12/6 Boston College @ Michigan State

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<font color=""Darkred"">Boston College Eagles</font> @ <font color=""Darkgreen"">Michigan State Spartans</font>


Date? December 6, 2005
When? 8:30 PM EST
Where? ESPN</div>

<font color=""DarkRed""><div align="center">Boston College Eagles:</div></font>

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(Louis Hinnant, Sean Marshall, Jared Dudley, Craig Smith, John Oates) </div>

Boston College's starting lineup is one of the most talented in the nation, but they really haven't been tested yet. Their 6-0, but their only quality win at this point is against Oklahoma State and they came down to the wire against Drake. They've also been plagued by depth problems, largely because forward Sean Williams was suspended from the team earlier this year. Still, Jared Dudley and Craig Smith are two of the top forwards in the entire nation. Smith, a preseason All-American, has been inconsistent so far this season, not showing against the few decent teams that Boston College has played, but Dudley is looking like a candidate for Big East Player of the Year. The Eagles will need a great performance from both of them tonight if they want the win.

<div align="center"><font color=""DarkGreen"">Michigan State Spartans:</font>

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<div align="center">(Drew Neitzel, Shannon Brown, Maurice Ager, Marquise Gray, Paul Davis)</div>

The Spartans started off the season on an off note, but recently they've rebounded recently with wins over #8 Arizona and Georgia Tech, showing why they were a preseason top five team. Both Paul Davis (21.0 ppg, 10.4 rpg) and Maurice Ager (21.7 ppg, 2.6 apg) have emerged as legit All-American candidates, maybe even Wooden Award candidates. Still, the Spartans need to go to Shannon Brown more. Probably the most talented player on the team, Brown almost always delivers when the Spartans go to him, but right now he's still their third offensive option behind Davis and Ager. Bench play will also be key for the Spartans this season. While their core of Neitzel, Brown, Ager, and Davis is one of the best in the nation, their bench is young and innexperienced. The Spartans will need big games from players like Marquise Gray, Goran Suton, and Travis Walton if they want to win this game.

Prediction: 86-85 Michigan State - Michigan State looks like the more talented team on paper and should win this one. Most people would have told you this summer that Craig Smith would get the best of Paul Davis in the post, giving BC the edge, but Davis has performed like the best big man in the nation so far this season, which I think will ultimately give Michigan State the edge. It should be a close game though. Michigan State has played to the level of their competition lately, only beating Arkansas Little Rock by five points and Georgia Tech by two points. It's not that they're not talented, but they just make stupid mistakes and get careless with the basketball when they get a comfortable lead.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"><div align="center"><font color=""DarkGreen"">Michigan State Spartans:</font>
<a href="http://imageshack.us" target="_blank"> If I was a Mod, I'd edit those pics so they would be even, but I'm not

 

First of all great preview VC!

Great win if your a Michigan State fan for a couple reasons. First it's great to see Matt Trannon's physical play back in the post. He'll need a couple games to get the rust off but it's good to see him back from football. Also nobody on Michigan State really had that big of a day other than Paul Davis or Mo Ager, you should feel good in the tourny that these two alone can knock off a top ten team. I'm not saying the other players didn't contribute, they did, just not on the offensive end of the floor.

 

Nice preview, and a HUGE win for MSU last night-this is a big statement to all the people who are down on them for the Hawaii loss.

BTW, that's a great picture of Drew Naymick...or should I say Marquise Gray

 

I really liked what Boston College was able to do to Michigan State. They slowed down the pace and just took the Spartans out of their game, which in turn took Shannon Brown out of his game. If you would have told me before the game that Brown would have an off night and BC would get the best of Davis on the glass, then there's no way I would have thought the Spartans could win, but Maurice Ager played like an All-American again last night. He didn't force it as much as he did against Georgia Tech and Arkansas Little Rock; he just played the type of ball we were used to seeing him play last season. Neitzel was also huge for the Spartans. So far this season he's in the top 25 in the nation in assists with about 6.0 apg, and that's more than I could ask for from him.

 

I figured you would be impressed Marquise Gray, because I know I sure was. He was very aggressive in the paint and he even exploded to the basket a few times. I believe Izzo should insert him in the starting lineup next game, but that's just me...I pretty much agree with everything Voodoo said; Ager played his best game of the year, IMO(didn't force shots like he had in the past few games)...

