I want to see Diogu start. I want to see him get more minutes than just 7 minutes he played last night. I was so disappointed because this was my first chance to see Diogu live and he barely played. He had one nice dunk that rattled down and an off balance jumper that bricked from 8 ft. I was really hoping to see him play more minutes, but since the 4th quarter grinded to a halt no one really subbed out because no one was running. I really want to see this lineup... Baron Jrich Dunleavy Diogu Murphy
i wouldn't mind seeing that same lineup, but i dunno if that's enough size. foyle's nothing special, but his presence definately helps us out in the frontcourt. i agree about ike getting more minutes though, last night was definately his most inactive game so far, and he didn't even play poorly.
Fans of any team, but particularly Warriors fans, have a problem of always wanting to see the unseen...always thinking the grass is greener on the other side. When you step back and look at the big picture, you see the same pattern over and over again. Jamison, Hughes, Richardson, Murphy, Dunleavy, Pietrus, Biedrins, and Diogu have all been the golden boy for this franchise at some point over the last four years. With the exception of Diogu, all of them have been kicked to the curb by fans at some other point. Fans wanted them replaced with a shiny new player the team had recently acquired. Don't get seduced by potential. Diogu is a good player with the potential to turn into a great one. But the same could be said about every other player mentioned above. Just like every other rookie, he needs to learn how to play in the NBA. Now when the Warriors drafted him, he was more polished than Biedrins or Pietrus, but he missed most of the preseason and the first 12 games. That, combined with the fact that the Warriors have hardly had a day off to practice means that Diogu is WAY behind where he should be in terms of knowing the Warriors offensive and defensive sets. Diogu will be the first one to tell you this. Trust me, barring injury or trade, it's going to be a long time before Diogu starts consistently, and it almost definitely won't happen any time this year. Warrior fans may not like Foyle because of how ugly his game is, but he's extremely important to the starting line up. Montgomery has designed his defense around having a big shot blocker in the middle that the other four defenders can rely on. Murphy certainly couldn't take Foyle's place there and Diogu, while a very good shot blocker for his size, is still undersized. Besides, the Warriors have enough scorers in the starting line up, they need more scorers coming off the bench. With the way Fisher is shooting the ball right now, I love the inside/outside game that he and Diogu can provide when they're in the game together. Each is going to make the game easier for the other.
Man Walker, you are such a sour puss. The difference between Biedrens and Pietrus etc, etc is that Diogu is READY to start right now based purely off his ability and IQ. I think we can simplify things for him like we did for Baron when he first got here and just let them play. Slowly we can start to incorporate other plays etc and get this guy on the court. He is physically ready and he can flat out play...
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Warriorfansnc93:</div><div class="quote_post">Man Walker, you are such a sour puss. The difference between Biedrens and Pietrus etc, etc is that Diogu is READY to start right now based purely off his ability and IQ. I think we can simplify things for him like we did for Baron when he first got here and just let them play. Slowly we can start to incorporate other plays etc and get this guy on the court. He is physically ready and he can flat out play...</div> Wtwalker's merely pointing out that Ike Diogu is still an unknown to us in some facets of the game. It's too early to judge. Plus, the other 4 guys have to get used to what Diogu's tendencies are.
I agree with WtWalker here. Warriors fans are always wanting changes and if something gets done then theres another thing that must be fixed. Diogu has only played 5 games, he still has alot of learning to do even though he is pretty polished. I'd say the absolute soonest he starts is after the all-star break and thats only if he plays great and Foyle plays horribly. Again, hes onlny played 5 NBA games, he'll earn a starting job over a decent amount of time just like everyone else (except Dun).
I also agree with Walker. It's much too premature to be thinking, "start Diogu now!" The W's benefit more by having him come off the bench. I think NBA rookies, for the most part, will benefit by learning the game slowly...this can be said about any profession or skill.
