to have a winner,to get among the elite few,it will cost. The Warriors are pretty much built from the ground up,with Baron the only major import,and most of the rest,our draft picks. The Warriors have no recent history,reputation,no famous coach or perennial All-Star. We need to let the talent ripen. we may,someday, trade someone,but we can let his value grow for now. The playoffs put butts in the seats. Going 2 rounds into the playoffs adds to revenue. $65 mill and no playoffs vs $70 mill and you play 2 rounds in the playoffs...the extra income covers a lot of that extra payroll.

 

Well, its really unfortunate to let go of Pietrus. The guy brings excitement to the fans, not unlike Mr. Larry Bird Lite?. If Mullin let's Pietrus slip, I feel its a big mistake. His defense plays a big roll in our success. Only other swingman I see that can play like Pietrus might be Raja Bell.

 

You think Jerry West would really want Pietrus? (West wanted MP in 03) I think Dahntay Jones is basically the same guy, but without the 3-point range.

A team that might like Pietrus might be some open court team like Denver or Chicago. Washington and New York would make sense as well. A lot of those teams already have max contract players or players that will command near the max.

Hopefully Pietrus doesn't get really good that other teams will overpay for him and then we can keep him. If Pietrus can suddenly understand basketball at least on the level of Desmond Mason or where Jrich is at now, I think Pietrus could be an allstar. But since he only has guts, athleticism, and a knack for getting things done in his own way, he's caught in between being just a bench guy or a fringe starter. No coach would play him at starter unless they were desperate, they ran no plays anyway or had the situation to develop him and let him play through mistakes (like we did with Jrich, except Jrich had better court sense even though he was equally wreckless handling the ball like Pietrus was).

One thing is for sure Pietrus seems like he could be an elite shooting guard if the fundamentals were there. He would seem like the type to be a mini Kobe Bryant and just deliver the big shots if he had some kind of finesse and smarts to his game. He's got no moves other than drive hard at the basket and throw it up or shoot the three ball. But damn, the fact he is so effective with such a low-basketball I.Q. and lack of courtvision is a sign he could be very awesome one day if he ever does get it. The work ethic is certainly there, but his learning progress has been slow. Dfish and Baron Davis both love him. Fans love his hustle, his impact and the way he respresents the franchise so fervently.

 

Like Wtwalker or Clif or somebody mentioned, the 2003 signings will be very interesting this offseason.

Here are players that probably will command maximum contract or near maximum contracts.

Lebron James
Carmelo Anthony
Chris Bosh
Dwayne Wade
Kirk Hinrich



TJ Ford could get something big as long as he doesn't get hurt, without him the Bucks certainly don't look playoff bound.

Leandrino Barbosa might get something decent.

Nick Collison or Mike Sweetney might get something decent if they're averaging 16 and 8. Neither player has that much upside, but are effective rebounders and low post scorers.

Josh Howard might get something nice from some other team looking for a James Posey type player. I bet most teams in the offseason won't have too much capspace to work with since teams of those types have to overpay or have overpaid for free agents. So if we do something with Pietrus it'll be sign and trade for draft picks and expiring deals most likely.

Maybe we can swing something with Orlando to give them a bunch of contracts they can play around with for an expiring Grant Hill Deal.

This might suck, but we could do a deal for Grant Hill using Pietrus, Foyle, Fisher.

That would leave us Aaron Miles/Montay Ellis to use as backup point guards, Taft/Biedrins to use as centers. Who knows, maybe A. Miles could be our version of Chris Duhon and Ellis could be like Gilbert Arenas. Taft could be like a version of Erick Dampier meets Chris Wilcox and Biedrins could be Tyson Chandler meets Jeff Foster and maybe grow into something more if his offense comes along.

For shooting guard, we could sign a FA for the mid level exception or just draft one in the 2006 draft.

Orlando has a lot of payroll so they probably wouldn't do this, but they get some good veteran characters, a distance shooter or two, a promisng talent they can develop and take a look at, and a backup center. Plus Twardzick makes anything possible.

(one of the knocks on Nelson, Francis, Deshawn Stevenson is they can't shoot real well from distance) Once Cato comes off the books that'll leave Tony Battie as the starting center. If they make Dwight Howard get minutes at center, that'd be a waste since he can shoot some perimeter shots and is athletic to be a good, tall mismatch inside and out at power forward. They probably are better off using Battie and could use another backup center since there aren't really any other power forwards on the roster that could start if Howard moves to center.

