Details: When: Thursday, November 26th Where: KeyArena Time (Seattle): 12:30 PM TV: FSN, League Pass Projected Starters: <font color=""Green""> Seattle (5-7)</font> Luke Ridnour Ray Allen Rashard Lewis Reggie Evans Nick Collison <font color=""DeepSkyBlue""> New Orleans (5-6)</font> Chris Paul J.R. Smith Bostjan Nachbar David West P.J. Brown Injury Troubles: <font color=""Green"">Seattle</font> Rick Brunson - Plantar fasciitis (probable) Danny Fortson - Toe inflammation (out) <font color=""DeepSkyBlue"">New Orleans</font> Chris Andersen - Sore knee and back (probable) Inactive List: <font color=""Green"">Seattle</font> Robert Swift Rick Brunson <font color=""DeepSkyBlue""> New Orleans</font> Maciej Lampe Sean Banks <div align="center">Brief Notes:</div> * The Sonics have lost two in a row against less competitive teams and find themselves back in the position of having to prove they can compete at a higher level. Bob Weiss has made yet another lineup change, putting Reggie Evans back into the starting power forward slot and moving Nick Collison to center. The experiment comes against the undersized frontline of the Hornets, so Collison won't be forced to test his skills against a natural center, at least for now. * Ray Allen will be matched up against a notoriously bad defender, and a 20-year-old one, at that. If there was ever a time for him to get back into an offensive rhythm, this would be it. Rashard Lewis is also going to have the advantage over his defender on offense, but with his hot shooting lately, it's probably more important to get him the ball than to worry about whether he'll produce or not. * Desmond Mason, an old Seattle favorite returns, sure to get a nice reaction from the crowd when he enters the game and dunks on whoever is playing center at the time for the Sonics. * Chris Paul, one of my least favorite players, is probably going to run all over Luke Ridnour, my favorite player. Hold me. Random Sonic Quote: "He had made tough shots. I think if you look at the stats, the whole team played well. Chris Mihm, Smush Parker, and Lamar Odom all had good games. All their starters scored in double figures. That?s what we talked about going into the game - not to let this team get off. Kobe is going to take his shots. When he was out of the game, I think that was the best thing for them, the team got confident and made plays. Once Kobe got back in, they played well and confident as a team." Ray Allen, definitely not in denial about his defense on Kobe Bryant All predictions, analysis and discussion relating directly to the game, both before, during and after, to be posted in this thread.
Good for Reg. At least we'll have someone with some fire and emotion out there, even if he bricks his free throws and makes ill-advised forays to the hoop. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Casual:</div><div class="quote_post">Ray Allen, definitely not in denial about his defense on Kobe Bryant</div>
I have a ticket for this game......but do I really want to get up and go down to the Key just to watch the Sonics beat on the NO/OKC Honrnets? Not really. I remember Speedy Claxton absolutely torched us at the Warriors game (he had 27 I believe). I expect him to do the same thing tonight. I would encourage anyone who hasn't seen Speedy play in person to do so someday, he lives up to his name.
Had a nice run going down the stretch with all that hustle defense. We just played bad... and fouled WAY too much.
that was definitely the difference...freethrows ...34 to 12....man.... In the first half we barely took it inside. It was all just jump shots. Its the same story each game now....
When the Hornets execute every play they want against you, then you have poor preparation and no pride. This is the team I thought we would have last year, when I gave up my season tickets to go to game packs. This year I have the season tickets again, but have to sit through the year that I hoped to avoid. sigh...so they make the lottery and draft another undersized or inexperienced big or another guard with no defensive skills and too little athleticism. It is still early enough to turn it around...Chicago did last year, and no one has really pulled ahead in the NW Division yet...but...I don't see and pride or passion in this team yet.
I ended up getting row 1 tickets to this game and uhh yeah wish i did some christmas shopping instead, or something. wow? I didn't think it was possible, but the sonics are a LOT worse in person.
