<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Tayshaun Prince, overrated defender? Yup, according to Boston Celtics small forward Paul Pierce. Pierce said in a Boston Globe article this week that the only reason he's not on the all-defensive team is the Celtics' lack of a top-five shot-blocker, citing the Pistons small forward as an example. "Even Tayshaun Prince," Pierce said in the Globe. "I don't think he plays great defense. He has two of the best shot-blockers in the game (Ben Wallace and Rasheed Wallace). If a guy blows by you, then the shot-blockers block the shot and you call that great defense." Probably not a great time to make those remarks, considering coach Flip Saunders likes to keep Prince on Pierce whenever the teams meet, as they did Tuesday night. Before the game, Saunders defended Prince's defensive efforts, which won him a spot on the All-NBA Defensive Second Team. "He does what he does," Saunders said. "He's long. He contests shots. I know one thing. Three years ago, one time Doc Rivers, when he was coaching Orlando, he said that Tracy McGrady had said that in the Eastern Conference there were two guys who gave him problems: Tayshaun and Trent Hassell. That's a pretty good recommendation from a pretty good player."</div> Source
There's no denying that having a shot blocker will make anyone a better perimeter defender. Kobe has always been regarded as one of the best defenders in the league but his first season without Shaq he was giving up career nights to no-namers. That's just an example though and applies to almost every defender who plays with a shot blocker. I agree with Pierce here; put Tayshaun in a team without no shotblockers and let's see how well he really does.
And people thought Kobe was an egomanic. Pierce is an average defender at best. You have to play D more than when you want to..to be considered a great defender. Tay may not be on Artest's or Bowen level defensively but he is still pretty damn good.
Pierce has the nerve to call someone an overrated defender? Pierce is one of those dudes who will never give credit to a defender for shutting him down. I remeber last year when the Celtics played the 76ers and Iguodala was making him frustrated as hell, when they asked him about it after the game he said "no comment".
He is correct though. Keith Van Horn would look solid on the defensive end with the two Wallace's down low intimidating defenders.
I'm not sure if it's just shot blocking that makes a player better. Look at Denver, they have Camby and KMart blocking shots, but you never hear anything about the defensive efforts of Carmelo Anthony or Veshon Lenard.
prince can block, what about the reggie miller play. that's one block, but this guy has good perimeter D
Well it's true, Prince's defense is a little overatted, since I've already said this before. I've watched and compared games where he's had Ben and Rasheed and games with one and/or the other, and he's clearly less effective. He goes from a very good-great defender, to just a good one because he really can't stop quicker guys from penetrating. When they're out, he can't just funnell players into a shot blocker, and players are less tentative in going to the basket, so he get's burnt. Now about Pierce being a Top 5 defender with a shot blocker, I don't know about that one. It is true that he's never really had a shot blocker to play with, I think the best on was Tony Battie, and well, he's not really a shot blocker, but he's not shown me he's that good enough defensively for a shot blocker to "make him Top 5".
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post">I'm not sure if it's just shot blocking that makes a player better. Look at Denver, they have Camby and KMart blocking shots, but you never hear anything about the defensive efforts of Carmelo Anthony or Veshon Lenard.</div> I think that may be because 'Melo and Voshon are especially apathetic defenders. Neither of them has the skills of a Tayshaun, and probably not even of a Paul Pierce. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">And people thought Kobe was an egomanic.</div> That's because he is. And if you're intimating that Paul Pierce is on Kobe's level just because he went after one of your precious Pistons, save it. You know as well as I do that Pierce is as humble a superstar as there is, and that's almost entirely the reason he's not more of a superstar. He's played on the downlow in a town that's forgotten about basketball and he still reaches fans all over the country. He's in a hard position to be in for a player of his caliber, and he continues to excel at nearly everything he puts forth on the floor. Give the man some credit, to say he's an egomaniac is ridiculous, and you know it.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Crywalker:</div><div class="quote_post">That's because he is. And if you're intimating that Paul Pierce is on Kobe's level just because he went after one of your precious Pistons, save it. You know as well as I do that Pierce is as humble a superstar as there is, and that's almost entirely the reason he's not more of a superstar. He's played on the downlow in a town that's forgotten about basketball and he still reaches fans all over the country. He's in a hard position to be in for a player of his caliber, and he continues to excel at nearly everything he puts forth on the floor. Give the man some credit, to say he's an egomaniac is ridiculous, and you know it.</div> Oh really? Piece was talking more trash just a week or so ago about Kobe Bryant and questioning and playing the what If game with Shaq and how the Lakers won titles. He bagged on Kobe's game too. Seems Pierce is so frustrated by the team he is on and the lack of success he has had. He is taking It out on guys who have had that winning success. Hardly a sign of a "humble" guy.