The deal could probably leave them at 45 mil total salary. We remove bad contracts, but at the same time who the heck saves our butts on most nights off the bench? It's been Fisher and Pietrus. Also Foyle really protects the basket. It might be a lot to give up for an over the hill Hill's expiring contract, but it would give Miles, Taft, Biedrins, Ellis even more responsibility and pressure to fill the void left by the guys departing. Hill might be an effective veteran and charismatic floor leader if Dunleavy just isn't getting it done on some nights. It might be a good gamble long term, but devastating short term.

Also in a play for Minny, we can do Murphy, Foyle, Diogu, Pietrus for Kevin Garnett.

That would leave us with

C - Taft
PF - Kevin Garnett
SF - Dunleavy
SG - Jrich
PG - Baron Davis

That would leave us with no post presence since Garnett isn't really a post player, but he sure would emulate having another playmaker and consistent scorer on the floor and would fix our rebounding problem. Biedrins could cover either power forward or center off the bench, until he is ready to play skillwise and is physically mature to handle any nba center matchup.

Zarko could play PF and continue to develop there as sort of a Toni Kukoc type player, Cheany plays small forward, Fisher/Ellis plays shooting guard, and Fisher/Miles is backup point. We can then use the draft to fill in some needs.

If for some reason Minny doesn't want Ike or Pietrus, we'd probably be using some draft picks and probably making it unprotected to make it more lucrative.

Here's the Minny trade I would totally be happy with (Murphy, Fish, Foyle + unprotected draft pick for Garnett).

C - Kevin Garnett (in a Rasheed Wallace role)
PF - Ike Diogu
SF - Mike Dunleavy Jr.
SG - Jason Richardson
PG - Baron Davis

C - Taft/Biedrins/Zarko
PF - Taft/Biedrins/Zarko
SF - Pietrus/Calbert Cheaney/Zarko
SG - Pietrus/Ellis
PG - Miles/Ellis

I think I would love this lineup the best:

C - Chris Taft
PF - Ike Diogu
SF - Kevin Garnett
SG - Jason Richardson
PG - Baron Davis

Once Biedrins is ready... he will be awesome and he'll do it in front of his idol.

 

I hate to say it but when was the last time you saw a player "get it", basketball IQ wise, if they did not have it after 3 years in the league?

I have a hard time thinking of anyone. I love Pietrus' hustle and commitment to D and energy but I think what you see is what you get.

Its like everyone always thinking they can make a college SG a PG (Joe Johnson, Jamal Crawford, AI, etc.). It rarely, if ever, happens. Why? Because PGs are PGs from a very early stage who understand what it means to be responsible for bringing the ball up and distributing it so that the other 4 guys do not feel left out. A PG does not merely bring it up against pressure. A PG has to take the ball after every transition and then choose where it goes next. A shooting PG is just trouble waiting to happen because no one is taking the initiative to reward the rebounders, the defenders.

Anyways, Pietrus is a valuable commodity who should be resigned but he's going to always be the athletic energy guy.

 

Nobody expect Pietrus to be Kidd all of the sudden. We hope Pietrus to be effective and relative mistake free from what he is doing, and there are plenty of players who accomplished after being nobody in first couple years. Guys like Tmac or J. O'neal played like they have no clue in first few years, but when they received a chance, they really improved themselves. Or, guys like Jamison or Richardson are other examples. I remember many people ripping them for being clueless in first two years. But, as they built up experiences, they turned out to be quite smart and effective players on the court. Heck, at least those guys had a chance to build experiences as a starters. Pietrus barely got mins in his first two years, but even with that condition, he improved a lot in two years period. There are tons of raw players who became effective ones after few years. Besides, what's good for basketball IQ, if you don't produce anything? Pietrus may not be the smartest player in our club, but he is already quite productive player and has been improved a lot in limited opportunity. After all, at the end of the game, only baskeball scores matter instead of combination of basketball IQ...

 

What I meant when KG would veto the trade is that he will simply makes a threat to not to report. In contract wise, nobody in NBA has a veto power, but that method has been quite effective. Besides, teams that will ask for KG will definitely ask KG whether he wants to be the part of the club or not, since they have to make a huge deal. If KG says he doesn't want to be certain teams, it's most likely that those clubs won't make a run for KG.

Well, KG just ripped McHale. Slowly, it's getting there...

 

This works too:

KG for Dunleavy, Fisher, Foyle, Taft.

