raps fans "lay off babcock" SI article link/rest of the article <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Patience is a virtue, Toronto. One you don't seem to have. I'm not going to rip Canadian sports fans, I promise. I'm not going to trash them for failing to support the Grizzlies or make hay about the demise of the Expos. I've got the Canada-bashing PTI guys for that. But I will say this: leave Rob Babcock alone. It's become en vogue in Toronto to take shots at the maligned Raptors GM. The guy is as popular there as Jean Charest is in Quebec. A couple of weeks ago a fan brought a sign to a Raptors game that read, "Fire Babcock" on one side and "Raptor Killer" on the other. Recently it was reported that Babcock has taken to wearing earplugs at Toronto games to block out hecklers. </div> thats a good read.
I agree that a lot of the stuff going on in Toronto isn't his fault but his draft pics have been questionable at best, though the alston trade worked in your favor.
Our picks are just fine. We have CV who is leading the rookies, Graham who hasn't really found his groove yet, Hoff who still can turn out to be a decent player, not to mention Roko who will be coming over in a few years. I think he did an above average job with this draft, however his rookie season as a GM was pretty bad.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting rafy:</div><div class="quote_post">Our picks are just fine. We have CV who is leading the rookies, Graham who hasn't really found his groove yet, Hoff who still can turn out to be a decent player, not to mention Roko who will be coming over in a few years. I think he did an above average job with this draft, however his rookie season as a GM was pretty bad.</div> and not to forget calderon
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting dj_premium_plus:</div><div class="quote_post">and not to forget calderon </div> I was only talking about picks, not signings.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MAKEOUTCITY:</div><div class="quote_post">I don't give a crap, it still and will never make up for the Carter trade.</div> No point in even wasting my time.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting dj_premium_plus:</div><div class="quote_post">and not to forget calderon </div> ...and Pape Sow. In NBDL he is averaging 30.5 PPG 12.5 Reb a game and 3 steals a game. If you are measuring Babcock on his ability to draft players, don't look at the first rounders, look at the second round pick. Those will tell the tail if the GM knows what he is doing, or just reading NBA Draft.Net and picking the most popular. Pape Sow Roko Ukic Uros Slokar I think those kids can play.
wow, pape sow is a monster in the nbdl, we should bring him up and see how he does in the league, if he struggles we will jsut send him down for more playuing time again the only questionable pick i have is hoffa, but he's looking pretty good right now, im sorry, but i think babs is actualyl doing ok, and that carter trade was necessary
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Gotrunks226:</div><div class="quote_post">Where are you getting those stats ^?</div> http://www.nba.com/dleague/playerfile/pape...x.html?nav=page
The key here is patience. The biggest upside is how we are in a rebuilding process, and we have so much salary left, and all our young, raw guys look like they have a very bright future. However in the immediate part of things, Hoffa and the terrible Carter trade still remains in the average fans minds. But, I think Babcock is almost about breaking even with his goods and bads, I think its any future moves he makes that should determine our opinions about him. If you look at it, we have a very bright future. Two or three seasons(hopefully Bosh stays) and we're set.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MAKEOUTCITY:</div><div class="quote_post">I don't give a crap, it still and will never make up for the Carter trade.</div> I dont want to start a big vince argument here (although i do enjoy a good VC bashing), but we were NOT going to get anything for him. Do you honestly think that Babcock had any leverage whatsoever over other teams? Vince's stats were decent, but when a player demands a trade and speaks out agianst management, he has little to no trade value. What was babcock supposed to do? Tell everyone that he was going to hold on to a cancerous player who's bringing down the team until he gets a better deal? Of course not. Every GM in the league new how much pressure Babcock was under and how little he was going to have to take for Vince. I'm not trying to say that we got equal value for vince (even though Graham will be a solid player for years to come), we obviously didnt. It's just that the trade needed to happen and Babcock had the cojones to do it. I'm tired of people riding Babcock for the Hoffa pick too. THE MAN MADE ONE BAD PICK! Relax. Not every player drafted is going to be an all-star. Don't get me wrong, when i see him play i want to cry sometimes, but one bad pick out of five aint bad. Every other pick has been arguably great. The man signed calderon, robbed Houston and stuck to his guns by picking Charlie V. And lets not forget that this is his second year as a GM. Babcock might not be an exceptional Gm, but he is by no means as bad as people make him out to be.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting bryce40ww:</div><div class="quote_post">I dont want to start a big vince argument here (although i do enjoy a good VC bashing), but we were NOT going to get anything for him. Do you honestly think that Babcock had any leverage whatsoever over other teams? </div> We had good offers over the summer but we waited too long and ended up getting far less. Babcock came out and said stuff like "this is his value at this time". Ya it's true we didn't have much leverage at the time he was traded but it never should have come to that. I don't think it was too far of a stretch to imagine Vince Carter coming out and playing lousy basketball because he was disinterested. Given it was far worse than anyone thought but i would hope that the GM would anticipate things like that.
