I think most of us could agree that he has obviously take a step back from the back to back Finals days, but did he take a small step back or a big step back? The way I see it, I think he has taken a big step back. I was watching tape of the 02-03 season and Kidd overall impact was much bigger than what initially remembered. He was involved in almost every play, much more active, relentless and since the injury things seem to have gone not downhill but "downmountain" for him. When I'm on the comp checking on Sixers game updates and by back is facing the television while the Nets game is on all hear is "What an emphatic slam by Carter" or ?Jefferson with his 10th rebound? or even ?Nenad Krstic with a pretty move? it?s like almost every 6 minutes or so I finally hear Jason Kidd name and again opposed to a couple seasons ago his name would be yelled on every play from either the defensive end or the offensive end. About 8/10 of the "expert" analysis says than the Nets are a LOCK to win the division and granted that it's still early and all, they are only 5-4 and judging from their type of play it doesn't seem that they are that much better than teams in which I think are at their level if not better like the Bucks, Sixers, Cavs and Wizards. Vince Carter and RJ are the 1st and 2nd options but really it all comes down to Kidd and quite frankly I just don't see he has that hunger and determination in his eyes/body language anymore. And I'm not making my argument on based on this young season alone, these thoughts came to my mind since last season (particularly after the injury). What are your thoughts on this? Do you guys also see this or is it just me?
Well I agree in a way. Kidd doesn't try to penetrate so help defense comes, and he dishes the ball to the open player. He seems to basically stay near the 3 point and dish the ball from there. This makes me a little upset because people think he is starting to die out and thats not something I want to see. His assists this year only 6.6. During the Kidd, RJ, and Martin era he could get that in one quarter. Im hoping he will start playing like he used too. I know he is getting old but if he says his injury is all better now, why doesn't he drive to the basket like he used to.
So you made them on last season where he and Carter took this team on their backs and brought them to the playoffs? Or how about when he pretty much averaged a triple double in the last couple months? No doubt he's not as good as he was, but give him time to adjust to a new team with two other phenomenal playmakers. Webber and Iverson needed half a season to adjust to eachother, so give VC, RJ and Kidd a little bit more time before you start to say we're not on the same level as Philly or Cleveland.
the jason kidd you guys had a few years back is not the same Jason Kidd today he's getting older and his ankles are not getting any better i see him retiring in a few years maybe even two or three as far as the standings of the nets go--you guys are going to win the atlantic for sure playoffs--yes championships--i'm a bit iffy on this..i think you guys would have been deadly if you would have gotten SAR
As sad as it is, I think his prime is way done. He's still a triple-double beast, but stats don't help your team win. I'm disappointed to see his assist numbers so low after proving himself to be the best pg in the league a few years back. You would think that number would skyrocket with RJ and VC, but not really.. I think Kidd should look more to push when he gets the chance to help out again.. Hopefully Kidd blows up soon and proves us all wrong?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting typemilitant:</div><div class="quote_post">As sad as it is, I think his prime is way done. He's still a triple-double beast, but stats don't help your team win. I'm disappointed to see his assist numbers so low after proving himself to be the best pg in the league a few years back. You would think that number would skyrocket with RJ and VC, but not really.. I think Kidd should look more to push when he gets the chance to help out again.. Hopefully Kidd blows up soon and proves us all wrong?</div> I don't understand this, it's barely 10 games into the season and you're already doubting this man's skills. Yes his APG are down, but relax, some players don't always get into huge starts like TJ Ford or Gilbert Arenas. If it's mid-December and he's still at 6APG then we can start to question him, but him, Vince and RJ have played so few games together that I'm not surprised his stats are suffering as of now. Hasn't Vince averaged like 16 over the past 5 games or so?