Damn, some lopsided trades have been done before so anything's possible. Financially, it doesn't make sense. What does Minny want to do? Build off of somebody else's draft talent and fill in the role with solid veterans or just use expiring contracts to start over from scratch.

Here's my NY trade

Channing Frye + Afernee Hardaway's expiring contract for KG

Here's a Dallas Trade

Kevin Garnett for Dirk Nowitzki, Devin Harris, Pavel Podkolzine but I don't think Minny has a lot of leverage to do this. So maybe KG for Keith Van Horn's expiring deal + Devin Harris?

New Dallas lineup might be

C: Erick Dampier
PF: Kevin Garnett
SF: Dirk Nowitzki
SG: Jerry Stackhouse/Doug Christie
PG: Jason Terry

or

C: Kevin Garnett
PF: Dirk Nowitzki
SF: Josh Howard
SG: Jerry Stackhouse, Doug Christie
PG: Jason Terry

Hmmm maybe Chicago can swing a deal for Garnett once Tim Thomas is cleared to be traded. They could include some guy like Mike Sweetney and even throw in Luol Deng to make it more enticing. Maybe swap Jaric for Gordon and Pike to make the Garnett deal more lucrative than any other deal? I think the only way we could beat that deal is if we throw in all of our rookies and include a shooting guard in the deal and a promising post player. If it takes Ellis, Taft, Biedrins, Pietrus, or Ike + contracts to make it work, damn... The thing is we don't have expiring contracts, but we can offer more talent than most teams at various positions.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post">David Stern has made it clear players can no longer threaten not to report if they are traded.

I don't think KG is the type to respond in that manner either. I'm also certain Minny will try to trade him to a team where he has a chance to win a title. They owe it to him after he agreed to save them $25Million when he got his extension.

Warriors certainly have the pieces to get Minny some young players and draft picks.

Murphy + Fisher + Diogu + 1st Rounder for KG

Leaves the Warriors with ...

PG - B. Diddy
SG - JRich
SF - Dunleavy
PF - KG
C - Foyle

A blockbuster I think the Heat should pulloff for KG is...

Wade + Haslem + Walker for KG

Imagine a frontline of KG & Shaq.</div>

I think Wolves won't even touch Fisher's contract. If we can avoid trading Richardson, that would be excellent. Hopefully, something like Murphy, Pietrus, any of our young player, cap fodder plus couple picks.

If Miami made Wade untradable for Shaq trade before he blow up, I seriously doubt that they will include Wade for KG trade...

 

If Wade was available... Ouch...

I just don't see Minny taking Fisher and his 5 years remaining contract. Without KG, that team is completely rebuilding and they will probably looking for as much of caproom as possible. Thinking about veteran influence may not be their top priority at that point. I mean, if they want Fisher, be my guest...

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Kwan1031:</div><div class="quote_post">If Wade was available... Ouch...

I just don't see Minny taking Fisher and his 5 years remaining contract. Without KG, that team is completely rebuilding and they will probably looking for as much of caproom as possible. Thinking about veteran influence may not be their top priority at that point. I mean, if they want Fisher, be my guest...</div>
One way or another KG's deal needs to be matched and they can't easily do a 5 for 1 deal as there is a roster limit,so Fish likely would be part of such a deal. I have seen a few KG fantasy deals where we give up many of our young,cheap prospects,and Murphy,and we toss in some #1's. We KEEP Fish,Foyle,Dun,and add Garnett,assuring no caproom,as well as not much draft-so our bench is a bunch of minimum wage types. Unless Minny settles for a moderate deal-takes a couple of our bigger salaries,does not ask for ALL our last 3 round 1 guys plus our next couple of #1's.... then,maybe.

 

If the deal happens during the season, roster space may be a problem. But, if it happens during the offseason, it really doesn't matter too much. And, if it does, they can just throw a guy making a minimum. If I am a GM and have to take Fisher, Foyle or Dunleavy's contract for KG's deal, I just won't do the whole thing. After all, they can get better deal out there. Whether we do the deal or not, we are assured that we won't have a caproom to sign any FA and even resigning our own rookies are in serious doubt due to our existing contracts. So, the best way to utilize our situation may be cashing in some of our rookies. Of course, we won't dump both Birdrins and Diogu...

 

Fisher----5 years----$30M. Brutal. And you guys are sweating Dunleavy's $44m. At least Dunleavy's young with some upside still to come. Fisher is topped out already.