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AllNet:</div><div class="quote_post">And people thought Kobe was an egomanic. Pierce is an average defender at best. You have to play D more than when you want to..to be considered a great defender.</div>Yeah, and I think you're illustrating one of Pierce's points. If he takes a play off on D, then he's had the likes of Mark Blount, Raef LaFrentz, Tony Battie, Chris Mihm, or Vitaly Potapenko backing him up. Therefore, people like you notice it much more. If Prince takes a play off, he has three of the league's best shotblockers backing him up, in Ben Wallace, Rasheed Wallace, or Antonio McDyess. You can't ignore the difference between the two groups of players. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting B-22:</div><div class="quote_post">Pierce has the nerve to call someone an overrated defender? Pierce is one of those dudes who will never give credit to a defender for shutting him down. I remeber last year when the Celtics played the 76ers and Iguodala was making him frustrated as hell, when they asked him about it after the game he said "no comment".</div>Sometimes silence means more than words can, and when a veteran all-star like Pierce is shut down by a rookie, he might not want to go on and on about it. A lot of guys would have made an excuse and said they had a bad shooting night. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting AllNet:</div><div class="quote_post">Oh really? Piece was talking more trash just a week or so ago about Kobe Bryant and questioning and playing the what If game with Shaq and how the Lakers won titles. He bagged on Kobe's game too. Seems Pierce is so frustrated by the team he is on and the lack of success he has had. He is taking It out on guys who have had that winning success. Hardly a sign of a "humble" guy.</div>Do you think he's just bringing this stuff up out of nowhere? I'm sure the reporters were asking him what flavor of ice cream is his favorite and he answered back with his opinion of Kobe. Seriously, don't blame him for giving honest answers to questions. I know I am sick and tired of the typical cliche-filled answers given by most athletes, and it's opinions like yours that force these guys to stick with them. You get mad at athletes for having an opinion, even if it's something that most people can agree with. It even turns you into a mini-psychologist, attempting to analyze why he said it.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Yeah, and I think you're illustrating one of Pierce's points. If he takes a play off on D, then he's had the likes of Mark Blount, Raef LaFrentz, Tony Battie, Chris Mihm, or Vitaly Potapenko backing him up. Therefore, people like you notice it much more. If Prince takes a play off, he has three of the league's best shotblockers backing him up, in Ben Wallace, Rasheed Wallace, or Antonio McDyess. You can't ignore the difference between the two groups of players. </div> Obviously having shot blockers to back you up helps but really guys are considered good defenders for what they actually do on their man. If they are getting blown by on every play then they are clearly not good defenders no matter who they have behind them. Prince is rated due to his defense which forces guys to take long jumpshots. Prince's uses his length to get the past of players. That was the reason he guarded Kobe so well in the finals in 04 due to his great length where he could force Kobe to not drive but pull up. Pierce has always been a lazy defender, part of that may have to do with how much he has to do on offense but really to be considered great you have to be able to play on both ends. He has never played D consistantly and likely never will. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Do you think he's just bringing this stuff up out of nowhere? I'm sure the reporters were asking him what flavor of ice cream is his favorite and he answered back with his opinion of Kobe </div> I'm sure the reporters had alot to do with what he said but really If Pierce is this great humble guy why would he go out of his way to make It out that Prince is not a very good defender or that Kobe didn't play a huge part in the Lakers 3-peat? Pierce just sounds like a very frustrated and bitter player right now. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Seriously, don't blame him for giving honest answers to questions. I know I am sick and tired of the typical cliche-filled answers given by most athletes, and it's opinions like yours that force these guys to stick with them. You get mad at athletes for having an opinion, even if it's something that most people can agree with. It even turns you into a mini-psychologist, attempting to analyze why he said it.</div> Touchy and no I'm not mad at all. I understand his opinion and I can see why he would say the stuff he did but he is not completely right in what he has said. He is dis-respecting other players just because he has never won anything or got close. Part of that is down to back luck being on a franchise who has had very poor management and not done enough to get close to being a very good team. Obviously Danny Ainge has started to get things back on track in Boston by giving in some good talent and good young guys through the draft but will Pierce still be as good when these guys reach their prime? no would be the likely answer.
Did Prince actually shut Kobe down in the 04 finals? I thought him and Shaq averaged 30 a piece, and the Pistons just shut down the rest of the team.. Barkeley once said that Prince was an overrated defender and that he needs to stop being referred to as a stopper. I agree, he defends with length, as opposed to strength like Ron Artest and Bruce Bowen. Personally, I'd rather have a strong stopper because guys like LeBron can easily back down Tayshaun in the post..