And I know I'm going against some JBB bandwagon here but... There is a reason Mateen Cleaves never got any playing time in the league, and despite a good "run," by that I mean for a while being the least disappointing PG on our roster.. He's showing that he's definite benchwarmer status This guy just looks awkward on the court. In fairness he doesnt do anything "wrong" per se; he doesnt necessarily have a negative impact on the game (at least not an obvious one..) but he's small, he's not athletic enough to make up for it, he is a terrible shooter, he has few moves to speak of to let him beat his defender, and all in all he doesnt really bring anything special to the table. The politically correct thing to say is that he's solid, but imo "unremarkable" is a better description. If all we needed was someone with a good A:TO ratio running the show, we would've paid Kevin Ollie.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting tradebark:</div><div class="quote_post">And I know I'm going against some JBB bandwagon here but... There is a reason Mateen Cleaves never got any playing time in the league, and despite a good "run," by that I mean for a while being the least disappointing PG on our roster.. He's showing that he's definite benchwarmer status This guy just looks awkward on the court. In fairness he doesnt do anything "wrong" per se; he doesnt necessarily have a negative impact on the game (at least not an obvious one..) but he's small, he's not athletic enough to make up for it, he is a terrible shooter, he has few moves to speak of to let him beat his defender, and all in all he doesnt really bring anything special to the table. The politically correct thing to say is that he's solid, but imo "unremarkable" is a better description. If all we needed was someone with a good A:TO ratio running the show, we would've paid Kevin Ollie.</div> Hes been better then Ridnour. In pretty much every facet of the game too.
Sadly, the fact that last year was a magical season not to be repeated is becoming more apparent game by game. So taking a step back and seeing last year for what it was, an aberration, we've been on a 6 year run of mediocrity - a tenuous financial situation, a management team with no long term plan, drafting 13th year after year, between 35-42 wins. Perhaps this year will finally see us implode and get a high lottery pick, force us to make a blockbuster trade, Howard sells the team, Wally gets fired...
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Roland Hood:</div><div class="quote_post">Sadly, the fact that last year was a magical season not to be repeated is becoming more apparent game by game. So taking a step back and seeing last year for what it was, an aberration, we've been on a 6 year run of mediocrity - a tenuous financial situation, a management team with no long term plan, drafting 13th year after year, between 35-42 wins. Perhaps this year will finally see us implode and get a high lottery pick, force us to make a blockbuster trade, Howard sells the team, Wally gets fired...</div> If the price of howard selling the team and wally getting fired is a horrible season...I think thats a good deal. If a bad season leads to the events mentioned above...and us actually drafting a good, Solid big man who we can really build on....it might be a good thing for the sonics franchise... but i highly doubt that is gonna happen. we may have a horrible season, yet howard is still gonna use money from the sonics (which he says they are losing money) to build more starbucks'. Wally is a part owner and he isnt gonna fire himself...as long as wally and howie are up top....this team is going nowhere but down....
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Coolguy777:</div><div class="quote_post">Hes been better then Ridnour. In pretty much every facet of the game too.</div> Totally disagreed. Ridnour is by no means playing at the starter level, but he has definite flashes of brilliance which we never see from Cleaves. Luke can penetrate, knock down the occasional (sigh) open jump shot, and is much quicker. All Cleaves does is bring the ball up the floor and let Allen or Flip make the decisions once he gets across the half court line.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting tradebark:</div><div class="quote_post">Luke can penetrate, knock down the occasional (sigh) open jump shot, and is much quicker.</div> Can, but he doesn't. Mateen has been hitting more open jumpers and pentrating more effectively than Luke. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting tradebark:</div><div class="quote_post">All Cleaves does is bring the ball up the floor and let Allen or Flip make the decisions once he gets across the half court line.</div> That's...exactly what Luke does. At least Mateen plays better defense.