I don't care who starts but the center position needs to be addressed. For everything Foyle does good, he'll even things out by doing something stupid. He shot 5 for 5 the other night. That was good but gave up boneheaded 3 point plays. I was stunned a ten year vet made those ridiculous fouls. Foyle didn't do this one time but 3 and that wasn't even including his final foul when he fouled Miller on the 3 point line. To his credit he has come up with some crucial plays but either than blocking shots, you cannot count on this guy to do anything consistently. He's never been able to make decisions on a basketball court and never will. Our choices lie with inserting Diogu, Biedrins or Taft. Taft has been put on the inactive list due to him being out of game shape. Biedrins is a complete spaz and until learns more, I wouldn't even think of starting him. Out of the 3, Diogu is the most skilled, knows the most basketball and is capable of putting up double figures every night. I'm hoping Biedrins cuts out all the fouls. It's starting to get ridiculous.
So I guess what everyone is saying is that considering everything you dont think Diogu could produce more consistently than Foyle or Murphy?
He should have the ability to start eventually during the season, but knowing Monty, he won't change diddly squat unless someone is injured. Any other coach would have benched Dunleavy during his long streak of bad games and start Pietrus but Monty lacked the stones to do so. At THIS moment, he should come off the bench, but should see 20-30 mins a night. Not 7 measily minutes... I'd like to see him start in the future.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Warriorfansnc93:</div><div class="quote_post">So I guess what everyone is saying is that considering everything you dont think Diogu could produce more consistently than Foyle or Murphy?</div> I think everyone thinks that Diogu could produce more than Murphy or Foyle could, but it's too early in the game. We need to evaluate Ike over time just like we do with our other guys like Pietrus and Biedrins. Since Foyle and Murphy aren't going anywhere soon we're stuck with playing them and also if they are benched they'd probably start complaining about why they lost their jobs to a rookie. We've been able to win with Foyle and Murph, so it's not like Ike needs to start right away. We tried that with Dunleavy starting right away and it didn't work. It's better to move them rooks in slowly, find out when they are ready and then when the right opportunity comes along, we can deal a veteran starter and claim we're giving up a "starter". I think on a winning team, Foyle, Murphy and any other player looks more attractive and we can point out that those players made some huge improvements to their game. I would hold off on trading Murphy unless theres clearly an upgrade at that position or we get a better player in return. Also I want to see how well we do in playoffs this year (if we get there) before we start doing any radical changes to our lineup.
I didn't watch the game, but it seemed like the starters played a majority of the game along with Fisher, and I think the reason was that the Kings game was a pretty big game, and in the end Monty shortened the lineup and chose experience to get the W. I guess he doesn't trust the less experienced players in a big yet, plus the starters were playing very well last night. Usually the warriors start off a bit slow, and Monty will look to the bench.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AnimeFANatic:</div><div class="quote_post">He should have the ability to start eventually during the season, but knowing Monty, he won't change diddly squat unless someone is injured. Any other coach would have benched Dunleavy during his long streak of bad games and start Pietrus but Monty lacked the stones to do so. At THIS moment, he should come off the bench, but should see 20-30 mins a night. Not 7 measily minutes... I'd like to see him start in the future.</div> Pietrus was clearly better than Dunleavy during the beginning of the year. Some of that has to do with Pietrus' activity: rebounding, defense and scoring and the rest has to do with how miserable Dunleavy played. As of now I'd still go with Dunleavy rather than Pietrus. He is signed to the big extension and backing away from your investment after 15 games would destroy all of Dunleavy's confidence. If Pietrus can learn to score without relying on driving and shooting the three, he should start. That's a big if but he toned down his insanity and Monty did reward him with more minutes until he got hurt.
Its been 5 games. Diogu isnt even in game shape yet, hes played a total of 76 minutes in the NBA. I'm not saying Foyle is better but seriously this is crazy for a rookie who has barely played an hour of NBA ball and still isnt 100%. CALM DOWN he'll get his run.
You can tell this guy is better than Foyle already with as little as he has played. Granted I might be over reacting, but I think we are too cautious with our young guys. What is this guy is Brand lite? How long are we going to suffer under Foyle or Murphy when this kid could be matching or playing better than those guys...