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post">I think Gray should continue coming off the bench. He gives them a post scorer when Davis comes out, and if Davis gets into foul trouble they have luxury of using him. Plus he's just abusing other team's second units when he gets into the mix.</div>

I disagree. Marquise Gray is really impressing me. He's an NBA talent (of course four years down the road), and he'd be great as a starter. He really does everything that Drew Naymick doesn't do, and it showed last night. He's tough, tenacious, and always plays hard. You don't get that out of Suton or Naymick, who are more likely to miss a wide open layup than grab a rebound.

Preferrably, I'd like to start Trannon. I definitely want his experience towards the end of the season, but Trannon will probably have to wait until Big Ten play for his chance to start, because he's still looking a little lost out there. It's hard to make the transition from football to basketball in less than a week. He went from playing against Penn State's football team to playing against Boston College's basketball team in such a short time span it's amazing, and he's been effective in both sports.

 

It was a good win for MSU. However I would have loved to see BC play MSU with their full squad. MSU would not have shot 77% from the field if Sean Williams would have played. It seemed at times that BC did not play aggressive on D because they were afraid of getting into foul trouble. Craig Smith committed his first foul midway through the 2nd half. BC didnt do bad on the offensive end except for the MSU run midway thorugh the second half. Once Sean Marshall got into foul trouble, BC could not match up athletically aginst MSU.

IM still waiting to see Craig Smith's so called "much improved J". He front- rimmed everything outside of 8 ft. Paul Davis is a good ball player but I see Eric Montross out there. He should have came out after his sophomore year. His stock may have risen this year but it will not be as high as it was two years ago. He gets a lot of his numbers because he happens to be a legit 6 11 Center with some skills. You cant name 3 centers in the country with heigh, build and skill. In the league, I dont see him doing too much. I was impressed with Ager. However, for someone who has a 46 inch verticle, he doesnt use it to his advantage. When you think of Vince Carter and AI boasting 40-42 inch verticals whle MJ and Dominique had 48 inchers, you expect to see more for Ager. It comes out once in awhile. Brown has a 40 inch vertical but he seems to use it more effectively. For all of you MSU fans think Jason Richardson. He is no JR. Ager played great that night though. Jared Dudley has proven once again that he is a monster who should generate a lot of 1st team all american votes this year and next. I would love to see him in an open offense. Imagine if he played for Arizona or Florida. He would avg 20 pts by accident.

MSU proved that they will be a force to be reckoned with while BC needs to step their game up. And with the additions of Sean Williams and Akida McClain within the next couple of weeks, they will at least be deeper heading into ACC play. See you in March.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting HASAN33:</div><div class="quote_post">It was a good win for MSU. However I would have loved to see BC play MSU with their full squad. MSU would not have shot 77% from the field if Sean Williams would have played. It seemed at times that BC did not play aggressive on D because they were afraid of getting into foul trouble.</div>

You can throw "what if's" out there just as much as a Michigan State fan could:

The game could have easily been a much uglier loss for Boston College if this wasn't starting Power Forward Matt Trannon's first real game of the season. The Spartans had trouble at the four because Trannon is just coming off a season of Big Ten football and hasn't fully adjusted to basketball yet, but you don't think Boston College would have gotten so many rebounds if Trannon was ready for a serious role, do you? Then there's Shannon Brown. What if Brown played to his potential? The kid's one of the top talents in the NCAA, but he played horribly against Boston College and made a lot of stupid mistakes. He's been inconsistent this season. If he was on, it could have been a blowout for the Spartans.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Paul Davis is a good ball player but I see Eric Montross out there. He should have came out after his sophomore year. His stock may have risen this year but it will not be as high as it was two years ago. He gets a lot of his numbers because he happens to be a legit 6 11 Center with some skills. You cant name 3 centers in the country with heigh, build and skill. In the league, I dont see him doing too much. </div>

I don't know how much you've seen from Davis, but I wouldn't form my opinion about him based on one game. Calling him Eric Montross is a joke and an insult to the kid's game. He doesn't just get his points because of his height. In fact, he gets a lot of his points from the perimeter. He's got one of the best midrange jumpers in all of basketball for a big guy, and he's perfect from outside this season (3-3). Not to mention that he's shooting over 87% from the line (100% not considering the Hawaii, Chaminade, and Georgia Tech games).