Avery, you kind of threw two different topics into one...I understand they go hand and hand..but I seperate them. Yes, I do agree I think Kidd's better days are behind him..but I for seen this about 2 years ago. You could tell the way Kidd faded the last two or three playoff years...that playing 100 games like he did from 01-03 takes its toll. The problem now is we held onto Kidd to long, we would never get equal value for him, now. Kidd is at the point where teams would try to job the Nets in a deal because they know exactly what we are discussing right now...they dont care that Kidd is still at worst a top 3 pg. Kidd's age + his contract almost in certainty means the Nets take back a couple of bad contracts back in any deal..So I rather just level with the fact that Kidd's production wont equal to that of two or three years ago. But his leadership can still clearly be effective. And hope that Carter, Jefferson and a developing Krstic takes away the need for great production from Kidd every night. Anyway on too the talks of the Bucks, Cavs, Sixers etc being as good or better....Cleveland very strong home team..and I like what they have with their fowards everybody talks about James and Hughes out on the perimeter but I think what they have at the 4 spot is what really makes them stand out. You get alot of nice dimensions with that 1-2 punch of Marshall and Gooden. Honestly their arent alot of teams that can go two strong at the key power forward spot...But I still question whether they can win against quality teams on the road. And how long and how far can that point guard combination of Eric Snow and Damon Jones take them. I got love for DJ and respect for Snow...but I think no matter who the team is you need a little playmaking from your point guard spot. You need a guy who can at least create a little...Snow isnt a creator anymore,never really was and Damon Jones is a spot up player, who if his jumper isnt falling becomes a liablty because he cant defend or create. But I will admit that their strenghts out wieght their weakness right now...but until they beat a couple of quality road opponents..I still think we are better...because you know Kidd,Carter and Jefferson are experinced enough to produce on the road. But I think they do have the potentail to be better then us...mainly because of how strong they are on the frontcourt. The Bucks...ahh no. Redd on a really quality team is a 2nd option not first nor franchise player. And win ever you have a guy who is really a 2nd option being a 1st option I think there is always a imagary wall of games you can win and how good you can be honestly. Also TJ Ford is good but I think teams for got that and that has open up different things for him then usual but as the year goes on I think teams will figure him out better and his play will go down a bit. And they rely alot on goes like Mo Williams and Bobby Simmons alot for big games inorder to win....good players but unproven. Simmons has only been quality for what about a season and Mo Williams had a decent stretch one year with the Jazz. But these guys roles might be to key inorder for the Bucks success, Iam not saying its fools goal. I just think they need to prove themselves. I see them ending somewhere between 40-45 wins at best...If the Nets play to their capablites they are a better team then that. Sixers are interesting probly will be the stiftest competion to the Nets getting the Atlantic divison title as the season gets deep into the 2nd half...But I dont know I still think playing alongside Allen Iverson does not let young players like dre,kover and even Salmons to devlope at a strong pace. And that holds the 76ers back from being as strong as they can be overall. I think that when you have you parts like that a key ingrediants for your team you have to give the room to grow and except the makes and continue to have trust. Iverson at times looses that trust and in turn that is why you see him try to shoulder all of the load. I dont think that works in the long run cause you have some quality parts, who can help out. And are still young and effective. That style works to win games when you have guys like Tyrone Hill, Eric Snow, Aaron McKie and some of his past teammattes who made careers on not really looking to be apart of the offensive system in a major way and would just do all the dirty work...but this team is much different...the more those young parts are in the offensive system along with Webber the better and more effective this team will be....so the Sixers wont get stronger until Allen Iverson accepts that imo. And the Wizards, I dont know Jamison can score in a vertity of ways and could be one of the hardest front court guys in the league to guard. But he has a couple of problems he cant really create his own shot that wellas a go to guy and the guard that he relies to get him the basketball is named Gilbert Arenas. If Eddie Jordan allowed Arenas to pass the basketball off the backboard all night to himself, he'd much rather do that then pass to anybody else in a Blue Jersey. So the ball movement on the Wizards looks terrible alot of the times with all that one on one play out on the perimeter. So I just dont see how a team