I would want Diogu to start because I am not happy with Murphy or Foyle some games. Then if Diogu starts I might not be happy with some things that he does either. But since I've been a long time fan of hustle players that show results and make others better (no matter what their methods), I think I'd probably give Ike the Barnett treatment in that he can do no wrong. I think we need to improve SF, PF, C, but we can't just turnover our entire roster. I would subscribe to the REREM lineup. pg: Baron Davis sg: Jason Richardson sf: Mickael Pietrus (catch and shoot, cut to the rim) pf: Ike Diogu c: Troy Murphy Sure our inside defense would suck, but we upgrade our perimeter defense a bit and solve our rebounding a bit. When Biedrins is ready I think he'd be our new double double guy to replace Murphy and possibly by then he develops a consistent midrange shot or some post game. Pietrus would drive a lot more than Dunleavy and get us to the foul line more often. Plus he's a great finisher in the open court and hitting the 3-ball when we've got no choice to throw it up (sort of like Fisher).
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting upsidedownside7:</div><div class="quote_post">I don't care who starts but the center position needs to be addressed. For everything Foyle does good, he'll even things out by doing something stupid. He shot 5 for 5 the other night. That was good but gave up boneheaded 3 point plays. I was stunned a ten year vet made those ridiculous fouls. Foyle didn't do this one time but 3 and that wasn't even including his final foul when he fouled Miller on the 3 point line. To his credit he has come up with some crucial plays but either than blocking shots, you cannot count on this guy to do anything consistently. He's never been able to make decisions on a basketball court and never will. Our choices lie with inserting Diogu, Biedrins or Taft. Taft has been put on the inactive list due to him being out of game shape. Biedrins is a complete spaz and until learns more, I wouldn't even think of starting him. Out of the 3, Diogu is the most skilled, knows the most basketball and is capable of putting up double figures every night. I'm hoping Biedrins cuts out all the fouls. It's starting to get ridiculous.</div> In Foyle's defense, that foul on Miller for three free throws has a lot to do with Miller's ability to hit the three point shot and not Foyle's inability to hold himself back. It was a great fake by Miller.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting custodianrules2:</div><div class="quote_post"> pg: Baron Davis sg: Jason Richardson sf: Mickael Pietrus (catch and shoot, cut to the rim) pf: Ike Diogu c: Troy Murphy Sure our inside defense would suck, but we upgrade our perimeter defense a bit and solve our rebounding a bit. When Biedrins is ready I think he'd be our new double double guy to replace Murphy and possibly by then he develops a consistent midrange shot or some post game.</div> No, this is very bad. Okay, first of all, I subscribe to keeping the same starting five we have now until someone dies or gets traded. Consistency is key to building good team chemistry. If you start f*cking around with the lineups, people will start to whine and cry about their roles and minutes. You're right, with that lineup, our defense would suck. In fact, I'd like Monty to go to this lineup so everyone here will see how valuable Foyle is defensively. Our 11-6 record is because of the defense. Taking Foyle out and putting Murphy at C would be a huge defensive liability. Look, IMO, it's not important who starts but who FINISHES the game. A lot of times, Foyle and Dunleavy are NOT in the game when the final buzzer sounds off...take that for what it's worth.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Kensaku:</div><div class="quote_post"> Look, IMO, it's not important who starts but who FINISHES the game. A lot of times, Foyle and Dunleavy are NOT in the game when the final buzzer sounds off...take that for what it's worth.</div> Damn you just had to bring up two of the team's most overpaid players. At least Dunleavy can only get better (hopefully). So who are our finishers outside the starting lineup? Fisher? Pietrus? Pietrus better get some love this upcoming season.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting upsidedownside7:</div><div class="quote_post">Pietrus was clearly better than Dunleavy during the beginning of the year. Some of that has to do with Pietrus' activity: rebounding, defense and scoring and the rest has to do with how miserable Dunleavy played. As of now I'd still go with Dunleavy rather than Pietrus. He is signed to the big extension and backing away from your investment after 15 games would destroy all of Dunleavy's confidence. If Pietrus can learn to score without relying on driving and shooting the three, he should start. That's a big if but he toned down his insanity and Monty did reward him with more minutes until he got hurt.</div> If I were the coach I'd have benched Dunleavy until his heart started beating again. True, his confidence would be destroyed instead of him trying harder to get his starting spot back, because he lacks aggressiveness. Basically all our starters are big investments, Foyle + Murph + Dunleavy equal one huge sum of money. And if being paid big money means they deserve to start to coach Monty... well sucks for the fans.
