<div class="quote_poster">Quoting custodianrules2:</div><div class="quote_post">Damn you just had to bring up two of the team's most overpaid players. At least Dunleavy can only get better (hopefully). So who are our finishers outside the starting lineup? Fisher? Pietrus? Pietrus better get some love this upcoming season.</div> Well, it looks like Dunleavy is starting to turn it around. Maybe he'll become the triple-double threat I've always dreamed he'd become... Just kidding. Well, Foyle isn't really overpaid. He's a center and plays defense...what more can you ask for? What better center is there that could possibly do the same that we could realistically obtain?
At this point, I am really against benching Foyle for few reasons. 1. Foyle is our toughest defender against inside scorers by far. Really, guys like Murphy and Taft gets schooled against post up players bit too easily, Biedrins will pick up 6 fouls in 6 seconds, if somebody post him up, and Diogu still haven't shown enough evidence that he will be as effective as Foyle in terms of individual defense in inside. IMO, there is subtential drop off after Foyle in post up defense. 2. Foyle is also our best help defender by far. How many times do we see other players making uncontested lay ups or dunks once they passed their defender and Foyle isn't at the position to challenge the shot? Murphy has zero help defense, and Dunleavy's best help defense is taking an occassional charge. Foyle is our best blocker by far (3.17 blk per game / 48 mins. Second is Taft with 2.75 blk per game / 48 mins and third is Biedrins with 1.5o blk per game), and this year is actually Foyle's down year in terms of block (4.45 in 04-05, 3.86 in 03-04, and 5.51 in 02-03. All in 48 mins scale), so he may improve his block numbers during the season. 3. Dunleavy is starting to produce and Pietrus is injured. Diogu is offensive player with instant scoring ability and Foyle is defense specialist with no offensive capability. So, why do we have to substitute one of few offensive weapon from the bench for the only starting memeber who doesn't need a ball in his hand and bring defense pressure, which none of other starting members can bring? Even if Diogu become a starter, there is no guarentee that he will actually produce more when Davis, Richardson, and Murhphy will be primary scorers. Also, that leaves Fisher as the only scorer from the bench. If our starting line up is struggling from scoring, then we may consider putting additional scoring punch. But, until that time... 4. Like WT said, let's not carried away by excitement Diogu brought so far. It's not like playing from the bench for a season or two will seriously hinder Diogu's development. Yes, I would like to see Diogu in action just like any other Warriors fans. But, Diogu still has A LOT to learn, and he is playing reserve role very nicely. Also, inserting Diogu to starting line up really does not add anything substential. Let's start Diogu to starting line up campaign when there is an obvious reason for that...
We have had a LOT of games where Murphy actually played a lot as the C,or where Pietrus minutes were more than Dunleavy's. Who brings the most good stuff gets the minutes. Otherwise we"d still have Bimbo Coles starting. If Murphy is in either way, We are looking at the differences in Foyle and Diogu. Foyle is about 2" taller,about 5-10lb heavier,even longer wingspan,but Ike is much more agile,much better hands and a better shooter/scorer. The Sac game,unlike the rest of this year's,was mostly the starters + Fish. You can bet that Ike,Fish,Pietrus will pay big minutes either way,and if Foyle,Dun don't start,they also will still play a lot. Monty has put almost every possible combo on the floor so far. If a combo proves to be the best overall,eventually that's the main unit,and likely also the starters. We have seen that with minutes,Pietrus makes an impact,can score 20+ and play nice D. We all noticed how Ike has some big time skills in the paint,even if his experiance on the floor is minimal. Even without the whole process of assimilation,Ike,with starter minute,would seem able to get 15-25 pts most games. Once you have a rising talent you can say will often score 20+ and will bring good D,bring energy,pick up the pace,create matchup advantages...whatever,you make a change. If our best talent package is a bit more offense,or D,is bigger,or faster,is not the main thing,it's who IS the best talent package.
At the end of the game, we should finish the game with our best package at that day. However, at the beginning of the game, there should be some sort of defense presense in the starting line up. By inserting Diogu instead of Foyle, we certainly gets more fire power immidiately. However, last thing we want to see is other players making few layups and dunks in early, get some confidence in that game and start to bomb from outside all night long. That's why teams like Spurs or Miami starts with Bowen and Haslim, when Finley and Walker are better players. Without Foyle, other players will roll to the basket without much resistance as soon as they beat the defender, because there is basically no help defense. If Diogu challenges for starting job in future, it should be Murphys' starting PF...