I've been keeping up with the games as much as anyone and I just don't see it. Luke finds people, it's just that the people arent knocking shots down. Cleaves literally just hobbles his way up the court, dishes off to Flip or Ray, and turns invisible. As for defense, though Luke isnt going to be stopping any AI's anytime soon.. Cleaves?? Are you kidding me..?? Some bandwagons I can understand, this one though.. meh. IMO the Sonics have a decent shot at the playoffs assuming they EVER get the minutes allocated and settled.. With Allen on the floor, most possessions go fairly well with us (usually) getting a good shot off. Lewis though, still tends to fade, though he is much better than he was 2+ years ago. When he's in he needs to post up rather than jack up Radmanovic 3's. Flip just seems like he doesnt belong.. I'm not a fan of the iso plays with him on the block. He has this annoying habit of making a lazy pass if he cant make a move in the post.. It seems like such a shame too, since his scoring is desperately needed.. Wilkins needs to turn more into like Trenton Hassell of old and not take shots like he deserves them. He's a good finisher but running plays for him just doesnt make sense to me. Fiddling with the rotation so much is basically what keeps us from beating teams like NOK that should be easy wins.. Watching the game it felt like Weiss kept swapping players after 2-3 plays; it destroys any fluidity they may have and keeps them from settling into a rhythm
Everyone seems so focused on the guards...here is a quote of Reggie Evans from Sunday's Seattle Times that REALLY points out the problem... "With defense, people can be selfish. You don't have to play team defense if you don't want to. You feel like you can stop this man, take it upon yourself and stop that man. It's just pride." The Sonics perimeter defense was only marginally better individually last year. It was the successful team defensive strategy that relied on the Big's effectively shutting down the lane on penetration that anchored the defense last year. Without team difference this looks like the same team the Sonics deployed two years ago. Opposing guards are eating them alive. FOLLOW-UP Just read a second Evans quote, this time from the Tacoma Tribune... “Everybody has to be ready (to play),” said forward Reggie Evans, one of the Sonics who goes hard every game. “It’s real frustrating. We have to play team defense. If a person gets beat, we have to be there for them, but you have to take pride in not getting beat all the time. You can get a pass every now and then, but all the time? Nah. Once you start letting people get past you, your big men start getting into foul trouble. People have to have self-pride. That’s just pride, dedication and determination.” Combined with some comments made by Mikki Moore, it sounds like the bigs are pointing their fingers directly at the guards. I say, too much finger pointing. Reggie has missed some blatant defensive rotations including one against the Jazz that cost the Sonics the game. Get together and solve the problem gentlemen.
Add Nick: <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">"It feels like they're runnin' right at us. I don't know exactly why that is. I know as a big guy, it seems like I've got guys flying at me all the time. We're not very good defensively right now." </div> But really, you've got Luke Ridnour, Ray Allen and Rashard Lewis as your perimeter defense guys. So no surprise, right?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Roland Hood:</div><div class="quote_post">Add Nick:But really, you've got Luke Ridnour, Ray Allen and Rashard Lewis as your perimeter defense guys. So no surprise, right?</div> Exactly, and my point is that AD is the only perimeter change, so what is the REAL issue? Is Weiss telling the guards to gamble more? Nate emphasized riding the ball full court and sticking tight to you man as much as possible. Are the perimeter defenders just not executing it this year?
The difference is that this year our perimeter players knew that they had the luxury of 30 fouls behind them (BGJ, RE, Fortson, Nick, and Vitaly if necessary). This year our frontcourt rotation is so out of wack that when perimeter players are driving our bigs our getting out of the way so that they don't pick up fouls. Bottom line is that last year we did a great job of pressuring the ball in the backcourt so that the shot clock was shortened in the half court. This year's team isn't doing anything well defensively and as a result we are 5-8. If we are going to turn this ship around guys have to understand that it takes stops to win in this league.
Ray, Luke, Lewis and Wilkens are all averaging more Steals per game than they did last season...perhaps they HAVE been told to gamble instead of relying on solid positional defense.