People attacked him last season for his intensity, athleticism, and his rebounding, but he's really proved all of those people wrong this season. He's playing with more intensity than any other player on the team. He's played through cramps and a blow to the head, and on several occasions he's jumped out of bounds to save the ball. He's also looking a lot quicker and more athletic this season. Mostly against IPFW and Arkansas LR he had a lot of plays that showed this off, but against Georgia Tech he had a reverse layup that looked like something you'd expect out of Maurice Ager. As for his rebounding, he did poorly against Boston College, but he's averaging 10.0 rpg on the year, including 13 rebounds on Gonzaga. Unlike last season, he's getting really good positioning on rebounds and following his misses.

Maybe Davis' stock would have been at an all-time high out of High School or after a year or two in college, but his game would have suffered. He's the prime example of a player who has been helped by four years of college basketball. If he keeps playing the way he's played so far this season, then he'll be a lottery pick this June.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I was impressed with Ager. However, for someone who has a 46 inch verticle, he doesnt use it to his advantage. When you think of Vince Carter and AI boasting 40-42 inch verticals whle MJ and Dominique had 48 inchers, you expect to see more for Ager. It comes out once in awhile. Brown has a 40 inch vertical but he seems to use it more effectively. </div>

I really don't get how you can say he doesn't use his athleticism to his advantage. The guy's averaging about twenty-two points per game and he just led his team to two victories over top ten teams, so he's obviously doing something right.

Also, are you sure about Brown's vertical leap? I'm almost positive you've gotten bad information on that one, because there's no way Ager jumps six inches higher than Shannon Brown. I remember reading that Brown had over a 45 inch vertical, and from what I've seen, that's about accurate. If he's not the top athlete in the NCAA, he's definitely one of the top ten. He had a horrible game last night; it probably ranks up there as one of the worst performances of his career, but his athleticism has really been on display in most other games this season. Didn't you see him in the McDonald's All-American dunk contest versus LeBron James in 2003? He would have won it if he didn't miss his first dunk. The near free-throw line 360 statue of liberty dunk he did was one of the best I've seen in years.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">For all of you MSU fans think Jason Richardson. He is no JR. Ager played great that night though.</div>

What Michigan State fans are thinking Jason Richardson? They're completely different players. Richardson isn't as good of a shooter as Ager is, but he's a lot quick and stronger than Ager. They both have a great work ethic though. Jason Richardson is a warrior in uniform, but Ager's a warrior in spirit. The kid carried a bullet in his leg through almost all of his high school career because he didn't have the money to get it removed after being shot.

What do you mean by "Ager played great that night though"? As if he didn't play good every other night this year? Didn't you see his 36 point performance against Adam Morrison earlier this season?

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Jared Dudley has proven once again that he is a monster who should generate a lot of 1st team all american votes this year and next. I would love to see him in an open offense. Imagine if he played for Arizona or Florida. He would avg 20 pts by accident. </div>

I don't see how playing on Arizona or Florida would benefit Dudley, because he's not a great one on one type of player, and he doesn't really create too many plays for himself. If anything, being on Boston College really benefits him. You act like Boston College is too stacked with talent for him to put up great numbers.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">See you in March.</div>

Um... in March my money's still on the Spartans. They've got two national titles, and have been to four Final Fours in seven years. Not to mention that right now they're only beginning to show what they can do on the year. They're still not playing up to their potential. When this group can finally gell together, they'll be dangerous.

 

Wow, Dudley wouldn't do **** on Zona right now, they just blow.

 

You bring up some Good points Voodoo Child. However you have jumped the gun and missedd certain points that I was trying to make. I probably watch more basketball, pro and college, than the average person because that is my job. I saw Mich State and Gonzaga in Hawaii go at it up close and personal because I was there front and center. I did not take anything away from the Michigan State win. All I said Was that would like to see BC with its full compliment of players. You brought Trannon. He is a solid player but he not a player like Williams who can change the entire game defensively by just being on the court. Shot blockers have been known to do that. I gave credit P Davis but his game is very similar to Montross. I played against Montross in college and he is very lumbering. Davis is not as slow or lumbering but he is very methodical in his movements. While he is indeed faster this year, he is still not that fast. I saw two of MSU's game in Hawaii. I couldnt get out there for the Hawii game but I saw AZ and Gonzaga. He is a pro. But he sometimes he does not use his athleticism to his advantage like Jason Richardson. I did not compare JR's game and Ager's game. Did I? No. I compared their athleticism. I said to think about JR and then think about Ager in terms of their jumping ability. Thats it. Did I break down their shooting, their passign, defense? No I did not. J Dudley could create his own offense if given the opportunity. Skinner puts him on short leash at times. How many players can post up and also play an outside game the way he does. There are some but not many . I brought UP AZ and Florida because they are fast breaking teams. He loves the break but damn their offense is a half court offense. The only time I saw Dudley out of his element was the Under 21 trials this summer. He completely sucked. By the way official vertical listings for S Brown 41 1/2 Ager 44.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">All I said Was that would like to see BC with its full compliment of players. You brought Trannon. He is a solid player but he not a player like Williams who can change the entire game defensively by just being on the court. Shot blockers have been known to do that. </div>