Are people serious about this? Foyle should most definitely not be benched. Kwan you're dead on. the guy that eventually will be replaced by Ike is Murphy believe it or not. But that's still a season or 2 away (Unless a major trade happens). Scoring is not how the center position should be judged for this team. In fact, if there was a half way decent defender next to Adonal, he'd probably be up for defensive player of the year becaue he'd get so many help side blocks since the 4 would actually have to work to get to the rim and Foyle could be in position for the block.
Couple of things that haven't been discussed much: 1. If and when Montgomery decides to permanently change the starting line up and Foyle is the one that goes to the bench, I absolutely believe it will be Biedrins or Taft that replaces him, not Diogu. Biedrins has a similar game to Foyle, and has the size to play center. And, like Foyle, he doesn't need the ball to be effective, something not to be under looked when Davis, Richardson, and Murphy are also on the floor. Taft has the size to play center, and probably the best combination of offense and defense of the three young big men (Taft, Biedrins, and Diogu). I was not a Taft fan at all before the draft, but he hasn't shown me any of the attitude problems or lack of effort that was the rap on him coming out of Pitt. At this point, I'd say he's actually the one of the three that's the closest to starting. 2. Warriorfansnc93, while I'm not really questioning Diogu's basketball IQ, it isn't like he learned the finer points of playing the low post while at ASU. Diogu has said that his role in the ASU offense was basically to go down and post up (I looked for the article, but it was from espn local and no longer available). Diogu could pick up the offense quickly, but there's nothing to say he will. Montgomery has said that the team runs a simplified offense whenever Diogu is on the court. He wasn't able to pick it up in the preseason because of the injury, and the Warriors haven't had any meaningful practice time in November because of the number of games they played during that month. The fact alone that they can't run their full offense when Diogu is on the floor should preclude him from starting until he's adept in the offensive and defensive schemes. Look, Diogu missed about six weeks with the broken hand. He missed approximately 14 days of practice in the preseason along with the 7 preseason games they played, where he most likely would have gotten 15-20 minutes a game. He's going to need at least that much time to get to the point he should have been to begin the season. That's going to take awhile, coaches can't have teaching practices during the season the way they can during the preseason. because they're usually too busy preparing for the next game. The same goes for playing Diogu in games. During the season Montgomery can't put Diogu in there and let him make his mistakes the way he could in a game that didn't matter. That's why Diogu didn't get minutes against the Kings, he simply doesn't know enough to start or play significant minutes, and it's going to be a long time before he does. I don't mean to be harsh and I don't mean to be a sourpuss, but I do mean to inject a dose of reality regarding Diogu. I really like the guy, he was who I wanted the Warriors to draft. It's for that very reason that I don't want to see fans have unreasonable expectations for him, and then cast him aside the day he plays and doesn't live up to expectations.
Good points, Walker. A lot of people need to understand how young the W's are (I think most do). With youth, everyone needs to be patient. Even the "veterans" are young guys, so they need to be playing together as much as possible. I think as much as the W's want to develop their younger guys like Biedrins, Diogu, Monta Ellis, and co., they need to be consistent, and consistently win. I think starting Diogu at this point would be bad for team chemistry as far as rotations and roles go. It would also be bad for an inside defensive presence if Foyle is the one ousted.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting upsidedownside7:</div><div class="quote_post">Pietrus was clearly better than Dunleavy during the beginning of the year. Some of that has to do with Pietrus' activity: rebounding, defense and scoring and the rest has to do with how miserable Dunleavy played. As of now I'd still go with Dunleavy rather than Pietrus. He is signed to the big extension and backing away from your investment after 15 games would destroy all of Dunleavy's confidence. If Pietrus can learn to score without relying on driving and shooting the three, he should start. That's a big if but he toned down his insanity and Monty did reward him with more minutes until he got hurt.</div> ? yeah we don't want him driving to the hoop and drawing fouls, he needs to tone that down. lol!!!
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting jzblaze:</div><div class="quote_post">? yeah we don't want him driving to the hoop and drawing fouls, he needs to tone that down. lol!!!</div> Hey jzblaze change of subject, but remember when you were hating on Josh Howard and you said his name shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence as Joe Johnson? Anyway, I remember it because you made such a big deal out of it one time and I was like damn... what is up? Josh Howard has been looking pretty sweet so far wouldn't you say? The guy was playing like Shawn Marion until he got hurt.