like Washington can be considered a stronger team in the long run then us...honestly Eddie Jordan probably will never admitt it because the Wiz won 45 games last year. And will probably win the same again this season, but I know he cant feel that he is getting true use of the motion offense with Arenas at the pg. And I think Jamsion would really benefit from a all scale motion offnse, he seems to have the game for it. But the Wiz right now are content with being average which is what a 42-45 win team is....I think the Nets are above that in the long run. As for the Nets we definately arent as stong as expected right now...but I look at in two ways...thing we cant fix and things we can and will get better and fix. First off things we cant fix, we cant fix our frontcourt problems..Only way to do that is thru trade, which will be hard to accomplish without giving up another key area. so we just have to hope that once Colins returns guys just do their rolls that are expected of them...Collins must be our best frontcourt on-ball defend, Krstic must continue to be our low post threat, Marc Jackson must bring a pshyical pressence to the frontcourt....and Robinson must give us that 2nd defensive guy behind Collins to throw on stud bigs around the league. If guys just do their rolls that are exoected then we can be all right with what we have now...they might not do much exceptional to win games most not.but they will be solid enough not to cost us alot of games. Also I think our bench will get better and has already showed signs of doing just that...I think right now injuries have certain guys out of their rolls and elements. Right now, Collins being out moves Robinson into a starters role, which really hurts the bench especially defensively, because now Padgett has to play big minutes at the 4 spot in the 2nd unit. Padgett can make a jumper every once and a while, but cant guard a table standing still. And its costly, just look at the way Troy Murphy tore him up when Robinson went to the bench in the 2nd half of the game vs Golden State earlier tonight...so when the 2nd units adjusted to their nature roles of what they will play all year...I think it will improve our team greatly..the problem is we will have to be healthy for guys to get adjusted to their true roles....Collins has to get back and be stable in the lineup, not play one game and the miss the next 1 or 2, it confuses the rotation. Health is also a think that you cant really fix..but will be a major concern all year. But it seems that Collins who in years past was the rock in the lineup, you could always expect him..now seems to be in & out, Kidd is always at risk. And well Carter might be on the shelf as we speak. So this team definately is only as good as their healthy allows them to be...but if heatlhy they are a 48-49 win team in my opion over a course of a 82. That is more then the Wiz, 76ers and Bucks...Cavs, I dont know if they are a strong, not great but solid road team, then they are probably 50 wins, slightly.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Henacy:</div><div class="quote_post">And the Wizards, I dont know Jamison can score in a vertity of ways and could be one of the hardest front court guys in the league to guard. But he has a couple of problems he cant really create his own shot that wellas a go to guy and the guard that he relies to get him the basketball is named Gilbert Arenas. If Eddie Jordan allowed Arenas to pass the basketball off the backboard all night to himself, he'd much rather do that then pass to anybody else in a Blue Jersey. So the ball movement on the Wizards looks terrible alot of the times with all that one on one play out on the perimeter. So I just dont see how a team like Washington can be considered a stronger team in the long run then us...honestly Eddie Jordan probably will never admitt it because the Wiz won 45 games last year. And will probably win the same again this season, but I know he cant feel that he is getting true use of the motion offense with Arenas at the pg. And I think Jamsion would really benefit from a all scale motion offnse, he seems to have the game for it. But the Wiz right now are content with being average which is what a 42-45 win team is....I think the Nets are above that in the long run.</div> I disagree here. Gilbert can change his mindset on his PG duties, and is dedicated to doing whatever the Wiz need to win. Or if all else fails, slide him to the 2 and put Antonio Daniels at the helm.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Henacy:</div><div class="quote_post">Sixers are interesting probly will be the stiftest competion to the Nets getting the Atlantic divison title as the season gets deep into the 2nd half...But I dont know I still think playing alongside Allen Iverson does not let young players like dre,kover and even Salmons to devlope at a strong pace. And that holds the 76ers back from being as strong as they can be overall. I think that when you have you parts like that a key ingrediants for your team you have to give the room to grow and except the makes and continue to have trust. Iverson at times looses that trust and in turn that is why you see him try to shoulder all of the load. I dont think that works in the long run cause you have some quality parts, who can help out. And are still young and effective. That style works to win games when you have guys like Tyrone Hill, Eric Snow, Aaron McKie and some of his past teammattes who made careers on not really looking to be apart of the offensive system in a major way and would just do all the dirty work...but this team is much different...the more those young parts are in the offensive system along with Webber the better and more effective this team will be....so the Sixers wont get stronger until Allen Iverson accepts that imo.