I see where you're coming from, but I still dont completely agree. I think it's fair to say that in the summer most raps fans still strongly supported Vince, I know I did. There were grumblings about him not being happy, but it didn't seem like things were going to blow up like they did. I think that if Babcock had made the trade then, even if it was the right time, that fans would have been all over him for trading Vince. He was still considered a superstar and the fans loved him, so though it may have been the smartest and best trade, fans would have felt betrayed by the team, instead of ending up being betrayed by a player. When you have a player who is (as much as I hate to say it) very good, it is the GM's responsibility to try to keep him on the team. Unfortunately for us, that player wanted nothing to do with the team and ended up putting Babcock in an extremely difficult situation, which IMO he handled as well as he could have.
You can't anticipate that a player, who is bound by contract to play, would come out and demand a trade so forcefully. Everyone in Toronto loved him, who would have thought VC would resort to being a complete asshat. There is absoloutely no way you could have predicted the way Carter would react, even thinking you could is ludicrous. I mean, that isn't the sort of stuff that happens everyday, nevermind to a rookie GM. Sure a lot of players ask for trades, but not that many would stoop so low as to actually sabotaging the team. Anyone who actually thought that Babs was to blame for the Vince ordeal, needs a psychiatrist.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MAKEOUTCITY:</div><div class="quote_post">I don't give a crap, it still and will never make up for the Carter trade.</div> Because a player with the reputation of being a whiner and VERY soft, also tabbed as being HIGHLY injury prone making 14million a season, sitting out 4th quarters because of lack of effort, visibly not trying AT ALL in games is worth more than 2 first rounders and some add ins? At the time Eric Williams was playing well too. It didnt transfer but the williams' were exactly the type's of players we needed, hard workers and defense oriented. The only arguement that could be made is that he should of been traded before the season started, but Babs was obviously optomisitic that Carter was gunna change his mind and stay. And if not, at least put up good numbers to increase his value to what Babcock was asking for. If Vince had of played the way he did AS SOON as he was traded to New Jersey how long do you think he would of had to of waited for Babcock to deal him? Not Very long at all. Assuming of course that Vince was adament about being traded while mantaining his quality of play. Besides..we all know Vince. He's melo and doesnt really speak his mind as often as he should. I think its entirely possible that while he was "demanding a trade" during the off season it went something sorta like this" Carter-i mean i want to play i want to be here its just not working out Babs-we're doing this and this and this and it'll be great but we need you onboard Carter-ya ok i see that, but i just want to start over Babs-and you can with a new team, young faces we'll rebuild for your prime Carter-ya maybe. I still think i'd like a trade..but whatever Babs made a good trade. CV + a first rounder + improved salary cap future for Vince. YES.
Actually, Joey Graham was the player that we got with the Philly pick. We drafted CV with our own pick.