Kobe shot just 38% in the finals. So yes in a way he did shut him down. and using Lebron is a bad example considering Bron has struggled with Prince in the past. Remember him having a few bad shooting night's against him one on one.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AllNet:</div><div class="quote_post">Obviously having shot blockers to back you up helps but really guys are considered good defenders for what they actually do on their man. If they are getting blown by on every play then they are clearly not good defenders no matter who they have behind them. Prince is rated due to his defense which forces guys to take long jumpshots. Prince's uses his length to get the past of players. That was the reason he guarded Kobe so well in the finals in 04 due to his great length where he could force Kobe to not drive but pull up.</div>But the whole concept of man-to-man defense changes when you have dominant shot blockers behind you. Players are taught to give their man the baseline because the shot blocker will be there to meet them at the corner of the backboard 90% of the time. That takes away half the defensive responsibility, and allows them to get closer to their man. That's not to say that Prince is a bad defender, but Pierce didn't even say that. Paul just feels like Prince didn't deserve to make the all-defensive team, which is hardly insulting. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Pierce has always been a lazy defender, part of that may have to do with how much he has to do on offense but really to be considered great you have to be able to play on both ends. He has never played D consistantly and likely never will.</div>I don't know how often you watch Celtics games, but I can tell it isn't a frequent occurance. Pierce is not a lazy defender. The only time he gets into trouble on the defensive end is when he tries to cheat under the boards so he will be in good position for the rebound. That's a product of the Celtics having no great rebounders for the past 10 years or so, not laziness. The way you can judge his man-to-man defense is at the beggining of games, when he doesn't have to worry about sneaking in for rebounds. He's actully really consistent, in that his opponent rarely gets where they want to get. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I'm sure the reporters had alot to do with what he said but really If Pierce is this great humble guy why would he go out of his way to make It out that Prince is not a very good defender or that Kobe didn't play a huge part in the Lakers 3-peat? Pierce just sounds like a very frustrated and bitter player right now.</div>What I don't understand is why us, the fans, are allowed to criticize, but players can't. I do agree with him that he would have had a similar impact if paired with Shaq on the Lakers. The difference between the two is that Pierce wouldn't have alienated the team and force the dynasty to break up. I don't think Paul was taking away from Kobe's skills on the court, just his attitude and ego throughout the whole situation. Pierce may be outspoken, but he's always been a team player and well liked by his team. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Touchy and no I'm not mad at all. I understand his opinion and I can see why he would say the stuff he did but he is not completely right in what he has said. He is dis-respecting other players just because he has never won anything or got close. Part of that is down to back luck being on a franchise who has had very poor management and not done enough to get close to being a very good team. Obviously Danny Ainge has started to get things back on track in Boston by giving in some good talent and good young guys through the draft but will Pierce still be as good when these guys reach their prime? no would be the likely answer.</div>There you go again trying to pin his words on frustration. He may be frustrated, but he's never been afraid to speak his mind in the past.
Switch-a-roo Imo it is the exact opposite. Prince gets hardly any press and goes out every night to play basketball. Pierce really made himself look foolish here. I mean Tayshaun Prince isn't hyped enough to be overrated!
Overrated doesn't necessarily imply that Prince is a bad defender. It also doesn't have to be considered an insult. With the way the media and fans jump on bandwagons, there are tonnes of things in the NBA that are overrated. Prince's defense is very good, but there's is no denying that with Wallace and Wallace covering his back most people won't notice when his man gets past him. Also as Thrilla pointed out, he can gamble a lot more with his positioning if his opponent knows that waiting at the baseline is Big Ben or 'Sheed.
I was a Tay fan well before he suddenly became a bandwagon, along with Wade. I'm not going to change my opinion on a play just because some fool says he is overrated. I alway knew Wade would be great, before the draft. Same with Tay, and I'm not going to change my mind about them because they are suddenly a bandwaggon. Tay is an excellent defender, it doesn't matter if he has a shot blocker or not. It's not that he gets a lot of blocks and steals, it's that he is always in their face, contesting and attacking the offensive player. It's impossible to shut a good player down, he is going to score whether you like it or not, but that does not mean you can't decrease his effectiveness. He is always going to be in your face, with his long arms. So he contests every shot, and it definately helps with his long arms to stop penetration, forcing them into jumpers. But the thing is, he is always contesting those jumpers.
Prince is a cluch defender. If the pistons need a stop during a close game or in a cluth situation he's there to make that play. The guy doesnt play hard d 48 min. but when the game is on the line he is an offencive guards worse nightmare.