</div> I strongly disagree with you there. Iverson is aware of what he has and he tries to utilize what he has around him to the best of his abilities. While assists aren't everything you can't hide from the fact that he is getting 8 APG. But going back to the point about him utilizing the guys around him, he really does. Marc Jackson was a key acquisition for the Nets this season and that's because of Iverson. When Jackson arrived to Philly not one single soul really knew about it, it was a very low key move because Jackson wasn't considered anything special. But once he played along side Iverson, Jackson is all of a sudden a "replacement" for a guy like Rahim or in other words is a pretty notable acquisition. Now as far as what he has around him... …Kyle Korver… Despite the fact that he has improved on other aspects of his game is still really a 3pt shooter. But Iverson fed him like no other, Iverson believed/believes in this guy thus that is why he the confidence to give Korver the ball and let Korver tie with Q Rich for the most 3Pt FG made last season and so far things doesn’t seem any different. Andre Iguodala on the other hand doesn't have much of an offensive game but A.I did all he could with him last season which was all really alley oops. But now since Iguodala has improved his offensive game, at times Iverson would play with Iguodala as if he is the second option not Webber. Iguodala is averaging 13.2 Points which is an increase from 9 PPG he averaged last season. This time around not only is he throwing him alleys-oops all day, he is giving Iguodala the ball and letting him create for himself and others. Now as for Steven Hunter, he is also having a career season. That can be due to the increase in minutes and the fact that he is starting but his game didn't really change all that much since last season with Phoenix. But so far he is averaging 8.5 PPG, but what's most impressing about that is that he is shooting 57%. And like I said his game didn't change all that much from last season but the fact that Iverson sets him up on almost every bucket he gets has give him confidence and has made a better player. I can guarantee if this was his contract year his stock would be so high that you wouldn’t believe it. Trust me; he would be one of the most coveted big men in the 06 Offseason. If you take you time and watch just one Sixers game you will see how Iverson sets him up and creates for him. And when Iverson sits, Hunter at times demands the ball which is all on confidence due going back to the fact that he feels as if he is a better player which ultimately falls on Iverson shoulders. And last but not least, you have Salmons. Unlike the others guy he doesn't rely on anybody to set him up so he can get his points. But your wondering how does he average 11 PPG well it’s because Iverson is aware of the talent has and lets him take over. From the Sixers games that I've seen(roughly 5-6) Iverson literally just hands him the ball and clears out and let Salmons take his man on ISO plays because that’s how Salmons is more effective. Again, Iverson is aware of what Salmons can do and unlike previous years he won't look to dribble the ball and force something he knows what he has and lets him take over. Iverson plays virtually the whole game and at the same time Salmons averaging 3 APG so other that scoring he is also dishing which means that A.I is letting someone control the ball other than Chris Webber, he has the confidence in the guys around him and trust me from what I seen thus far he knows what he around him. Overall, Iverson is the not the same. The ball movement for the team is MUCH, MUCH better and he is not hogging the ball on every position. There is a reason why this Sixers team is averaging 104 PPG right behind the Phonies Suns. The defense on the other hand is atrocious buts that’s anther story, but as far as the offensive goes there are top notch and that's mainly due to the reason that Iverson is sharing the ball and letting the guys around him operate. The team has 5 guys averaging in double figures and that’s something that hasn’t been done with Sixers for a couple years now.
Defense will improve when they get Dalembert back. They also need a big body (like Marc Jackson) to deal with the Shaqs and JOs.
I watched JKidd last night at the arena and he was strangely passive. McInnis ran the point more than Kidd. Could not figure out why. Sad if he's on the way out because he was the most exciting player for a while who would push the ball to make everyone better even though Kidd had no outside shot and shot FTs badly.