You're missing my point though. I wasn't so much saying that Michigan State would have been better with a full strength Matt Trannon as I was saying that you were throwing out too many what-if's.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I gave credit P Davis but his game is very similar to Montross. I played against Montross in college and he is very lumbering. Davis is not as slow or lumbering but he is very methodical in his movements. While he is indeed faster this year, he is still not that fast. I saw two of MSU's game in Hawaii. I couldnt get out there for the Hawii game but I saw AZ and Gonzaga. He is a pro.</div>

I could definitely see the comparison to Montross in Davis' first two and a half years at Michigan State, but this season he has looked nothing like Eric Montross. I respect that you've played against Montross and have seen Davis up close and personal, but I've seen Davis up close as well, probably upwards of twenty times. While I've never played against Montross, I know the guy's game well, and this year the comparison is just off.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">But he sometimes he does not use his athleticism to his advantage like Jason Richardson. I did not compare JR's game and Ager's game. Did I? No. I compared their athleticism. I said to think about JR and then think about Ager in terms of their jumping ability. Thats it. Did I break down their shooting, their passign, defense? No I did not. </div>
No, but the way you worded it made it sounds like you were comparing the two players, not their athleticism.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">the way official vertical listings for S Brown 41 1/2 Ager 44.</div>

I've pretty much figured out that you're a former player and either a scout, writer, or something to that degree, but where'd you get these measurements? Everything I've read says that Brown has upwards of a 45 inch vertical, and HighSchoolElite.Com lists him at 46 inches. From what I've seen, 41 1/2 is selling him short.

 

I think all of you bring valid points to this. Thats the enigma of college basketball. We just dont know. Certain players and /or teams may turn out to be better than others. Only time will tell. WE can revisit this topic later in the season because we can go on and on. JustBball.com is one of the few bball websites where you can voice your opinion and others will respond without just speaking out of their a-ses and throwing opinions around without any facts to support them. Keep it up. You will be surprised who is looking at this website and who is participating on it as well.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting HASAN33:</div><div class="quote_post">I think all of you bring valid points to this. Thats the enigma of college basketball. We just dont know. Certain players and /or teams may turn out to be better than others. Only time will tell. WE can revisit this topic later in the season because we can go on and on. JustBball.com is one of the few bball websites where you can voice your opinion and others will respond without just speaking out of their a-ses and throwing opinions around without any facts to support them. Keep it up. You will be surprised who is looking at this website and who is participating on it as well.</div>

Wow, are you Spud Webb or something, if so I'll be shocked

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post">Thanks for the feedback on the site, I'm glad you and your peers can appreaciate the quality opinions coming from the community.

Not sure if you caught the MSU game tonight. Some interesting comparisons were made by Steve Lavin. He kept comparing Paul Davis's rebounding to Wes Unseld. He was impressed with the swooping action and the quick outlet pass after he secures the boards.

I thought Davis made some great defensive adjustments in the second half in the way he defended Miller from Wichita St.. In the 1st half, Miller was drawing him out and Paul didn't recognize his shooting ability from mid range. He scored 17 points on Davis, but in the 2nd half Davis shut him down and Miller only managed 4 more points the rest of the game.</div>

Sorry for not getting back to this sooner. I was on a little vacation with the fam. A friend of mines told me what Lavin said. We thought that was an hilarious comparison. We knew what he was trying to say though. Only time will tell with Davis. Will he develop into a decent center like a Brad Miller or will we have the second coming of Eric Montross. I heard he did well this past weekend but S Brown put a on a show.